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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zealander View Post
    What do you have against Ellis?

    He's intelligent... Been keeping things together. Has good intentions for the team and he was Bowlen's#1 and most trusted man.

    I think there more influence Ellis has for us in the future, the better.
    I think the opposite, it’s my opinion but from reading between the lines over the years, it seems to me that Ellis saw an opportunity to cement himself as the de facto owner and took it and he seems to be positioning himself to try and buy the team. A lot of the things he’s done has been very snake like in my eyes, from the Mike Shannahan firing, the trading of Jay Cutler, and now the struggle to name a legitimate candidate from Pat’s children to take over.

    And some of the football decisions he’s had a big hand in haven’t been very good either. Just kind of how I interpret things but I don’t think Vance was Elway’s guy and that a good bit of the bad drafts weren’t necessarily his sole decisions. There was a drastic change in how he operated when he took over to how things were going heading into Manning’s last season here. Elway chose to hire Fox, he’s a coach with a ton of experience and is (or was) well respected in the league. Vance was the complete opposite and a friend to some others in the Broncos FO. I think Vance was pushed on him. And once it all bottomed out and Ellis said this offseason something to the effects of not being so involved in the process (or interviewing candidates separately or something like that) we end up with another older, well respected, super experienced coach at least as a coordinator. And then the drafting, when Elway took over he drafted players with high character, team captains, and in general players that played multiple seasons in college. Again experience seemed to be a big factor for him at that point. Then you get to the bad drafts and you see a lot more book or bust one year wonder types of players. The past two drafts have been good and it looks like experience and character are back near the top of what’s being looked at. It’s possible John just builds differently when in a rebuilding state as opposed to a win it all state but I think John is smart enough to know that Siemian and Lynch weren’t answers. Keenum might have fooled him though.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Beths argument is that Joe Ellis knew Pat was on a rapidly decline and used it to gain control of the team.
    However he had to get Mike out of the picture before he could do so.

    According to many former FO officials and players, Pat was showing signs of Alzheimer’s as far back as 2005. In honor of Pat, nobody said a word nor did they have to until something like this comes about.
    Shanahan was fired by Pat Bowlen in 2008. He had been gone from Dove Valley for two years before he stepped away from decision making, and for six years before Ellis was in complete control. One wonders what light he could shed on an issue from which he had been separated for years. He had his hands full in Washington from 2010 through 2013, so I doubt he had time to be involved with the Broncos then.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Shanahan was fired by Pat Bowlen in 2008. He had been gone from Dove Valley for two years before he stepped away from decision making, and for six years before Ellis was in complete control. One wonders what light he could shed on an issue from which he had been separated for years. He had his hands full in Washington from 2010 through 2013, so I doubt he had time to be involved with the Broncos then.
    But if Pat had been showing signs of Alzheimer’s prior to him being fired Mike could corroborate that

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    But if Pat had been showing signs of Alzheimer’s prior to him being fired Mike could corroborate that
    I doubt Mike would publicly comment but maybe things will come out in court documents who knows.
    Champ Bailey is the only player in NFL history to earn 200+ (203) Passes Defended
    Terrell Davis is 3rd all time in rushing yards per game (97.5)

  5. #35
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    Honestly none of know enough to make a good call on this. All we know is what we have read and I am pretty sure lots of things are being said that are maybe speculation and lots of things are not even being made public.

    With that my take...

    How long has the trust been going on?

    One of the things that really annoys me is the trust has some kind of long term managerial qualification (I think 5 years?) about the next Bowlen to take over yet from what I read they have given only a couple months experience to the Bowlen they want to maybe be the one who controls the Broncos. This seems to be a good way to stay in power to me. Do not even give them a chance to prove themselves.

    Why is the trust just now starting on a long term goal? Why are they just putting one of the Bowlen children in a place to show what they got?

    I do not know what to believe but from what little I have seen it does not seem like to me the trust is acting in good faith in trying to find a member of the Bowlen family who is capable of running the Broncos. It does seem like to me try are trying to keep the power they have. Like I said from the get-go no one really knows the full story.

