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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    Stats may have been average but the eye test was beyond average he has a great arm and is a good athlete. He also has a great work ethic behind him the amount he changed from preseason to his first start was great. I feel he is jay cutler with a better work ethic and mentality. Which is really all cutler lacked from being an elite qb. Cutler was also taken 11th I believe. I believe if someone saw the growth he made combined with his arm talent and athletics he would have gone in the first round. He has top quality traits.
    I don't care one bit about the stats, and I don't even know what they are. We can play semantics, above average, average, whatever, but I think we will agree he did not light it up, or look anymore impressive than the other guys I mentioned in their first 5 starts. If anything he may have been less impressive for stretches, and I don't see anyone outside of those other fan bases saying the same thing about the likes of Allen, Mullen, Siemian, or Minshew. Lock has poise, all the talent, and I think he can put it together and make a good career for himself, but I don't think he is top 10 in retrospect anywhere outside of his own fan base, right now.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I don't care one bit about the stats, and I don't even know what they are. We can play semantics, above average, average, whatever, but I think we will agree he did not light it up, or look anymore impressive than the other guys I mentioned in their first 5 starts. If anything he may have been less impressive for stretches, and I don't see anyone outside of those other fan bases saying the same thing about the likes of Allen, Mullen, Siemian, or Minshew. Lock has poise, all the talent, and I think he can put it together and make a good career for himself, but I don't think he is top 10 in retrospect anywhere outside of his own fan base, right now.
    He led a bad football team to a 4-1 record. Throw everything else out the window, thatís what matters most.

  3. #153
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    I am not a huge fan of Shurmur but it is pretty obvious he is more accomplished as an offensive coach than our last OC.

    With that said imo it has been really hard imo to evaluate our OCs for years due to

    1. Lack of talent on the OL
    2. Lack of consistency on who is playing OL
    3. Lack of consistency on who is coaching the offense

    I hope my above three points change as imo this is the first offseason in a long time with a legit shot to get where we need to be.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I am not a huge fan of Shurmur but it is pretty obvious he is more accomplished as an offensive coach than our last OC.

    With that said imo it has been really hard imo to evaluate our OCs for years due to

    1. Lack of talent on the OL
    2. Lack of consistency on who is playing OL
    3. Lack of consistency on who is coaching the offense

    I hope my above three points change as imo this is the first offseason in a long time with a legit shot to get where we need to be.
    Add to that a carousel at QB and HC. The offense had been abysmal for a myriad of reasons.

    Good news is we have an exciting young nucleus that can benefit from experienced coaching. There is still some overall talent and depth issues, but the players showed a little promise down the stretch.

    We shall see what the offseason brings, but I personally think weíre finally seeing a turn in the tides. I donít see this offense instantly being top 10, but Iím expecting them to be far more competitive and enjoyable to watch.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Interesting take by that writer, not sure where he pulled that junk about the tight-ends from, complete load of crap from every angle possible. In 2017 Shurmur had Kyle Rudolph record 57 catches for 532 yards with no other tight-end talent on the roster. In 2018 Evan Engram had 45 catches for 577 yards, and Rhett Elisson had 25 catches for 272 yards. In 2019 Evan Engram had 44 catches for 467 yards, and Rhett Elisson had 18 catches for 167 yards. These are his recent results of individual tight-end production.

    "Not as utilised as often as Scangarello would of" ? Denver this past season targeted one of their top 2 tight ends 107 times, dwarfed by New York and Shurmur who targeted their top 2 guys 140 times, for the 7th most in the league. If we look back to 2018 as well Shurmur and his offense targeted tight-ends the 10th most in the NFL, again more often than Denver this past season. Maybe this writer looked at just 2017 with the Vikings when they went to their top 2 tight-ends only 97 times, but this claim is pure junk.

    Again pointing to this writer being a complete fool, Shurmur has a background as a tight-end coach, I am sure he believes the position is valuable, this writer is a deadset idiot. I also went back and looked at Shurmurs last stint as an offensive coordinator with the Eagles and the tight-end production in those years. In 2013 through 2015, this is where his offense ranked in terms of targeting the top 2 tight-ends.

