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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    ........


    Nah
    Agreed!.......

  2. #182
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    What we can talk about, that might be more realistic, is bringing back Keenum for backup.

    I would support it. He has experience anand success in this offense, and on a personal level he's a great teammate. Really nice guy who would gladly accept the backup role and go out of his way to help Lock.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    He’s collecting minimum pay and playing video games all day. He Should use some of that money and go back to school for gaming design since that’s what he’s so into.
    or just make a move to esports like Jay Ajayi, or he probably isn't good enough for that

    i wouldn't mind us taking a QB just some one in the later rounds who projects more to be a career back up to compete with allen.
    Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 01-14-2020 at 03:34 PM.

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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    He’s collecting minimum pay and playing video games all day. He Should use some of that money and go back to school for gaming design since that’s what he’s so into.
    Gaming design takes a lot of work and thought and hours. I doubt he’d excel at that haha. It kind of irks me when guys win the genetic lottery, are handed a golden ticket, and they treat it like dirt. Just goes to show that attitude and aptitude are worth just as much if not more than physical stature.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    No one is saying he lit the world on fire, just that he impressed and improved at a tangible rate. He looked wildly better that all of those QBs in their first 5 starts, what are you talking about?

    Maybe you're confusing stat lines with good play? Even that would be confusing as Lock's stacks up better than Siemien's and significantl, significantly better than Allen's first 5.
    Wildly better ? No he didn't. Agreed with the tangible improvement comment, and I have pretty much said he should be the unquestioned starter, with every resource placed behind him moving forward, but you get so one sided on these quarterback debates. I was also a huge fan of his in college, thought he was a better prospect than Daniel Jones, and believe he out performed Jones as a rookie. I also have said I think he is the most promising from this previous class of quarterbacks. But don't make the argument about anything other than me responding to the specific point of Lock would of been a top ten guy in retrospect, no one believes that right now outside of Denver. PS: People who didn't watch these other guys, like you, shouldn't make these sort of comments.

    People were talking about Allen replacing Cam long term, Siemian starter well winning games as well, and to say "significantly, significantly better", do your research please. Allen went 4-1 in his first 5 starts with 7 touchdowns to 3 interceptions, and a completion percentage of 62%. Siemien in his first 5 starts also went 4-1, with 7 touchdowns to 3 interceptions, and a completion percentage of 65%. Now, Lock, oh look at that, same record, same touchdown to interception ratio, with a 64% completion percentage, as someone said, look at the record and we have our answer, not so much. Also, significant, might need to re-think the use of that word moving forward. And don't tell me you now love the eye test over statistics after the way you carried on about Flacco and the statistical love affair you had with posting that every other day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel B. View Post
    He didn't 'light it up' because of our former OC.

    Lock should and could have easily averaged 300yrds passing but then Scangarello would go into a shell after the 1st quarter.

    Lock 'looks' the part...the former OC's play calling was holding him and the offense back. My biggest worry going into next season with Scangarello was that if he (Scangarello) didn't improve as an OC then he would stunt Lock's growth & development.
    Agreed, I was one of very few calling for Scangarello to be moved on from all season long. I also believe Lock is on an upward trajectory and the future here, or he at least should be supported as such until he proves otherwise. I am not saying I do not like Lock, I was responding to one comment about Lock being a top ten guy in retrospect, that is all, and how naturally this fan base, like all do,m overrates the performance of their own guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    Christ man what did you expect to see from a rookie coming from a college offense, and whom was injured in preseason and spent the first 11 weeks of the season on IR, unable to practice, unable to run the offense with the team, unable to throw passes to the receivers, unable to take any part at all in practice including snaps, walk throughs or installments...nothing

    and then came in with a weeks practice as the starter and beat the 6th ranked total defense in the chargers

