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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Everyone has an opinion on how Elway and Fangio dealt with the Lock situation.

    I don’t think anybody believes the Flacco move wasn’t a big mistake by Elway.

    While he got that wrong he drafted Lock when the other 31 teams passed on him.

    Elway got us Lock and he’s our guy is what matters now!

    My hope is that we use this draft to build an offense around him so we can go toe to toe vs KC.
    Outscored 53-9 last year SMH ��*♂️.......
    It takes more than building an offense. If Denver (or any team) think that they need to build an offense to keep up with KC they're probably going to end up lagging behind a bunch of teams. And I would argue Denver needed to improve all 3 phases of the team, not just the offense, although it was the furthest behind.

    KC is just another in the long line of high scoring offences, if you go back to the Rams of the early 00's, the Chefs of the early 00's, the Patriots in 07, the Broncos in 13. They all got beat by defences.

    The 53-9 thing doesn't make a difference to me, whether they lost by a total of 2 points or 44 points, they still went 0-2.

  2. #17
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    Fangio isn't Bellichick and is one of the most honest coaches to the media in the NFL. Rumors in Denver were that Lock didn't know the offense at all in training camp. Understandable considering he took like 5 snaps under center and never called plays in college. When Lock came back Fangio said that Lock showed a lot of progress and used his time off really well.

    "Sometimes a banana is just a banana" - Freud.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Just a couple of stubborn old men who are afraid to admit how horrifically wrong they were about Flacco and how badly they fungled the entire Lock situation since he was drafted.
    Not in my book. I've seen and can remember most of their moves the last couple years and they have played the cards they were dealt. They tried to improve the team with the variables at their disposal. The QB market the last few years has been below average. I'm glad they let Cousins and Foles slip away. Not much they could do but make moves and try to find a combination that worked. Not unlike 31 other teams in the league. A lot of issues after the SB win that started with Kubes stepping down and OZ heading to Houston. As for Lock, he's a 2nd rnd draft pick. Giving him some time to acclimate, might just have saved his NFL career.

  4. #19
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    A quarterback or any player that someone states, claims, professes is "franchise" after their rookie season might end up eating their words.

    IMO a player has to prove they are "franchise" based on many quality attributes/skills including leadership and stats. It takes at least 2 years or more (Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Von Miller, TD, Elway etc) to establish themselves and are accurately viewed as "franchise" by fans, coaches, GM's, IMO.

    When the 2020 season (if it happens) gets rolling and maybe not until we move well into the 2021 season will anybody actually be able to state with absolute certainty if Lock is or isn't a franchise QB.
    Last edited by jazzbodog; 03-26-2020 at 09:55 AM.
    Utah Bronco Freak

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbodog View Post
    A quarterback or any player that someone states, claims, professes is "franchise" after their rookie season might end up eating their words.

    IMO a player has to prove they are "franchise" based on many quality attributes/skills including leadership and stats. It takes at least 2 years or more (Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Von Miller, TD, Elway etc) to establish themselves and are accurately viewed as "franchise" by fans, coaches, GM's, IMO.

    When the 2020 season (if it happens) gets rolling and maybe not until we move well into the 2021 season will anybody actually be able to state with absolute certainty if Lock is or isn't a franchise QB.
    As long as Buzz Lightyear stays in touch with Star Command, I'm not inclined to worry.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbodog View Post
    A quarterback or any player that someone states, claims, professes is "franchise" after their rookie season might end up eating their words.

    IMO a player has to prove they are "franchise" based on many quality attributes/skills including leadership and stats. It takes at least 2 years or more (Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Von Miller, TD, Elway etc) to establish themselves and are accurately viewed as "franchise" by fans, coaches, GM's, IMO.

    When the 2020 season (if it happens) gets rolling and maybe not until we move well into the 2021 season will anybody actually be able to state with absolute certainty if Lock is or isn't a franchise QB.
    To each their own but I think Lock has displayed tremendous leadership dating back to his days in college as a freshman. The shot in the arm he gave the team when he took over was similar to when Manning relieved Osweiler against the Chargers. Now he does need to prove he can sustain it over the course of a full season where he will face adversity and low points, thatíll be his true test. But i wouldnít fault anyone for believing him to be a franchise QB. In his short career so far heís displayed incredible physical ability, a great work ethic, humility, transparency, and leadership. His teammates responded in a very positive fashion for him and things seemed to click once he came in. Plus having Manning in his corner to bridge some of the mental gaps will only help.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    To each their own but I think Lock has displayed tremendous leadership dating back to his days in college as a freshman. The shot in the arm he gave the team when he took over was similar to when Manning relieved Osweiler against the Chargers. Now he does need to prove he can sustain it over the course of a full season where he will face adversity and low points, thatíll be his true test. But i wouldnít fault anyone for believing him to be a franchise QB. In his short career so far heís displayed incredible physical ability, a great work ethic, humility, transparency, and leadership. His teammates responded in a very positive fashion for him and things seemed to click once he came in. Plus having Manning in his corner to bridge some of the mental gaps will only help.
    Manning?In what capacity?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieBronco76 View Post
    Manning?In what capacity?
    Lock said Peyton has given him hours of advice on things like how to prepare and study film.

  9. #24
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    https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...240801901.html

    i am just gonna post that with Quotes of lock talking about how he has been talking to Peyton Manning

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieBronco76 View Post
    Manning?In what capacity?
    Lombardi then asked if Manning had given Lock any advice.

    “We’ve been on the phone multiple times,” Lock said. “We’ve gone over everything from A-to-Z on what you should do in this offseason. When you should get your receivers together, your regiment of throwing, lifting, everything.

    “He’s been such a big help to me this offseason, my first one to really get me going.”

