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  1. #16
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    I agree, our line is average at worst. People just don't watch a lot of other teams play, much less often do they focus on those teams' OLs. It could be better though, and with consistency, ample draft picks, and $70m+ in cap space, we could make the jump from average to very good this offseason.


    In a perfect world, we sign Scherff in FA to replace Leary, draft Thomas/Wirfs/Jackson for LT and make Bolles compete with Wilkinson for swing tackle or RT if James continues his antics.
    Last edited by Papa-pwn; 12-05-2019 at 03:02 PM.

  2. #17
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    We will need to find a replacement for Leary and a new LT. With 3 3rd rounders we should be able to fill those needs by day 2

  3. #18
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    By the way if you think the O-line issue isn't bad go look at Drew Luck's highlight reel from the Charger game this last Sunday. Focus on Bolles the entire time. It's ridiculous. He's a speed bump, and not a very effective one.

  4. #19
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    Ja’Wuan James is expected to play vs Texans. If he plays out the season the Broncos might try him at LT. His pattern is to show up every other year, so maybe he’ll be a contributor in 2020. If he continues taking advantage of the guaranteed money to sit, the Broncos will need to address LT and RT for next season. McGovern is average but maybe over time Munchak can coach him up. Moving Bolles inside is worth a try IMO.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    I agree, our line is average at worst. People just don't watch a lot of other teams play, much less often do they focus on those teams' OLs. It could be better though, and with consistency, ample draft picks, and $70m+ in cap space, we could make the jump from average to very good this offseason.


    In a perfect world, we sign Scherff in FA to replace Leary, draft Thomas/Wirfs/Jackson for LT and make Bolles compete with Wilkinson for swing tackle or RT if James continues his antics.
    When you have a quarterback who holds them ball too long it exasperates the problem.

  6. #21
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    Against the Chargers Lock was a BIG reason why they did not get a sack. He is able to throw the ball quickly from positions that are difficult for a lot of QBs. But the OL allowing the pressure that they did, looks like one of the reasons that he only had ~5yds per attempt... he often had to get rid of the ball to a receiver that was behind the LOS or at it. At least he could get rid of it! Locks ability to get the ball out and complete it - even if it was for no or little gain - is a big reason to be optimistic about his future.
    The OL pass pro has to get better if the offense is to evolve with Lock. Similar to last season they are probably not in the bottom 10 overall, but they are not in the top 10 either.
    Because Bolles is still on his rookie contract for one more season at ~3.5M he will be given and should be given the opportunity to compete for a spot on the OL in TC/Preseason 2020.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    Lock has the ability to get rid of the ball very, very quickly. He's also pretty mobile and will throw the ball on the move from an unstable platform at weird angles. He did that against the Chargers. That's a good thing to have in a QB but just because you have a QB that may be able to mitigate crappy O-ine play doesn't mean having a crappy O-Lineman is OK. I want them to draft an OT in the first and a C in the second.
    Good points, BUT those habits will come back to bite a QB, often at pivotal moments in games. Lock can throw quickly, but can he diagnose and exploit a defense quickly? The best NFL QBs can do that without relying on athleticism to bail them out. Lock might get there, and I hope he does, but as you point out, just because he didn't take a sack where Flacco would have taken several doesn't mean our Oline problems are fixed. We want Lock to develop vision and quick decision making behind decent protection, not bad habits running for his life. To do that, we need to upgrade LT and G at a minimum and maybe RT too.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    As bad as Bolles is in pass protection, he's good in run blocking. The Broncos are ranked 2nd in the league when they run over left tackle. With both him and Risner having a mean streak they need to start games by running behind those two, let them hammer open some holes and push the hit the opponent.

    And as hesitant as I was about it earlier I do agree with the sentiment of moving him to guard in the offseason to see how it goes. His biggest issue in pass Pro is getting beat outside, making up for it with bad technique and then holding. In at guard he'd essentially be blocking in a phone booth and the issue of getting beaten outside with speed would be nullified. He'd just need to be able to anchor against bullrushes.
    Exactly, that's why it's at minimum worth trying. What's it going to hurt? It could actually be a big improvement.


  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
    By the way if you think the O-line issue isn't bad go look at Drew Luck's highlight reel from the Charger game this last Sunday. Focus on Bolles the entire time. It's ridiculous. He's a speed bump, and not a very effective one.
    And yet, not a single sack, yes, Boles sucks, but you don't go a whole game against a good pass rush like the chargers have sack free if your line is bad.