    It would be nice to see a good account of what is required for the next Bowlen to take over and what actions has the Trust actually done in the years they been in control in effort to try and full fill these requirements.
    Champ Bailey is the only player in NFL history to earn 200+ (203) Passes Defended
    Terrell Davis is 3rd all time in rushing yards per game (97.5)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    But if Pat had been showing signs of Alzheimer’s prior to him being fired Mike could corroborate that
    More credible witnesses might be Steve Antonopoulos or Fred Fleming.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Honestly none of know enough to make a good call on this. All we know is what we have read and I am pretty sure lots of things are being said that are maybe speculation and lots of things are not even being made public.

    With that my take...

    How long has the trust been going on?

    One of the things that really annoys me is the trust has some kind of long term managerial qualification (I think 5 years?) about the next Bowlen to take over yet from what I read they have given only a couple months experience to the Bowlen they want to maybe be the one who controls the Broncos. This seems to be a good way to stay in power to me. Do not even give them a chance to prove themselves.

    Why is the trust just now starting on a long term goal? Why are they just putting one of the Bowlen children in a place to show what they got?

    I do not know what to believe but from what little I have seen it does not seem like to me the trust is acting in good faith in trying to find a member of the Bowlen family who is capable of running the Broncos. It does seem like to me try are trying to keep the power they have. Like I said from the get-go no one really knows the full story.

    It would be nice to see a good account of what is required for the next Bowlen to take over and what actions has the Trust actually done in the years they been in control in effort to try and full fill these requirements.
    One of the articles from the Denver Post may address some of your questions.

    https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/1...rolling-owner/

    Setting down the criteria

    In October 2013, Bowlen formally filed with the league to step down as controlling owner, placing the ownership of the team in the hands of three trustees: Ellis, team counsel Rich Sliva and Denver attorney Mary Kelly. It is Ellis who is Controlling Owner Delegee/CEO and has full authority to make final decisions for the team.

    Bowlen, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s nearly a decade ago, established a family trust years before to eventually transfer ownership of the team to his seven children. Each child would receive equal stake in the franchise, but only one would make the final decisions for the club, be the sole voice for the team at league meetings and have the title of controlling owner.

    It was Bowlen’s desire to keep the team within the family, but if the trustees ever deem it in the best interest of the team and the trust’s beneficiaries — Bowlen’s children — to sell, they have complete authority to do so.

    In short, while Pat Bowlen is still the owner of the Broncos, the trustees have the power. And Ellis, the team’s top decision-maker for now, also is the top decision-maker for his eventual replacement in the Broncos’ seat at NFL meetings.

    According to multiple NFL sources, the three trustees sent Bowlen’s children and wife Annabel a lengthy blueprint in February 2015 that included a list of requisites, in addition to a shortlist of responsibilities, for whomever will be the next controlling owner. The trustees informed Bowlen’s family that the bulleted items did not constitute a checklist and, if met, would not guarantee one would become controlling owner/CEO. The trustees would retain control, and any change in that structure would be at their discretion and require the approval of the league and 31 other NFL team owners.

    That list includes multiple subjective items, such as leadership and integrity and sound judgment. But it also includes more specific requirements, such as bachelor’s degree, paired with an MBA, J.D. or other advanced business-related degree. It also mandates at least five years of senior management experience with the league, team or Stadium Management Company, the group that operates the Broncos’ soon-to-be-renamed stadium. It does not, however, specify which job titles are considered senior management.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    I’ve recently heard that former Denver resident and Bronco fan Robert Frederick Smith has hinted some interest in buying the Broncos if they were to go on the market.

    Forgive me, no link. It’s just talk around town so at this point don’t take it to literal.

    Anyway here’s a little info on him.


    DescriptionRobert Frederick Smith is an American billionaire businessman, philanthropist, chemical engineer, and investment banker. He is the founder, chairman, and CEO of private equity firm Vista Equity Partners. In 2018, Smith was ranked by Forbes as the 163rd richest person in America. Wikipedia
    Born: December 1, 1962 (age 57 years), Colorado
    Net worth: US$5 billion (Forbes September 2019)
    The NFL would get its first African American owner. It would be a great move for both parties involved.

