Fangio having trouble connecting with coaches & players...?

[svpearson]

Which generation would that be?

I work with a few of them, and yes this is spot on with them. However Snags is not one of them; he is 47.

[Peanut]

Been hearing this isn't truly confirmed.

It's a Jason Lacanfora report so it's probably false.

Some players are saying it isn't true (a nicer interpretation of what they said).

[Capt. Jack]

As much as we all want to win right now, it takes a while to build a team. So, I think we have to just stick with our coaches for a couple years, and see where it takes us.
It has been painful this year to watch these games. I've actually felt sick at the end of some of these games this year.

[Hadez]

As much as we all want to win right now, it takes a while to build a team. So, I think we have to just stick with our coaches for a couple years, and see where it takes us.
It has been painful this year to watch these games. I've actually felt sick at the end of some of these games this year.

agreed

It sucks to have been through the last 2+ seasons but Vic has only been here a partial season.

If he took over a winning team than I think the expectation to win this season would have been realistic.

He took over a team that has drafted top 5 and top 10 the previous two years. To think we were going to make the playoffs this year was hope smoke.

I do expect to have a winning team next year

[johnlimburg]

John Elway scapegoated Mike McCoy in year 1 of Vance Josephs tenure, actually fired him on November 20th. I would like to see some statistics on how that much less talented offense under McCoy stacked up to this Scrangerello led offense as of the 21st of November. John Elway has no problem firing offensive coordinators mid-season in the past, so why not the king of the tight-end sweep Scrangerello ?

[Fantaztic7]

John Elway scapegoated Mike McCoy in year 1 of Vance Josephs tenure, actually fired him on November 20th. I would like to see some statistics on how that much less talented offense under McCoy stacked up to this Scrangerello led offense as of the 21st of November. John Elway has no problem firing offensive coordinators mid-season in the past, so why not the king of the tight-end sweep Scrangerello ?

Joe Ellis, John Elway and Matt Russell are the people to fire. Scangarello only has 10 games under his belt. Has he made some bad calls, sure. The offense needs a quarterback and decent left/right tackles. Look at the difference in offensive production in two games with Allen. Two starts and the offense played better than the previous eight games. That’s with a guy who hadn’t started a game his entire career. This team needs continuity with young players. The main thing is whether or not Scangarello learns from the mistakes.

[Megalodon30]

John Elway scapegoated Mike McCoy in year 1 of Vance Josephs tenure, actually fired him on November 20th. I would like to see some statistics on how that much less talented offense under McCoy stacked up to this Scrangerello led offense as of the 21st of November. John Elway has no problem firing offensive coordinators mid-season in the past, so why not the king of the tight-end sweep Scrangerello ?

McCoy had been around for some time and had a long resume. Scangarello is a first time play caller. He deserves a lot more leeway than McCoy.

[Gsam]

I buy exactly 0% of this story. Fangio been coaching for ages and I have never heard hes been unable to get along with his players. If players hated a DC over the last 30 years you would have heard about it by now. We are supposed to believe that now that hes a head coach? Sorry no. JLC is a garbage source IMHO.

[johnlimburg]

Joe Ellis, John Elway and Matt Russell are the people to fire. Scangarello only has 10 games under his belt. Has he made some bad calls, sure. The offense needs a quarterback and decent left/right tackles. Look at the difference in offensive production in two games with Allen. Two starts and the offense played better than the previous eight games. That’s with a guy who hadn’t started a game his entire career. This team needs continuity with young players. The main thing is whether or not Scangarello learns from the mistakes.

I don't disagree with that first line, but you earn your keep by showing improvement, in what way has Scrangerello done that ? I argued against Vane Joseph and Joe Woods being kept around after year 1 in the back end of that season because they were trending downwards. I believe you earn your "leeway" as someone else said, by showing improvement, and providing hope for the future, Scrangerello is doing neither.

My comment was more of a hypothetical, I don't want Scrangerello fired, yet. But if he doesn't show improvement in the back end of this season, I will want him gone. Regardless of your experience level, you need to show something to warrant being kept around, or you end up wasting everyone time like Elway did by hanging onto Joseph and Woods.

[TheAsianPA]

I'll hold judgement on Scangarello until we get better talent at the QB position. It's very possible that Lock can do all the plays in the book.

[johnlimburg]

I'll hold judgement on Scangarello until we get better talent at the QB position. It's very possible that Lock can do all the plays in the book.

Doesn't change the fact that Scrangerello has failed to set a tonne with a commitment to the run game, forced Joe Flacco to run plays on the edge like he is even a remotely mobile quarterback, and called an endless stream of stupid plays like wide reciever passes, tight-end runs, etc. Yes, the wide reciever pass worked, but up 10 in that area of the field, with all the momentum like we had at that point, that is a dumb play call trying to be cute. I will also hold further judgement, but when you consider he wasn't qualified for the job, and with what he has put together so far, it's not looking great.