    the kid went 4-1 as the starter with very little time to even learn the offense....he beat 4 of the five teams the league put in front of him and yet your dismayed because he didn't look like brady in his prime
    No, I responded to one comment saying he would of been top ten in retrospect, in order to make that claim I think you would need to see Lock light it up and dominated, he didn't. But, you are putting words in my mouth. Lock actually exceeded my expectations, his maturity and poise displayed was not typical of your average rookie quarterback, and that is where you can see the growth from Missouri to the NFL. I like Lock, have said over and over that he should be the unquestioned starter going into next year, and that should be the plan. I agree with all you said, except for the bit where you act like I said something else and carry on with your emojis and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Last year's QB class is likely stronger, not weaker, than this one. Burrow is the one solid prospect. Herbert has bust written all over him and I have never been a believer in Tua. The amount of wide open plays he has had is staggering, plus, the injuries? Reminds me of a less athletic RG3. Lock falling last year is more an indictment on league talent evaluators than his own talent.
    Disagree. Lock fell right to where he belonged, and if anything guys like Haskins and Jones were over valued. Lock had a very inconsistent college career, very, that is why he fell. Lock had a lot of bad tape, halves of football not getting a first down, head scratcher decisions, and wasn't very reliable. In a league desperate for quarterbacks, for Lock to fall to where he did, it said that his value wasn't where fans thought it was. We got a good deal with picking him up in the second round though, but the market told us his value, and that was a second round pick, no sugar coating it beyond that. Especially at a position guys are historically over drafted at frequently.

    Quote Originally Posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    I don’t care about stats either. I also agree that Lock didn’t necessarily “light it up”. Still, I think he showed way more in my eye test that any QB for a long time. Siemian wasn’t nearly as talented or capable of making plays. The kid showed some serious promise in my eyes. For a rookie who was stashed on IR, he certainly came in an immediately prepared and conducted himself like a starter.

    He is reaching out to resources around him. He is taking the offseason seriously. He plays with grit and passion. I don’t care about where he should potentially be drafted this year. Transitioning to the NFL is a real thing - not everybody can do it. IMO, Lock showed real promise in the transition department.

    Your eye doesn’t see that. I get it. I honestly wouldn’t put it passed this FO to move on from him. I just personally think he’s worth a serious shot.
    I agree with exactly everything you said here, and have said exactly these things all over the forum for the last month or so. I was just specifically making point to the one quote saying he was a top ten pick in retrospect, that is all. Lock earned the off-season to prove himself as the starter, without having to look over his shoulder in a quarterback competition, his poise and awareness was much better than a typical rookie quarterback.

  6. #186
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    Officially official

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by maaskesr View Post
    The only way I see us taking a QB in the draft is if one falls (Tua?) and we pick them up as a prospect/backup past the 1st round. But it seems foolish to take a 2nd or even 3rd rounder when we have other holes.

    We need WR/OL/CB. It's pretty obvious where our picks and FA should lean.
    Obviously late to this party, upgrading at OC tells me we're picking the best direction for our new QB and wanting to win now IMO.

    Shurmur > Scangs...

    There is not another QB on this roster worth keeping, clean house and try again. Draft in this order, OL, DB, LB, QB, BPA... Get a punter
    [

  8. #188
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    Another positive is that we will see halftime adjustments. Heck we will probably see adjustments during the game something scrag never did. There was a reason the offense was so bad because he would never adjust.

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  9. #189
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    When you look at thos guys resume he is basically the same as Ric S. This to me is the equivalent of when we moved from Case to Joe....same resume and same or worse results.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Interesting take by that writer, not sure where he pulled that junk about the tight-ends from, complete load of crap from every angle possible. In 2017 Shurmur had Kyle Rudolph record 57 catches for 532 yards with no other tight-end talent on the roster. In 2018 Evan Engram had 45 catches for 577 yards, and Rhett Elisson had 25 catches for 272 yards. In 2019 Evan Engram had 44 catches for 467 yards, and Rhett Elisson had 18 catches for 167 yards. These are his recent results of individual tight-end production.

    "Not as utilised as often as Scangarello would of" ? Denver this past season targeted one of their top 2 tight ends 107 times, dwarfed by New York and Shurmur who targeted their top 2 guys 140 times, for the 7th most in the league. If we look back to 2018 as well Shurmur and his offense targeted tight-ends the 10th most in the NFL, again more often than Denver this past season. Maybe this writer looked at just 2017 with the Vikings when they went to their top 2 tight-ends only 97 times, but this claim is pure junk.

    Again pointing to this writer being a complete fool, Shurmur has a background as a tight-end coach, I am sure he believes the position is valuable, this writer is a deadset idiot. I also went back and looked at Shurmurs last stint as an offensive coordinator with the Eagles and the tight-end production in those years. In 2013 through 2015, this is where his offense ranked in terms of targeting the top 2 tight-ends.