  9. #39
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    Brittany Bowlen returned to work for the Denver Broncos as Vice President of Strategic Initiatives on December 2, 2019. This role would likely be the first to be considered senior management with the league, team or stadium management company. I don’t know if the trust would count her previous work with the league as senior management.

    If Brittany’s current role with the Broncos is the first to count toward five years, she would meet that criteria in December 2024 (assuming she stays in the same role or transitions without gaps to other senior management roles). Just considering this criteria at the earliest the trust could designate Brittany as controlling owner in early 2025.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    One of the articles from the Denver Post may address some of your questions.

    https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/1...rolling-owner/

    Setting down the criteria

    In October 2013, Bowlen formally filed with the league to step down as controlling owner, placing the ownership of the team in the hands of three trustees: Ellis, team counsel Rich Sliva and Denver attorney Mary Kelly. It is Ellis who is Controlling Owner Delegee/CEO and has full authority to make final decisions for the team.

    Bowlen, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s nearly a decade ago, established a family trust years before to eventually transfer ownership of the team to his seven children. Each child would receive equal stake in the franchise, but only one would make the final decisions for the club, be the sole voice for the team at league meetings and have the title of controlling owner.

    It was Bowlen’s desire to keep the team within the family, but if the trustees ever deem it in the best interest of the team and the trust’s beneficiaries — Bowlen’s children — to sell, they have complete authority to do so.

    In short, while Pat Bowlen is still the owner of the Broncos, the trustees have the power. And Ellis, the team’s top decision-maker for now, also is the top decision-maker for his eventual replacement in the Broncos’ seat at NFL meetings.

    According to multiple NFL sources, the three trustees sent Bowlen’s children and wife Annabel a lengthy blueprint in February 2015 that included a list of requisites, in addition to a shortlist of responsibilities, for whomever will be the next controlling owner. The trustees informed Bowlen’s family that the bulleted items did not constitute a checklist and, if met, would not guarantee one would become controlling owner/CEO. The trustees would retain control, and any change in that structure would be at their discretion and require the approval of the league and 31 other NFL team owners.

    That list includes multiple subjective items, such as leadership and integrity and sound judgment. But it also includes more specific requirements, such as bachelor’s degree, paired with an MBA, J.D. or other advanced business-related degree. It also mandates at least five years of senior management experience with the league, team or Stadium Management Company, the group that operates the Broncos’ soon-to-be-renamed stadium. It does not, however, specify which job titles are considered senior management.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Brittany Bowlen returned to work for the Denver Broncos as Vice President of Strategic Initiatives on December 2, 2019. This role would likely be the first to be considered senior management with the league, team or stadium management company. I don’t know if the trust would count her previous work with the league as senior management.

    If Brittany’s current role with the Broncos is the first to count toward five years, she would meet that criteria in December 2024 (assuming she stays in the same role or transitions without gaps to other senior management roles). Just considering this criteria at the earliest the trust could designate Brittany as controlling owner in early 2025.
    I am not expecting you do to this research as I am not going to ....

    I think it would be nice to know as a fan....

    Is the trust putting forth a realistic set of expectations? This could be measured against other transfer of ownership of teams that stayed in the family.

    I would also like to know more details about the Trust's efforts to help the kids willing to get the experience required. Also compare this to the kids willingness to try and meet the expectations.

    There is nothing that can be done about the past but maybe an honest evaluation of what has been done and the efforts up to this point can lead to a good point going forward.
    Champ Bailey is the only player in NFL history to earn 200+ (203) Passes Defended
    Terrell Davis is 3rd all time in rushing yards per game (97.5)

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I am not expecting you do to this research as I am not going to ....

    I think it would be nice to know as a fan....

    Is the trust putting forth a realistic set of expectations? This could be measured against other transfer of ownership of teams that stayed in the family.

    I would also like to know more details about the Trust's efforts to help the kids willing to get the experience required. Also compare this to the kids willingness to try and meet the expectations.