[WYBRONCO]

Doesn't change the fact that Scrangerello has failed to set a tonne with a commitment to the run game, forced Joe Flacco to run plays on the edge like he is even a remotely mobile quarterback, and called an endless stream of stupid plays like wide reciever passes, tight-end runs, etc. Yes, the wide reciever pass worked, but up 10 in that area of the field, with all the momentum like we had at that point, that is a dumb play call trying to be cute. I will also hold further judgement, but when you consider he wasn't qualified for the job, and with what he has put together so far, it's not looking great.

I would call plays that involved getting my QB out of the pocket if my OL blocked like ours does too. I didn't like Scangerello's play calling in the second half of the Vikings game, but he did try generate offense somewhat creatively in the first half. He has been around somewhat mobile QB's in the past so he is behind the 8 ball when Flacco barely can move around. Hopefully Scangerello does some more run oriented plays with RB's.

Our adjustments at half both offensively and defensively are lacking right now. But to the original thread point, I see no evidence that Fangio isn't able to relate to players. I entirely agree with the poster that said we would definitely have heard this in his 30yrs of coaching before now if it had in validity at all.

[johnlimburg]

I would call plays that involved getting my QB out of the pocket if my OL blocked like ours does too. I didn't like Scangerello's play calling in the second half of the Vikings game, but he did try generate offense somewhat creatively in the first half. He has been around somewhat mobile QB's in the past so he is behind the 8 ball when Flacco barely can move around. Hopefully Scangerello does some more run oriented plays with RB's.

That is the thing though, what is one of the biggest compliments verbally paid to someone who is considered a "good coach" ? They adapt to their players. Scrangerello forced Joe to be someone he wasn't, and continue to force it when the bootleg game was not working. That is a huge slight on a play-caller in my opinion, but something most average coordinators do, for example Gary Kubiak with Peyton Manning. I think John Elway just wanted someone from that same coaching tree, and looks like he found another average coordinator like his buddy Gary Kubiak, because Scrangerello was not qualified for the job. By the way, has anyone found any reason why our quarterback coach has that job title ?

[Fantaztic7]

I don't disagree with that first line, but you earn your keep by showing improvement, in what way has Scrangerello done that ? I argued against Vane Joseph and Joe Woods being kept around after year 1 in the back end of that season because they were trending downwards. I believe you earn your "leeway" as someone else said, by showing improvement, and providing hope for the future, Scrangerello is doing neither.

My comment was more of a hypothetical, I don't want Scrangerello fired, yet. But if he doesn't show improvement in the back end of this season, I will want him gone. Regardless of your experience level, you need to show something to warrant being kept around, or you end up wasting everyone time like Elway did by hanging onto Joseph and Woods.

I see improvement. In the game vs Browns he called 20 run/20 pass plays for 127 rush yds/195 pass yds. In the game bs Vikings he called 33 run/40 pass plays for 124 rush yds/270 pass yards including Sutton’s pass. There were more pass plays designed to stretch the defense, which helped open the run game as far as I could tell. The Browns and Vikings have good defenses, more so the Vikings. Running the same play to Fant wasn’t smart, at the same time he had some creative plays - Sutton’s pass. They exceeded season averages for rush/pass yards and points just glancing at the numbers. I thought he did a better job especially with a first time starter at QB.

[Butler By'Note]

John Elway scapegoated Mike McCoy in year 1 of Vance Josephs tenure, actually fired him on November 20th. I would like to see some statistics on how that much less talented offense under McCoy stacked up to this Scrangerello led offense as of the 21st of November. John Elway has no problem firing offensive coordinators mid-season in the past, so why not the king of the tight-end sweep Scrangerello ?

As per Pro Football reference:
1. v LAC 24 points 321 yards 2 turnovers
2. v Dal 42 points 380 yards 2 turnovers
3. @Buf 16 points 366 yards 2 turnovers
4. vOak 16 points 298 yards 0 turnovers
5. Bye
6. v NYG 10 points 412 yards 3 turnovers
7. @ LAC 0 points 251 yards 3 turnovers
8. @ KC 19 points 364 yards 5 turnovers
9. @ PHI 23 points 226 yards 2 turnovers
10. v NE 16 points 339 yards 2 turnovers
11. @ Cin 17 points 341 yards 2 turnovers

At that point they were 3-7, they averaged 18.3 points per game, although if you take out the first 2 games they averaged 14.6 points over the next 8 games. They were doing a decent job of accumulating yards, but they also had 23 turnovers, or an average of 2.3 turnovers per game.

For a guy with a lot of years as an OC, and a 4 year stint as an HC, it's hard to fathom that you put your team in that bad of a situation, and keep allowing them to commit turnovers. And his offense in Arizona the next year was even worse.

Here's the Broncos info from that year:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2017.htm

And the info for McCoy and the ranks of all of his offenses.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/McCoMi1.htm