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  1. #61
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    I think having 2 WRs to keep defense's honest is a must. They already know how good Sutton is and Fant showed some serious next level skill (although still needs to improve). If we can add another threat defenses would have nightmares trying to figure out how and what to shut down. They would have to choose pass or run, wouldn't be able to stop both!!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    I think having 2 WRs to keep defense's honest is a must. They already know how good Sutton is and Fant showed some serious next level skill (although still needs to improve). If we can add another threat defenses would have nightmares trying to figure out how and what to shut down. They would have to choose pass or run, wouldn't be able to stop both!!
    I guess I just need to see an example of where this worked outside of theory. KC has Hill and Kelce (Watkins is in no way above average imo). I would say teams with ghreat defenses actually score more than teams with great WRs. Balt and SF did finish 1-2 in scoring and the average NFL could not even name one of their WRs.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    I guess I just need to see an example of where this worked outside of theory. KC has Hill and Kelce (Watkins is in no way above average imo). I would say teams with ghreat defenses actually score more than teams with great WRs. Balt and SF did finish 1-2 in scoring and the average NFL could not even name one of their WRs.
    Not even deebo or marquis brown?

  4. #64
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    I am admittedly enamored with the possibilities if the Broncos select one of the top WRs. The talent is there and the need is evident. Same as I was enamored with the possibilities of D. Bush making to the Broncos last draft. Talent/ need... Hope Elway doesn’t disappoint me again.

    I’m not comparing to SB teams or the highest offensive productions. No historical data to support my opinion.

    I’m looking at this team, this year. For the past couple seasons, this team struggles to score 17pts a game. This team needs to score more points. This team currently has one WR threat and multiple role players that Bronco fans would have a tough time remembering their names let alone the casual national fan.

    I see a Bronco roster capable of being competitive if they can somehow reach that league average of offensive production.

    ONE of the missing pieces is another outside threat to compliment Sutton. Theoretically there should be one elite opportunity waiting for them at #15. I am comfortable with that pick, isn’t that what the draft is for? If the FO in all their wisdom feels they can find a suitable option by trading down or in the 2nd or 3rd rd , then so be it.

    Just as long as they fill that missing link and score some points this coming season.
    Last edited by FR Tim; 04-06-2020 at 07:40 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    I guess I just need to see an example of where this worked outside of theory. KC has Hill and Kelce (Watkins is in no way above average imo). I would say teams with ghreat defenses actually score more than teams with great WRs. Balt and SF did finish 1-2 in scoring and the average NFL could not even name one of their WRs.
    Watkins may not be a great WR but he’s also another WR that has speed to burn as well as Mecole Hardman. Not to sound like Al Davis but when you have that much speed at WR it absolutely forces defense to defend you in a way that they may not necessarily be comfortable doing.

    The issue from having two high profile WRs comes in the form of their attitudes and wanting to get the most looks on the team. I think that handicapped Mayfield last season and even Cousins struggled with it last season. But in this instance we’d have a young WR who’s ascending and would be adding a rookie WR. Attitudes shouldn’t be an issue with them at this point and growing together should mitigate that ala Fitzgerald and Boldin way back when. Although it will be difficult to allocate that much money towards the position later down the road.

    I know it’s still theory but I do believe it’s a sound theory.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    I think the WR position in general is something fans and some GMs get over enamored with. We had three great WRs and a great TE (DT, Decker, Welker and J Thomas at TE)...completely shut down in SB. Fans seem to forget how absolutely loaded we were at the skill position.

    WRs are going the way of the RB, NE shows us by rotating guys in and out of their system. They have one staple, it was Welker and then Edelmann, add in a dynamic TE and they were good to go. Before Gronk it was Moss and Welker, before Moss and Welker it was a bunch of avg guys.

