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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    How many points did the Broncos put up in the 2nd half?
    This is a fair question to ask considering the Vikings average 26.3 points per game.

    However, the Broncos defense isnít suppose to give up 27 points in one half to Kirk Freaking Cousins. Who the hell is he? He isnít a great quarterback.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I wonít Back Down.
    No Matter How Stupid Your Comments Are!
    Still Not Backing Down!!!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Bill Belichick? Iíd say so.
    Bill , I'd argue, is not relating to his players. Bill is assimilating his players into his system. Basically Bill is running his team based on the "do you know who I am" philosophy. That is one way but it only works when you win and win a lot.

    Most other coaches who do well and have been doing well for a long time blend the winning, relatability and ego.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    This is a fair question to ask considering the Vikings average 26.3 points per game.

    However, the Broncos defense isnít suppose to give up 27 points in one half to Kirk Freaking Cousins. Who the hell is he? He isnít a great quarterback.
    Sorry...I missed your answer...I took it upon myself to look it up to be sure....the answer is 3 points. So before the offense wants to start poi ting fingers and other such nonsense...3 points in 2 halfs of a football game is unacceptable.

    Kirk has been playing pretty well as of late. So to fully generalize based on prior seasons overall stats while fair is not accurate this season....generally.

  4. #64
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    Offense is anemic. Defense gives up late leads. Special teams struggles with kicks. This is just not a great team right now.

    I really donít know or care how much merit there is to this article. For me, itís just another sign of organizational dysfunction.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    Sorry...I missed your answer...I took it upon myself to look it up to be sure....the answer is 3 points. So before the offense wants to start poi ting fingers and other such nonsense...3 points in 2 halfs of a football game is unacceptable.

    Kirk has been playing pretty well as of late. So to fully generalize based on prior seasons overall stats while fair is not accurate this season....generally.
    The Vikings scored four touchdowns in the second half while the Broncos had a 20-0 lead at the half. First time in 40 years thatís happened. Letís not forget Allen led the offense on a drive and McManus missed a FG. If McManus would have made the FG, Allen led the offense on a drive that would have given McManus a chip shot FG to win the game.

    At what point do you expect a defense with Von Miller, Chris Harris Jr and Kareem Jackson to make a play? Make one play to stop the Vikings. There are a lot of fans proclaiming Von Miller and Chris Harris Jr are elite players. Complete nonsense. Those guys havenít done a thing to close close games this season.

    The game was lost by a defense that cannot close games.

    Edit: Fangio is not the defensive genius many believe. Minnesotaís coaching staff made the adjustments at half and schooled Fangio.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 11-24-2019 at 10:27 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Fangio is not the defensive genius many believe. Minnesotaís coaching staff made the adjustments at half and schooled Fangio.
    This is absolute nonsense. Fangio has consistently had some of the top defenses in the NFL for multiple seasons. Including this year. It's not Fangio's fault for the defensive players failing to make a play in a couple games. His entire body of work shows that he is one of the top defensive minds in all of football right now.

    It's his first year in Denver and he already has them as a top 10 unit. After where we've been the past couple seasons, it should be clear to anyone that isn't bitter at how this year is going that Fangio is an excellent defensive coach.

    The D should be downright dominant next year after a full year of learning and understanding Fangio's defense. The offense still needs a lot of work, but this defense is ready to have us competing. That's Fangio's influence and I'm glad to have it.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    This is absolute nonsense. Fangio has consistently had some of the top defenses in the NFL for multiple seasons. Including this year. It's not Fangio's fault for the defensive players failing to make a play in a couple games. His entire body of work shows that he is one of the top defensive minds in all of football right now.

    It's his first year in Denver and he already has them as a top 10 unit. After where we've been the past couple seasons, it should be clear to anyone that isn't bitter at how this year is going that Fangio is an excellent defensive coach.

    The D should be downright dominant next year after a full year of learning and understanding Fangio's defense. The offense still needs a lot of work, but this defense is ready to have us competing. That's Fangio's influence and I'm glad to have it.
    Itís not uncommon for fans to overrate their coaches and roster talent. If the Broncos defense lost a late lead in a game or two maybe fans could point only to players. The defense looks good statistically but theyíve given up five late leads, one of which was an epic collapse. If scheme didnít matter they could put the players on the field and let a guy like Simmons call the plays without a coordinator.

    Hereís an excerpt from an article by Bill Zimmerman on Vic Fangio:

    ďWhile the theory behind this defense is sound, the problem is it doesnít create a winning formula, especially on this team (Bears). The two biggest problems with Fangioís defense is that a, it causes no turnovers, and b, it bends. What does this mean?

    First, the defense never causes a turnover and gives the Bearsí offense a short field. When you have an offense with deficiencies, you need to put them in a position to succeed. Thatís why Lovie Smithís defensive scheme worked well in Chicago. He wanted to create turnovers and give his mediocre offense a short field and help them get points. Fangio doesnít play the ball, he plays the playbook, which means reacting and not being in a position to make plays on the football.

    Yes, it gets punts, but usually after a first down or two. If a defense is complacent to bend and not play the ball, sure, they wonít allow a ton of points, but theyíll leave the offense consistently with 70, 80, or even 90 yards away from the end zone. No offense can consistently put up points like that, especially the one currently in Chicago.

    Fangio defenders will say Iím blaming the defense for the offenseís woes, but that is not what Iím doing, Iím saying that Fangioís defense is designed to look better statistically then it is in practice. Letís take a deeper dive into Vic Fangio defensive coordinator:

    Fangioís first gig as a defensive coordinator was under Dom Capers for four seasons for the expansion Carolina Panthers. Under Fangio, the defenseís yards per game was ranked 7th in year one, followed by 10th, 15th and then 30th. In 1995, there were 30 teams, not 32, so that 30th ranking was dead last. As for points per game, Fangioís defense was good early, but by year four, the team was 27th in the league. Needless to say, Fangio and Capers were fired after 1998 after the defense declined every year Fangio was there.