    There is nothing that can be done about the past but maybe an honest evaluation of what has been done and the efforts up to this point can lead to a good point going forward.
    Not sure about how realistic the expectations are with respect to other transfers of ownership. I don’t think there have been many transfers and each has been unique from what I remember.

    The criteria sets a high bar considering some of the specific criteria such as five years senior management with the league, team or stadium management company. That’s a requirement not a lot of people can meet however, the trust can subjectively deem what counts as “senior management”.

    It seems like the trust has worked to help Brittany Bowlen by hiring her as the VP of Strategic Initiatives. On the other hand they dismissed Beth Bowlen despite her earning the advanced degree they require in the criteria. With the subjective aspect of the criteria all the trust had to do essentially say, “So you got the degree, we still don’t believe you’re the best candidate”.

    When we step back and look at how the trust is setup, at least from what’s been reported, Joe Ellis is the trust. He is the controlling owner. The two other trust members are there but Ellis has the final say in every decision.

    With Brittany in the VP position it’s clear she’s being developed as the eventual controlling owner. However, Ellis has the power to maintain control as long as he desires unless the league steps in (or the courts).

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    But if Pat had been showing signs of Alzheimer’s prior to him being fired Mike could corroborate that
    Pat's estate lawyer has signed an affidavit saying that Pat knew fully what his assets were and where he wanted them to go, and was in control when he signed the trust document in 2009.

    Shanahan may have some insight, but an Estate Lawyer (will nothing to gain from any of this) would probably have more influence with the court.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    I think you’re making it far too complicated than it needs to be.

    We all understand how the justice system works and all those people that you mention, yes they’ve signed off on Pat Bowen’s decision to choose Joe Ellis but not all of them had the up close personal look inside the building to actually see what was going on.

    The case is against Joe Ellis that Beth is attempting to make a case that Joe took Advantage an already sick Pat Bowlen.

    That is why Mike Shanahan’s testimony would mean so much and it would also mean a lot to the NFL brass that you mentioned above who still respect Shanahan to great lengths. His testimony would mean something to them and I don’t believe Mike would take the stand if he felt as strongly or confident in the Ellis camp as you do.

    It’ll be an interesting case However I hope it doesn’t interfere with the teams performance at that time.
    I just read an excellent article by Nicki Jahabvala (can never spell her name right) on the Athletic. She goes into all of the details just after the last law suit was filed.

    She mentions that the whole thing has splintered into two cases. The first is still in court in Colorado which looks at the 2009 trust (his will) and the validity of it, the makeup of the Trust that runs the team currently as well as the NO Contest clause included in his will. If they're successful the trust will revert to a former version, they want the 2002 version, however the Estate Lawyer said the trust was changed 3 times after that. Either way that's the end game there.

    The second case is NFL arbitration, and it's 100% to do with the ownership issues. Regardless of how the first resolves, this one will be the determining factor in ownership/sale. My guess is if a previous Will is restored then the team will be put up for sale by the NFL.

    Now the curious thing about the arbitration, and Ellis' comments. The arbitration has already happened (or at least there's been several days of hearings for it), and it's completely confidential. There's a very real chance that it's already been decided what will happen and they'll wait for the Colorado courts to either finish, or get a little further along before it becomes public.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    More credible witnesses might be Steve Antonopoulos or Fred Fleming.
    100% agree. Along with the Estate Lawyer he dealt with. The NFL people that he dealt with, the other NFL owners, and of course Roger Goodell. All of those people would have a clearer picture of his faculties than a coach that was let go in 2008.

    And of course they could just talk to Bowlen's doctors. The confidentiality shouldn't be a problem since he's now deceased. They would have the clearest picture of where he was back then.

  15. #45
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    I would imagine the sale is already underway, informally behind the scene. Brittany would be named “controlling owner designee” with Ellis as the interim controlling owner. The sale would include a sunset clause for Brittany to assume her role in five years, which would meet the criteria for senior management experience. Ellis and Elway would have minority ownership positions within the ownership group. The remaining Bowlen children would be paid out their equal share. This would allow the trust to fulfill “keep the team in the family” while shutting out the other children. We’ll see what happens, but this would be my best guess at this time.

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