    2015: 5th most targets in the NFL
    2014: 6th most targets in the NFL
    2013:13th most targets in the NFL

    Now, when you add all this up, and consider his history as a tight-end coach, I think it is safe to say this writer has no clue what he is talking about. With guys like Zach Ertz, Evan Engram, and Kyle Rudolph flourishing in Shurmurs offense in recent times, along with Shurmurs history as a tight-end coach, I think you could write an article saying the complete opposite to this fan writer. I think we could look at Fant as potentially being a huge beneficiary of this move if anything.
    Great info. I am not super excited about this potential hire, but Shurmur didn't really have a better TE to use last year than ours and they still used them more. A healthy Noah Fant is better than Evan Engram and a real weapon for Drew Lock. I am not saying Fant becomes Kittle or Kelce, but if Lock can utilize him more it makes Sutton even more dangerous.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I am not a huge fan of Shurmur but it is pretty obvious he is more accomplished as an offensive coach than our last OC.

    With that said imo it has been really hard imo to evaluate our OCs for years due to

    1. Lack of talent on the OL
    2. Lack of consistency on who is playing OL
    3. Lack of consistency on who is coaching the offense

    I hope my above three points change as imo this is the first offseason in a long time with a legit shot to get where we need to be.
    Pfffft cuz clearly the players on this team are fine and haven't been the problem, we just need better coaching and we are super bowl bound for the next decade.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I don't care one bit about the stats, and I don't even know what they are. We can play semantics, above average, average, whatever, but I think we will agree he did not light it up, or look anymore impressive than the other guys I mentioned in their first 5 starts. If anything he may have been less impressive for stretches, and I don't see anyone outside of those other fan bases saying the same thing about the likes of Allen, Mullen, Siemian, or Minshew. Lock has poise, all the talent, and I think he can put it together and make a good career for himself, but I don't think he is top 10 in retrospect anywhere outside of his own fan base, right now.
    I donít care about stats either. I also agree that Lock didnít necessarily ďlight it upĒ. Still, I think he showed way more in my eye test that any QB for a long time. Siemian wasnít nearly as talented or capable of making plays. The kid showed some serious promise in my eyes. For a rookie who was stashed on IR, he certainly came in an immediately prepared and conducted himself like a starter.

    He is reaching out to resources around him. He is taking the offseason seriously. He plays with grit and passion. I donít care about where he should potentially be drafted this year. Transitioning to the NFL is a real thing - not everybody can do it. IMO, Lock showed real promise in the transition department.

    Your eye doesnít see that. I get it. I honestly wouldnít put it passed this FO to move on from him. I just personally think heís worth a serious shot.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by WYBRONCO View Post
    Great info. I am not super excited about this potential hire, but Shurmur didn't really have a better TE to use last year than ours and they still used them more. A healthy Noah Fant is better than Evan Engram and a real weapon for Drew Lock. I am not saying Fant becomes Kittle or Kelce, but if Lock can utilize him more it makes Sutton even more dangerous.
    Donít forget about the versatility of Beck and also Austin Fort coming back. Heck even Jeff Heuerman May look good if heís brought back.

  9. #159
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    If Shurmur is as good as advertised, hopefully it means the Broncos wonít lose their OC to a HC job any time soon.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I wonít Back Down.
    No Matter How Stupid Your Comments Are!
    Still Not Backing Down!!!

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I don't think that is necessarily true, but the big advantage to Lock is, he is already here, and that 15th overall pick would be able to be spent elsewhere. But if Lock is available against this class of prospects, I don't know if he stacks up as a top 15 pick, like he didn't last year in a weaker quarterback class.
    Last year's QB class is likely stronger, not weaker, than this one. Burrow is the one solid prospect. Herbert has bust written all over him and I have never been a believer in Tua. The amount of wide open plays he has had is staggering, plus, the injuries? Reminds me of a less athletic RG3. Lock falling last year is more an indictment on league talent evaluators than his own talent.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Doubtful. I think Lock done well, especially in the circumstances, but he didn't light the world on fire like people are acting like he did. Don't get me wrong, I think he is the starter moving forward, and earned every chance to be the guy here next year, but he didn't light it up.