    2015: 5th most targets in the NFL
    2014: 6th most targets in the NFL
    2013:13th most targets in the NFL

    Now, when you add all this up, and consider his history as a tight-end coach, I think it is safe to say this writer has no clue what he is talking about. With guys like Zach Ertz, Evan Engram, and Kyle Rudolph flourishing in Shurmurs offense in recent times, along with Shurmurs history as a tight-end coach, I think you could write an article saying the complete opposite to this fan writer. I think we could look at Fant as potentially being a huge beneficiary of this move if anything.
    Good, thanks for collecting the info and posting it here. I don't know much about Shurmur's tendencies and I haven't had time to go digging. The writer did say that Shurmur would use Fant (that should be obvious to anyone though) but I was more concerned with his notion that TE depth and FB talent will be all but meaningless. I'd like to think that an experienced coach like Shurmur is going to use what we already have.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    When you look at thos guys resume he is basically the same as Ric S. This to me is the equivalent of when we moved from Case to Joe....same resume and same or worse results.
    Please explain to me how they have a simular resume. Rich has never been a coordinator before us in the nfl. Shurmer has been a very successful coordinator at multi stops. Has has 6 years an oc and 4 years as a hc in the nfl rich had none of that. He has worked a coordinator spot beyond college before this year. Please tell me how they have the same resume?

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  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    When you look at thos guys resume he is basically the same as Ric S. This to me is the equivalent of when we moved from Case to Joe....same resume and same or worse results.
    You're going to have to do a lot in order to sell me on that comparison. Basically the same resume as Scangerello?

    Scangerello, who we hired with 0 years of experience running an NFL offense and 2 total years of NFL experience carries a similar resume as Pat Shurmur? Mind you, Shurmur has over two decades of NFL coaching experience, coaching OL, QBs, TEs individually as well as running an offense for 10 years as part of five different organizations. Heck..Shurmur has more years running a top 10 offense than Scangerello had coaching in the league when he was hired by Denver!

    Not only that, but Scangerello has never elevated a player to a pro bowl or near it with his coaching. He got Nick Foles to his only pro bowl as OC in Philly and got Keenum his one pro bowl alternate spot as OC in Minnesota. I guess you can use the Mullens/Beathard example from SF, but that was more Kyle Shanahan, he was the one running the offense, just like Shurmur was in Cleveland when he got a year out of Colt McCoy that was very similar to what Shanny got out of Mullens. It was Colt's only season in the NFL worth mentioning.

    Maybe you're trying to say they run similar offenses? But that's not at all the case, either. They may be branches on the Bill Walsh tree but they run wildly different offenses. Shurmer, who learned under Reid who learned from Holmgren, is one of the biggest users of 11 personnel; Shurmer likes3 WR sets, regularly being among league leaders in that category as well as percent of pass attempts over 15 yards. Scangerello hails from the Seifert to Shannahan side of the tree. A much more "conservative" side, IMO. Still, very good offenses, but those that emphasize more 12 personnel, sacrificing a WR for a TE.

    You don't have to like the move, but to say they have similar resumes is asinine.
    Last edited by Papa-pwn; 01-14-2020 at 07:55 PM.

  13. #193
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    Good hire we now have 3 veteran coaches. Looking for a top 15 offense next year.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    When you look at thos guys resume he is basically the same as Ric S. This to me is the equivalent of when we moved from Case to Joe....same resume and same or worse results.
    Based on what ? An inexperienced coordinator with no success in the NFL what so ever, who was just fired after a year. Compared to a guy who has been the "hot coordinator" due to his offenses success multiple times now, and been promoted to head coach because of it. Also happened several times. Scangarello achieved nothing in the NFL before the promotion here, and achieved nothing after it. Shurmur has a long, successful resume, and a proven track record of positive results. Your comparison is terrible, and saying they are "basically the same" is misinformed. What coordinator would of been different to Scangarello ?

  15. #195
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    Interesting tidbit I read today about Scangarello. Regarding the opening script of plays: on script Denver was a top-15 offense, off script literally last in the league in all but rushing.

    Scangs was looking better in the latter half of the season, call it some growth, but if we're trying to get back to the play offs we can't be stunted with "on the job training."

    I'm liking this hire more and more.

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