    Read more here: https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...#storylink=cpy

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    It takes more than building an offense. If Denver (or any team) think that they need to build an offense to keep up with KC they're probably going to end up lagging behind a bunch of teams. And I would argue Denver needed to improve all 3 phases of the team, not just the offense, although it was the furthest behind.

    KC is just another in the long line of high scoring offences, if you go back to the Rams of the early 00's, the Chefs of the early 00's, the Patriots in 07, the Broncos in 13. They all got beat by defences.

    The 53-9 thing doesn't make a difference to me, whether they lost by a total of 2 points or 44 points, they still went 0-2.
    The difference between losing by 44 or 2 pts is the team that loses by 44 doesnít belong on the field with the other team. The team that loses by 2 is close and can compete. I want us to compete with KC, we are 1-9 the last five years vs them. Our defense is way ahead of our offense right now.

    vs KC last year:
    Offense 4.5 pts scored a game

    Defense 23 pts allowed per game ( KC defense scored a td vs us in the first game)

    The last game we played against the Chiefs in their house ended in a 23-3 loss. Our defense kept us in that game and our offense could only manage a field goal drive. This offense needs help on the oline and a receiver who can take the top off a defense.

    The teams you mention all were stopped by defense, the Chiefs faced one of the leagues best defenses and beat them in the Suprerbowl.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    The difference between losing by 44 or 2 pts is the team that loses by 44 doesn’t belong on the field with the other team. The team that loses by 2 is close and can compete. I want us to compete with KC, we are 1-9 the last five years vs them. Our defense is way ahead of our offense right now.

    vs KC last year:
    Offense 4.5 pts scored a game

    Defense 23 pts allowed per game ( KC defense scored a td vs us in the first game)

    The last game we played against the Chiefs in their house ended in a 23-3 loss. Our defense kept us in that game and our offense could only manage a field goal drive. This offense needs help on the oline and a receiver who can take the top off a defense.

    The teams you mention all were stopped by defense, the Chiefs faced one of the leagues best defenses and beat them in the Suprerbowl.
    If the team is chasing KC then they're chasing ghosts. KC in 2020 is entirely different than 2019, as is Denver. Build the team up to it's best and look to compete with EVERY team in 2020. Not chasing KC from 2019.

    And that defense had KC beat, until Shanahan started working his best to give KC's offense more opportunities. A team who's identity was running the ball started trying to pass nonstop, while having the lead, and trying to bleed the clock.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Also true, however you have to admit the whole situation did not add up. I believe Elway wanted to avoid fans becoming unruly demanding Lock play while Flacco was healthy and we were losing. I also believe Elway still thinks the best approach to developing quarterbacks is by sitting them on the sideline, and I think that was probably a part of the equation too, despite it being proven to be a failed approach.

    I also find it funny Elway and Fangio have gone out of their way on numerous occasions to mention that Lock sitting for the first half of the season was great for him, and alluding to it being the reason Lock was successful to finish the year. I think they know that the Flacco move was a failure, and matching up Scrangerello and his style of offense to Flacco was beyond stupid. I think they themselves probably feel like holding Lock off and sticking with Flacco for so long was the wrong move, and Lock probably should of been playing earlier.
    It is not a failed approach to sit a QB. I think many forget that P.Mahomeboy sat for nearly an entire year. Also we've seen these sure thing QBs simply not produce when they been thrown into the fire: RG3, Josh Rosen and others. I mean we can also argue that A.Luck underperformed. The truth from my perspective is that more and more college QBs are coming into the league capable of throwing the football due to spread offenses. So we are seeing a bunch of really good. What we are still only seeing in small amounts are the really great or excellent. For example - is Dak Prescott excellent? what about Porn Star Jimmy G? Heck what about Matt Ryan? - by my account they are all really good. They are not capable of elevating players like TB or PM.

    So is it a good idea to sit a QB....for some yes. P.Mahomes is an example of that working. Others and for other teams....maybe not but of those who have not sat...who's won a SB?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    If the team is chasing KC then they're chasing ghosts. KC in 2020 is entirely different than 2019, as is Denver. Build the team up to it's best and look to compete with EVERY team in 2020. Not chasing KC from 2019.

    And that defense had KC beat, until Shanahan started working his best to give KC's offense more opportunities. A team who's identity was running the ball started trying to pass nonstop, while having the lead, and trying to bleed the clock.
    And thatís why we need to build our offense. We couldnít move the ball vs them last year. No matter how good our defense is we canít have an offense scoring 3 pts and giving Mahomes and co. Endless opportunities.

    The 2020 Chiefs may not be the 2019 but they are defending champs, and they still have Mahomes, Kielce, and Hill.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 03-26-2020 at 06:39 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    It is not a failed approach to sit a QB. I think many forget that P.Mahomeboy sat for nearly an entire year. Also we've seen these sure thing QBs simply not produce when they been thrown into the fire: RG3, Josh Rosen and others. I mean we can also argue that A.Luck underperformed. The truth from my perspective is that more and more college QBs are coming into the league capable of throwing the football due to spread offenses. So we are seeing a bunch of really good. What we are still only seeing in small amounts are the really great or excellent. For example - is Dak Prescott excellent? what about Porn Star Jimmy G? Heck what about Matt Ryan? - by my account they are all really good. They are not capable of elevating players like TB or PM.

    So is it a good idea to sit a QB....for some yes. P.Mahomes is an example of that working. Others and for other teams....maybe not but of those who have not sat...who's won a SB?
    From what I saw of Lock last year I think the team played it perfect. If he didnít injure his thumb he probably would have taken over a lot sooner, but he still got 5 games under his belt and now he goes into 2020 as the teamís starter, he will get all the 1st team reps. Canít wait for the draft and the season to start!

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