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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    It’s possible that I pulled the wrong stats. Sometimes the data doesn’t refresh when changing seasons - I think the stats were from ESPN. In either case his defense hasn’t been as good in Denver as the stats suggest. The defense has given up leads 5 times to lose games. They allowed huge rushing yards vs Jacksonville and Buffalo.
    I don't think anyone would disagree that the team needs to be better all around. But it's not like this defense has dropped off, they're 11th in yards, and 10th in points, which I believe is a major upgrade. So there are some positives. Although I don't think this team as a whole can get better until the get even average play from the O. And at this point it would be great to rise up to even "below average" on Special Teams.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I don't think anyone would disagree that the team needs to be better all around. But it's not like this defense has dropped off, they're 11th in yards, and 10th in points, which I believe is a major upgrade. So there are some positives. Although I don't think this team as a whole can get better until the get even average play from the O. And at this point it would be great to rise up to even "below average" on Special Teams.
    Statistically it’s an upgrade but it’s like an offense racking up yards between the 20s with poor red zone efficiency. Even in the game last Sunday they gave up big plays to let the Chargers back in the game. The so called “elite” players like Von Miller and Chris Harris Jr haven’t made enough plays.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Statistically it’s an upgrade but it’s like an offense racking up yards between the 20s with poor red zone efficiency. Even in the game last Sunday they gave up big plays to let the Chargers back in the game. The so called “elite” players like Von Miller and Chris Harris Jr haven’t made enough plays.
    Factually incorrect. The Broncos have one of the best red zone defenses in the NFL.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Factually incorrect. The Broncos have one of the best red zone defenses in the NFL.
    I might not have used the best analogy. The fact is that the defense hasn’t closed games. They’ve lost five games by giving up leads, one of which was an epic collapse vs Vikings. Red zone defense doesn’t matter if you can’t hold teams in last minute scoring drives.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I might not have used the best analogy. The fact is that the defense hasn’t closed games. They’ve lost five games by giving up leads, one of which was an epic collapse vs Vikings. Red zone defense doesn’t matter if you can’t hold teams in last minute scoring drives.
    I would argue that the failures in all of those games belong to the entire team. The offense continually fails to sustain drives, especially in the second half. The Special Teams tends to add nothing to any game, and generally when the team needs a big punt, Wadman is setting the opposition up near their own 40 yard line. I'm not absolving the defense by any means, but it's not like the rest of the team is blameless.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I would argue that the failures in all of those games belong to the entire team. The offense continually fails to sustain drives, especially in the second half. The Special Teams tends to add nothing to any game, and generally when the team needs a big punt, Wadman is setting the opposition up near their own 40 yard line. I'm not absolving the defense by any means, but it's not like the rest of the team is blameless.
    There were failures by the entire team in the losses. Von Miller’s failure to make a tackle was the pivotal failure in the drive by the Colts to win the game. We can point to every snap in every game as part of the outcome. The Broncos loss to the Vikings was the first time a defense surrendered 4 touchdowns in the second half after leading by 20 or more points in 40 years. I could anticipate the Vikings adjusting to slow down Brandon Allen in his first career start on the road. I expect Fangio’s defense to not give up 4 touchdowns in a half.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    There were failures by the entire team in the losses. Von Miller’s failure to make a tackle was the pivotal failure in the drive by the Colts to win the game. We can point to every snap in every game as part of the outcome. The Broncos loss to the Vikings was the first time a defense surrendered 4 touchdowns in the second half after leading by 20 or more points in 40 years. I could anticipate the Vikings adjusting to slow down Brandon Allen in his first career start on the road. I expect Fangio’s defense to not give up 4 touchdowns in a half.
    Your stat is incorrect. Denver beat San Diego 35-24 on Monday October 15, 2012, I'm sure we all remember that game. Denver trailed 24-0 at the half.

    And on Sunday November 24th, 2013 Denver was leading 24-0 at the half, New England scored 31 straight points, Denver tied the game at 31 to force overtime before losing 34-31 in OT.

    I'm sure there are more examples, but those are just two recent Broncos examples, of bigger leads, at the half, being blown. The Vikings game was a bad lead to blow, but it's only historic in the age of everything that happens every week is the greatest or worst in the history of the game. Of course, that's ridiculous, and it was just another blown lead.