    Fangioís next stop was with the Indianapolis Colts from 1999 to 2001. What was the result? Year one, the defenseís points and yards ranked 17 and 15, year two, 15 and 21, year three, 29 and 28. Same results- a solid start, and a defense that steadily worsened during his tenure.

    Our next stop on the Fangio World Tour is the Houston Texans. Fangio had the defensive coordinator spot there from 2002-2005. Fangio was brought back by his old pal Dom Capers. He spent four years with the expansion Texans and never improved the defense, in fact, you guessed it, they steadily got worse. Those four-year rankings were 20/16, 27/31, 15/23, and 32/31. No surprise, after coaching the worst defense in the NFL, Fangio was fired.

    Fangio wasnít an NFL defensive coordinator again until 2011 where he had the position under Jim Harbaugh and held it for four years. Here is where he gained notoriety and had the most success of his career. Fangioís defense was a top 5 unit the first three years he was there and the unit was still a top ten unit in his final year when he left the team to join the Bears.

    In Chicago, Fangio took over a dreadful unit but has failed to finish in the top 20 in any season in points allowed and this year, the team is currently 25th. Statistically speaking, other than three dominant years in San Francisco, the resume doesnít read like one of a defensive guru.

    Besides the consistently underperforming defenses, thereís the question about turnovers. Hereís a look at Fangioís defenses in the takeaway department and where that ranks.

    2017 (thru 5 games)- 3, 29th
    2016- 11, 32nd
    2015- 17, 28th
    2014 (SF)- 29, 4th
    2013-30, 6th
    2012- 25, 14th
    2011- 38, 1st
    2005 (Hou)- 16, 32nd
    2004- 30, 14th
    2003- 22, 26th
    2002- 21, 30th
    2001 (Ind)- 25, 24th
    2000- 22, 25th
    1999- 23, 27th
    1998 (Car)- 33, 9th
    1997- 22, 26th
    1996- 38, 5th
    1995- 37, 5thĒ

    Objectively, Fangioís track record doesnít backup the fantasy heís a genius.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Objectively, Fangioís track record doesnít backup the fantasy heís a genius.

    Well, that's just like your opinion man.


    I agree with it though. I have been less than impressed with him so far this year. I had hope coming in but it has been quashed. My only positives to come out of this season is that we will get a high draft pick (likely a bust) and that I might improve my seats again.
    It was a fast, strange time and we worked in a fast, strange ways.

  9. #69
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    Blow it up. Bring MIke Shanahan back for a year or two to clean up the mess. Then move on to someone else. Fangio is a great DC but he will be fired one way or the other by the end of next season. Why wait?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelerfreak View Post
    Well, that's just like your opinion man.


    I agree with it though. I have been less than impressed with him so far this year. I had hope coming in but it has been quashed. My only positives to come out of this season is that we will get a high draft pick (likely a bust) and that I might improve my seats again.
    Interestingly, the Bears defense is much stronger since his departure. The Bears defense is allowing almost 100 fewer yards and 10 fewer points per game this season.

  11. #71
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    He did a great job gainig McManus's trust

  12. #72
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    In Vic Fangio I Trust ! Vic Fangio should be the Coach of the Denver Broncos for at least the Next 10 Years.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Interestingly, the Bears defense is much stronger since his departure. The Bears defense is allowing almost 100 fewer yards and 10 fewer points per game this season.
    What are you talking about? Did you accidentally look at the preseason or playoff stats last year? Cause the Bears are giving up more yards this year.

    Overall yards:
    2018: 299.7 yards
    2019: 319.7 yards
    Rushing yards:
    2018: 80 yards
    2019: 97.5 yards
    Passing yards:
    2018: 219.7 yards
    2019: 222.2 yards
    Points per game:
    2018: 17.7 points
    2019: 17.3 yards

    So they're slightly better in points per game, and worse in yards. And certainly not much better like you've said. And out of curiosity I looked at the Bears stats for both preseason 2018 and postseason 2018 and they're better in yards in both than regular season 2019, so again I'm not sure what numbers you're looking at?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    Blow it up. Bring MIke Shanahan back for a year or two to clean up the mess. Then move on to someone else. Fangio is a great DC but he will be fired one way or the other by the end of next season. Why wait?
    That's ridiculous. He was handed a team with zero offensive line, unsettled QB situation, a thin receiving core, barely adequate TEs, a defensive line that doesn't match his system, weak ILBs. I'd give him two more years to get his type of people in.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    What are you talking about? Did you accidentally look at the preseason or playoff stats last year? Cause the Bears are giving up more yards this year.

    Overall yards:
    2018: 299.7 yards
    2019: 319.7 yards
    Rushing yards:
    2018: 80 yards
    2019: 97.5 yards
    Passing yards:
    2018: 219.7 yards
    2019: 222.2 yards
    Points per game:
    2018: 17.7 points
    2019: 17.3 yards

    So they're slightly better in points per game, and worse in yards. And certainly not much better like you've said. And out of curiosity I looked at the Bears stats for both preseason 2018 and postseason 2018 and they're better in yards in both than regular season 2019, so again I'm not sure what numbers you're looking at?
    Itís possible that I pulled the wrong stats. Sometimes the data doesnít refresh when changing seasons - I think the stats were from ESPN. In either case his defense hasnít been as good in Denver as the stats suggest. The defense has given up leads 5 times to lose games. They allowed huge rushing yards vs Jacksonville and Buffalo.

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