  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Ja’Wuan James is expected to play vs Texans. If he plays out the season the Broncos might try him at LT. His pattern is to show up every other year, so maybe he’ll be a contributor in 2020. If he continues taking advantage of the guaranteed money to sit, the Broncos will need to address LT and RT for next season. McGovern is average but maybe over time Munchak can coach him up. Moving Bolles inside is worth a try IMO.
    The whole LT thing seems ridiculous, didn't he have a knee injury to his left knee? Isn't he struggling mentally in having confidence that his injury is healed? The other reason it makes zero sense, as bad as Bolles has been this year, Wilkinson has been worse on the right side. It's great to want to upgrade the line, but replacing the second worst pass blocker (who's their best run blocker) and leaving the worse of the offensive lineman seems like a bad decision.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    The whole LT thing seems ridiculous, didn't he have a knee injury to his left knee? Isn't he struggling mentally in having confidence that his injury is healed? The other reason it makes zero sense, as bad as Bolles has been this year, Wilkinson has been worse on the right side. It's great to want to upgrade the line, but replacing the second worst pass blocker (who's their best run blocker) and leaving the worse of the offensive lineman seems like a bad decision.
    I agree it would be ridiculous but that’s what one report said the Broncos are considering. I have zero confidence James will be a viable option at RT or anywhere else on the line. As it stands now we’ll need upgrades on both sides, unless James toughens up.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    And yet, not a single sack, yes, Boles sucks, but you don't go a whole game against a good pass rush like the chargers have sack free if your line is bad.
    The line didn’t play well in pass protection despite not allowing a sack. First, Lock only had 28 pass attempts of 53 snaps. The pass plays were mostly screens and short routes designed to get the ball out quick (like Carr in the opener this season). For Lock’s first start those weren’t bad plays by Scangarello because the Chargers had pressure on almost every play. It was the short routes and Lock’s mobility that kept them from allowing a sack.

    Lock’s Adjusted Net Yards per Pass Attempt was 4.61, one of the lowest ANY/A of any quarterback to start a game this season. This is why he didn’t take a sack, not because the line played well.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019

    According to football outsiders stats, we've got a top 10 o-line. People keep clinging to this notion that we still have a garbage o-line (garbage lt, sure) but it's not really as bad as people claim. We're middle of the league in qb hits and most of those came during flacco ls immobile tenure.

    Zero sacks on lock this week with bosa lining up on the other side.

    I think we replace bolles in the off-season, we'll finally be able to put the "our o-line sucks" mindset to bed in Denver.

    Been really happy with the munchak hire.
    I was checking in on team stats to see where Denver's defense was ranked and noticed that the Chargers are ranked pretty high on defense in many stats. This reinforces your topic to some degree.

    It's funny ........football - the fact that it's a team sport such that stats can lie - and for that matter so can the eye ball test. Say a team holds 20 times but in insignificant moments ............vs a team who holds 10 times but in critical situations. That stat sheet wouldn't tell the whole story.

    Look at our defense. We're ranked top third (11th yards). But look how we do in late halves. We always seem to give up cheap points when the clock is running out. That's the opposite of clutch.

    Getting back to our offense. Even early in the season our offense wasn't too bad in some of those late half drives -- to no avail but still.

    Last thing to say is how much the QB and RB effect the OL stats and vise versa (team sport). A QB with mobility could either be more or less prone to sacks. Extending plays in some situations creates sack opportunities. I recall that being the case for Seattle earlier in the season - not sure if that still holds up. But at the same time, Wilson is mobile and elusive.

    Joe Flacco was a sack magnet though.

    Not sure I've ever been so wrong about a signing as I was about Flacco. Seeing him play well early bringing the team back late in games and doing decent things but the flip side to that coin was obviously his limitations in mobility. I assume our OL was still gelling then maybe too.

    All this just to say stats don't say it all. It's hard to evaluate without them though. They go hand in hand with common sense (eye test). Are those 5 guys clutch players? Do they play better in critical moments? Do they hold under pressure or frustration?

    One more thing.......... As horrible as Bolles was earlier in the season he sure settled in lately. I haven't been watching him closely but I also haven't been hearing his name called out for penalties as much. It's all relative though.

    This post not really anything but a run on brain storm. move along now
    Red 98

    Kareem rises to the top

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    According to Football Outsiders he's a dominant run blocker. Moving him to guard improves his pass pro technique just based on position, and gives you more anger run blocking inside. He might struggle because of his size, but that's the best bet to save his career. And since the Broncos have him under contract at a decent rate for one more year, it makes sense to move him and see how he does during the OTAs and camp.

    Frankly I wouldn't mind taking a look at Risner at both RT and C, Risner was a C for his Freshman year at KSU, and then started 3 years at RT. It's probably not a fit at C, but I think he could be an interesting fit at RT. II'd also look at Bolles and Wilkinson at G, both are better suited for the inside pass blocking.
    I haven't seen anything dominate about the run blocking on our team maybe I am looking at the wrong thing

    I also really like jon runyan jr so it may be some biest
    Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 12-05-2019 at 08:50 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    I haven't seen anything dominate about the run blocking on our team maybe I am looking at the wrong thing

    I also really like jon runyan jr so it may be some biest
    According to Football Outsiders Denver ranks second in the league when running over the Left Tackle. In general they're decent running from tackle to tackle, okay running outside left and poor running outside right.

    But when ranked second in the league in success running over Left Tackle that will indicate that your left tackle is dominant at run blocking. Which is why I would move him inside and limit the amount of space he needs to pass block.

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