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  1. #16
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.M. View Post
    Ed Donatell has had this job before -- 8 yrs experience as the DC for the Packers, Falcons and Redskins.
    I stand corrected. Thanks.

  2. #17
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    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I also share your sentiments. They've lost 4 games by a total of 9 points. 5 losses have been 1 score games. This team is competing hard and are a few breaks from legitimately having 2-3 more wins. And when you look at the team, although there are holes, there's also a lot of young talent.

    Much like many of us didn't realize how bad things were and how poor drafts were as they were happening, I think a lot of people right now are missing out on how far along the Broncos are in the rebuild. Right now they have 3 big holes, LT, QB and CB (RT would be the 4th hole, but it's not quite as big as the other 3) there's a draft pick at QB that we're waiting to see. If Lock proves to be even serviceable and they can have a good draft and find an LT and CB early, then this team could quickly turn those close losses into wins.

    I'm going to paraphrase Benjamin Allbright:
    There are 4 clear stages of a rebuild:
    1. Losing big
    2. Losing close
    3. winning close
    4. winning big

    The Broncos have gone from stage 1 to stage 2, hopefully 2020 brings stage 3.
    Great post, Butler!
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  3. #18
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    Apr 2016
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    522
    Normally I would agree, but it's the way we are losing close. Get out to a fast start and sputter to a stop in the 2nd half that upsets me. The team looks completely unable to make 2nd half adjustments

  4. #19
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    Oct 2003
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    Maryland
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    I like that our fans are HOPING and DREAMING. But this team and staff had not done better.

  5. #20
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    Mar 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel51 View Post
    I don’t know why so many are so upset/irritated about this season. It’s kind of going like many of us expected. I’m actually excited about the Broncos looking forward. We aren’t getting blown out. Guys playing hard. Competing well. We are building for sure, but I feel good about what we’ve got going on.

    Am I the only one like this?
    It's easy to see why.

    No matter if you suck or are great, losing close games sucks. These Broncos lead the league in 4th Q lead give ups I think I saw this week somewhere. We've lost 2-3 games on penalties that shouldn't have been called. ...........then of course THIS week the HISTORICAL 20pt lead blown.

    So ...........yeah there's that

    BUT .........I do see what you see. I think Fangio is finally getting things working better. Hopefully John Elway is learning not to make the mistakes he's made in the years leading up to now. And the simple fact that these ARE close games we're losing is a step in the right direction compared to the last couple years.
    Red 98

    The early bird may get the worm, but the 2nd mouse gets the cheese

  6. #21
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    Mar 2008
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    the treasure valley, Idaho
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    I think weíve got a lot of young talent; for all the grief Elway gets for his drafts the last 2 have been very good.
    The problem is our worst position is quarterback which is the position impacting the game the most.

  7. #22
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    Dec 2008
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    Calgary, Alberta
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    It's easy to see why.

    No matter if you suck or are great, losing close games sucks. These Broncos lead the league in 4th Q lead give ups I think I saw this week somewhere. We've lost 2-3 games on penalties that shouldn't have been called. ...........then of course THIS week the HISTORICAL 20pt lead blown.

    So ...........yeah there's that

    BUT .........I do see what you see. I think Fangio is finally getting things working better. Hopefully John Elway is learning not to make the mistakes he's made in the years leading up to now. And the simple fact that these ARE close games we're losing is a step in the right direction compared to the last couple years.
    It's only historical in the aspect that we're in the age of the everything that happens now needs to be the best or worst ever thanks to the internet and 24 hour news cycle etc. but the 20 point lead stat goes back only 5 seasons. And if you look at Broncos history this would only rank tied for 4th in biggest blown leads ever. During the 2013 (Manning's best year in Denver) they blew a 24 point lead to New England on Sunday Night Football. That had much bigger historical ramifications than this loss in a bad season.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...lown_leads.htm

    Looking through the list of blown leads, all but 3 teams have blown bigger than 20 point leads in their history. And certainly Atlanta in the Super Bowl (25 points) and Kansas City in the playoffs v Indy (28 points) rank up there historically. Oh and I also question the 0-99 stat when down 20 (they claimed in included playoffs) over the last 5 years since the Falcons Super Bowl loss was 3 seasons ago.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...lown_leads.htm

  8. #23
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    Dec 2015
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    Wisconsin
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    132
    We are a few positions away from being a great team, I truly believe that. Allen's play alone shows that a quality QB that can scramble and move can help the offense. I'm excited to see how Lock works out. He was projected to be an early 1st round pick, so he must have some skills. I know he can scamble and he has a hell of an arm, so we'll see how he can handle the NFL. If he does pane out, I think we'll be decent next year. We have lost four games this year by a total of 10 points (two on last second field goals, one on a field goal late). Change those games around and we have a different season. My biggest concern is the staff. I am not sold on Fangio. He has really been outcoached this year. Every coach gets two years though, so I hope he can improve. These next games will tell us a lot.

  9. #24
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    Apr 2011
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    730
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzy22jeff View Post
    We are a few positions away from being a great team, I truly believe that. Allen's play alone shows that a quality QB that can scramble and move can help the offense. I'm excited to see how Lock works out. He was projected to be an early 1st round pick, so he must have some skills. I know he can scamble and he has a hell of an arm, so we'll see how he can handle the NFL. If he does pane out, I think we'll be decent next year. We have lost four games this year by a total of 10 points (two on last second field goals, one on a field goal late). Change those games around and we have a different season. My biggest concern is the staff. I am not sold on Fangio. He has really been outcoached this year. Every coach gets two years though, so I hope he can improve. These next games will tell us a lot.
    I guess if you expand the definition of "few", then maybe so. We need a whole new O-line, a couple LB'ers, and a corner or two. And we still don't know what we have in Lock at QB. If that's what you mean by a few, then I'm with you.