    Actually debunking that stat is kind of fun, so here's another: Saturday January 4, 2014 Kansas City led Indianapolis 31-10 at the half (a 21 point lead) they gave up 35 second half points and lost 45-44. A playoff loss of that magnitude is historic.

    December 15, 2013 Dallas led Green Bay 26-3 at the half. Dallas lost that game 37-36

    Yes the Minnesota loss was bad, but it certainly wasn't historic in any meaningful context, and and most certainly wasn't the first time in 40 years that a team has given up 4 touchdowns in a half to lose a game they were leading by 20. Unless you want to use the specific context of exactly 20 points and exactly 4 touchdowns, then you might have something.

    Here's the link to biggest blown leads by every NFL franchise, a lot by more than 20, and a lot in the last 40 years.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...lown_leads.htm

    There's another one I just remembered, it was a Monday night game in 2003, Tampa Bay scored 21 straight points to lead 35-14 with 5:09 remaining in the fourth quarter (true it wasn't a 20+ halftime lead, but 21 points with 5:09 remaining is a bigger hill to climb), the Colts scored 3 touchdowns in the final 5 minutes and then kicked the winning FG in OT. Final was 38-35 Indy. That's a truly historic collapse both in magnitude of lead blown, stage the blown lead took place on and it was coming on the heels of the season where Tampa's defense was considered "All-Time great" in 2003 they finished 5th in D (279 yards per game) and 4th in points per game (16.5).
    Last edited by Butler By'Note; 12-03-2019 at 11:01 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Your stat is incorrect. Denver beat San Diego 35-24 on Monday October 15, 2012, I'm sure we all remember that game. Denver trailed 24-0 at the half.

    And on Sunday November 24th, 2013 Denver was leading 24-0 at the half, New England scored 31 straight points, Denver tied the game at 31 to force overtime before losing 34-31 in OT.

    I'm sure there are more examples, but those are just two recent Broncos examples, of bigger leads, at the half, being blown. The Vikings game was a bad lead to blow, but it's only historic in the age of everything that happens every week is the greatest or worst in the history of the game. Of course, that's ridiculous, and it was just another blown lead.

    Actually debunking that stat is kind of fun, so here's another: Saturday January 4, 2014 Kansas City led Indianapolis 31-10 at the half (a 21 point lead) they gave up 35 second half points and lost 45-44. A playoff loss of that magnitude is historic.

    December 15, 2013 Dallas led Green Bay 26-3 at the half. Dallas lost that game 37-36

    Yes the Minnesota loss was bad, but it certainly wasn't historic in any meaningful context, and and most certainly wasn't the first time in 40 years that a team has given up 4 touchdowns in a half to lose a game they were leading by 20. Unless you want to use the specific context of exactly 20 points and exactly 4 touchdowns, then you might have something.

    Here's the link to biggest blown leads by every NFL franchise, a lot by more than 20, and a lot in the last 40 years.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...lown_leads.htm

    There's another one I just remembered, it was a Monday night game in 2003, Tampa Bay scored 21 straight points to lead 35-14 with 5:09 remaining in the fourth quarter (true it wasn't a 20+ halftime lead, but 21 points with 5:09 remaining is a bigger hill to climb), the Colts scored 3 touchdowns in the final 5 minutes and then kicked the winning FG in OT. Final was 38-35 Indy. That's a truly historic collapse both in magnitude of lead blown, stage the blown lead took place on and it was coming on the heels of the season where Tampa's defense was considered "All-Time great" in 2003 they finished 5th in D (279 yards per game) and 4th in points per game (16.5).
    Right. It was actually the first time in 5 years and only the 14th time in NFL history (see link). With all the dubious records set by the Broncos this season it’s easy to mix up one of the stats. Maybe it was no sacks/turnovers in the first three games I was thinking about - first time in what, 37 years? Or maybe it was the lowest offensive production for the Broncos in 27 years when they lost to the Bills? It’s hard to track all the “World of suck” stats by this team.

    https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/40637141

    https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/201...ced-turnovers/

    The big picture is that this defense isn’t nearly as good as some believe.

  9. #84
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    Well, they played hard for him today!

  10. #85
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    I think we can put this stupidity to rest now. Another L for that hack LaCanfora.

  11. #86
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    The team has been rejuvenated and they are fighting for basically pride at this point. It’s a good sign.

  12. #87
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    True champions play to win, this is a look into the future. Everyone will Gel as they have more time working together, and winning makes it easier.

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