    I think Lock was poised, showed great awareness, flashed his talent, and he managed the games well. But outside of one half of football against Houston, I wouldn't say he looked anything more than average, or any better than Siemian did in his first 5 starts, than Mullins in his first 5 starts, than Minshew in his first 5 starts, or Allen in his first 5 starts. I get we are all encouraged, but I don't think he lit it up to the point of saying what you said here.
    No one is saying he lit the world on fire, just that he impressed and improved at a tangible rate. He looked wildly better that all of those QBs in their first 5 starts, what are you talking about?

    Maybe you're confusing stat lines with good play? Even that would be confusing as Lock's stacks up better than Siemien's and significantl, significantly better than Allen's first 5.
    Last edited by Papa-pwn; 01-14-2020 at 08:13 AM.

  12. #162
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    I think Vic Fangio is impressed with Shurmur's expertise as an offensive coordinator based on the times he called D against him. When the Giants fired him, Fangio thought he would be a proven upgrade as OC. It will be interesting to see what he does with Denver's O.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Doubtful. I think Lock done well, especially in the circumstances, but he didn't light the world on fire like people are acting like he did. Don't get me wrong, I think he is the starter moving forward, and earned every chance to be the guy here next year, but he didn't light it up.

    I think Lock was poised, showed great awareness, flashed his talent, and he managed the games well. But outside of one half of football against Houston, I wouldn't say he looked anything more than average, or any better than Siemian did in his first 5 starts, than Mullins in his first 5 starts, than Minshew in his first 5 starts, or Allen in his first 5 starts. I get we are all encouraged, but I don't think he lit it up to the point of saying what you said here.
    He didn't 'light it up' because of our former OC.

    Lock should and could have easily averaged 300yrds passing but then Scangarello would go into a shell after the 1st quarter.

    Lock 'looks' the part...the former OC's play calling was holding him and the offense back. My biggest worry going into next season with Scangarello was that if he (Scangarello) didn't improve as an OC then he would stunt Lock's growth & development.


    Special thanks to Sam_Z for the SB rings collage above

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I don't care one bit about the stats, and I don't even know what they are. We can play semantics, above average, average, whatever, but I think we will agree he did not light it up, or look anymore impressive than the other guys I mentioned in their first 5 starts. If anything he may have been less impressive for stretches, and I don't see anyone outside of those other fan bases saying the same thing about the likes of Allen, Mullen, Siemian, or Minshew. Lock has poise, all the talent, and I think he can put it together and make a good career for himself, but I don't think he is top 10 in retrospect anywhere outside of his own fan base, right now.
    Christ man what did you expect to see from a rookie coming from a college offense, and whom was injured in preseason and spent the first 11 weeks of the season on IR, unable to practice, unable to run the offense with the team, unable to throw passes to the receivers, unable to take any part at all in practice including snaps, walk throughs or installments...nothing

    and then came in with a weeks practice as the starter and beat the 6th ranked total defense in the chargers

    the kid went 4-1 as the starter with very little time to even learn the offense....he beat 4 of the five teams the league put in front of him and yet your dismayed because he didn't look like brady in his prime

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by MH Stampede View Post
    Brady's done.

    I watched a couple pats games this year. Watching Tommy was deja vu to watching Manning his last year. Not much zip, rarely made plays downfield. With only one reliable target in Edelman, Brady simply wasnt up to the task of making any other receiver into a consistent threat.

    Oh he may play again, but his days of being the primary reason for winning games is long gone.
    I agree! The end is nigh........ I would say he was 2015 Manning bad. Maybe end of 2014 Manning or definitely on par with the way Phyllis looked this year and coming really close to what we got from Flacco. As great as heís been, I donít want any parts of another twilight vet. We donít have the team to support him like we had with 15í Manning. 2020 with Brady would look exactly like what we had with Flacco in 2019. And not worth sitting our new QB who looked very good in those last 5 games.

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