  10. #25
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    Dec 2015
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    Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirehawk View Post
    I guess if you expand the definition of "few", then maybe so. We need a whole new O-line, a couple LB'ers, and a corner or two. And we still don't know what we have in Lock at QB. If that's what you mean by a few, then I'm with you.
    We're not too far apart. I don't think we need a whole new line, but we need help. LB's are playing hard, but a lock CB would be nice. Lock is a ?, but if he panes out, it will be a shot in the arm for the offense. The draft will help (hopefully). Trying to find some light!!!

  11. #26
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    Jun 2007
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    Until this team gets a legit GM and settles its ownership issues, it will continue to flounder.

  12. #27
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    Apr 2007
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    I think it's hilarious... Sundays game was one of the most fun I've watched in a while.

    We were up by 20 at half to one of the hottest teams in football. With a second game community QB. A game no one picked us for. We are knocking the door down. The announcers are dumbfounded. Heck at half I thought we had it on the bag and we would produce a respectable season.

    Yet, when minn started coming back.... A lot of us just knew deep down from a looooong ways away. Against all odds... We were going to find a way to lose that game. That adds to the comedy. We got DISMANTLED in front of everyone. And who did it??? Whose the man in the booth? It's KUBES!!!! With the office pro!! The headset!!! Masterful play calling! He and his men carved us up like a turkey! I loved it.
    Last edited by Zealander; 11-19-2019 at 12:13 AM.

  13. #28
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    Mar 2012
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    4,536
    A few key players to fill gaps won't do it. If it were that easy, every team would fix their problems every season. Plus, it just isn't possible to have great players at every spot.

    It isn't always "blown leads". Sometimes the opposing team got caught off guard early, but made better adjustments.

    Sometimes it's experience over talent.

    Sometimes it's about coaches/systems who can get the most out of players 23 through 50 than it is about the starting talent.

    It's amazing how the fans praised the front office when the Broncos were doing well (re: Manning years, late Elway years), versus what they say about the exact same management when they aren't winning all the time. It's hard to get and maintain a winning team in the NFL. The margins between victory and defeat are often razor thin. These Broncos have proven they can play with almost anyone, but they aren't as consistent as the good teams. No one is "due" a win - that's a gambler's fallacy. Everything has to be working from the top-down at the same time for a team to get on a roll.

    Or they could just be like the Patriots and cheat.

  14. #29
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    Dec 2003
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    NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    It's only historical in the aspect that we're in the age of the everything that happens now needs to be the best or worst ever thanks to the internet and 24 hour news cycle etc. but the 20 point lead stat goes back only 5 seasons. And if you look at Broncos history this would only rank tied for 4th in biggest blown leads ever. During the 2013 (Manning's best year in Denver) they blew a 24 point lead to New England on Sunday Night Football. That had much bigger historical ramifications than this loss in a bad season.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...lown_leads.htm

    Looking through the list of blown leads, all but 3 teams have blown bigger than 20 point leads in their history. And certainly Atlanta in the Super Bowl (25 points) and Kansas City in the playoffs v Indy (28 points) rank up there historically. Oh and I also question the 0-99 stat when down 20 (they claimed in included playoffs) over the last 5 years since the Falcons Super Bowl loss was 3 seasons ago.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...lown_leads.htm
    Itís a play on words. The stat was for leads blown at the half. Not just biggest leads blown. Thatís where the 0-99 came from. So when you go through the list, not many of those teams on that second link meet that criteria. Like NE-ATL for example. The lead at the half was 18. But our 24pt halftime lead over NE in 2013, does reign as our most epic collapse.

    I think the Chiefs-Colts in 2014 was the last +20 at the half collapse

  15. #30
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    Sep 2007
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    1,547
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzy22jeff View Post
    We are a few positions away from being a great team, I truly believe that. Allen's play alone shows that a quality QB that can scramble and move can help the offense. I'm excited to see how Lock works out. He was projected to be an early 1st round pick, so he must have some skills. I know he can scamble and he has a hell of an arm, so we'll see how he can handle the NFL. If he does pane out, I think we'll be decent next year. We have lost four games this year by a total of 10 points (two on last second field goals, one on a field goal late). Change those games around and we have a different season. My biggest concern is the staff. I am not sold on Fangio. He has really been outcoached this year. Every coach gets two years though, so I hope he can improve. These next games will tell us a lot.
    The Cleveland Browns lost about 9 games by less than 7 points a couple years ago. That doesn't mean you're close to being a great team and that you'll figure it out and win some of those games in the future. To me, it highlights that a team doesn't know how to win or do the right things in the right moments. It's often said more games are lost than won, and that applies to us a lot this season. The talent isn't horrible, but I agree with you that coaching and management is sub par and it's showing. Unfortunately, we don't have an owner and the we've fired so many coaches and coordinators lately, we probably won't make a move from the ones we have.

    Many fans are saying we have to be patient and it's going to take time. Many of us aren't trying to hear that as we're less than 5 years from winning a Super Bowl and the writing was on the wall that we had to make some major changes going forward. We really haven't been successful since that Super Bowl, so I'm not sure how much more patient we should be. Hiring a head coach without any head coaching experience probably isn't a good idea without a strong set of coordinators with experience in their positions to help him out. Fangio's had some poor game management in the 4th quarters this year and the whole 2nd half vs the Vikings he was badly outcoached. He's supposedly a defensive wizard, but a team down 20 with Kirk Cousins scored a TD on every possession of the 2nd half.
    Last edited by champ&dreallday; 11-19-2019 at 08:30 AM.

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