    Point being, you only need two great pass receivers, we have Sutton and Fant (in theory), this is even more true when you havd a great pass catching option at RB. I really can't think of any teams that had great success paying for multiple Wrs.
    Although I realize that RBs can be receivers, as long as this is a passer driven league, WRs will be important. RBs are losing value in terms of one back led teams, but I don't see how interchanging WRs is the future. Your top receivers should be on the field most of the game.

    Sorry, still having trouble using the Sutton/Fant example. I know it's theory, but it just doesn't resonate in this argument. I know what you mean. But even Sutton has some growth ahead. Though I do see him as a long term star.

    And I am not advocating 2 "great" receivers, although this could be subjective. I want 2 really good WRs, a solid TE (and backup), and some decent complementary WRs.

    The importance of WR weapons was no clearer than one of the reasons why Brady did the unthinkable...leaving NE. Had he another good WR, or two (and that may include TE), he'd probably still be there. Might have translated to a SB last year or this coming year.

    I also think GB had a real shot with someone good to support Adams. Not that they were a total team, but still.

    And as for us not winning the SB with all those quality receivers, well now, we made it to The Dance, and 30 other teams could not say that. That's when it comes down to who was better on a given day, and had more of a total team in the crunch.

    Bottom line, passers are prime, receivers are prime, and Tom Brady is excited with his new cast in Tampa.

  7. #67
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    Undermining the value of a WR would be a mistake. If we miss out on an elite prospect out of the top 3, I’m more than okay with a complimentary WR2 piece out of the Tier 2 WRs. It is unrealistic, however, to expect a 3rd-4th round receiver to start right away. Even some of the Tier 2 WRs (Aiyuk, Hamler, Shenault Jr., Tyler Johnson, etc.) may not be ready to start against pro defenses in Year 1.

    I’m all for building OL and we do have a hole at the starting center position right now. But to be satisfied with only Sutton and Fant as our primary receiving options would come back to haunt us in the middle of the season when defenses key in on those two guys and we fail to move the ball downfield. I like Hamilton and Patrick, but they are not game-breakers nor will they make defenses respect them (I have faith in Hamilton emerging as our slot guy this year though). Pat Shurmur uses a ton of 3-WR sets. We need at least one of those receivers to stretch defenses and open up the field for us. One of Jeudy/Ruggs/Lamb will benefit our offense greatly.

    As FR Tim said, we struggled to put points on the board. If I remember correctly, I believe it was “24” that was the magic number for our offense. And even 24.0 PPG would be good for 12th in the NFL. Above average, but still behind KC (29.9). Additionally, if I recall correctly— OT was not such a glaring liability after Lock took over. Yes, his mobility helped a lot. But he was still getting decent protection and not running for his life in those 5 starts.

    Per Pro Football Reference:

    Flacco (8 games) - 26 sacks allowed
    Lock (5 games) - 5 sacks allowed
    Allen (3 games) - 8 sacks allowed

    My point is, OT is not such a huge need when juxtaposed next to WR. Of course, the positional value of a franchise OT is much greater than that of a franchise WR. I would trust a 1st round WR making a greater impact Year 1 than a 1st round OT simply because I don’t think they can beat out Bolles in TC or preseason. There’s just a more clear path for a starting opportunity at WR. I would rather take developmental OT in the 2nd/3rd round like Niang or Peart and develop him for 2021 when Bolles’ rookie deal expires.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
    Undermining the value of a WR would be a mistake. If we miss out on an elite prospect out of the top 3, I’m more than okay with a complimentary WR2 piece out of the Tier 2 WRs. It is unrealistic, however, to expect a 3rd-4th round receiver to start right away. Even some of the Tier 2 WRs (Aiyuk, Hamler, Shenault Jr., Tyler Johnson, etc.) may not be ready to start against pro defenses in Year 1.

    I’m all for building OL and we do have a hole at the starting center position right now. But to be satisfied with only Sutton and Fant as our primary receiving options would come back to haunt us in the middle of the season when defenses key in on those two guys and we fail to move the ball downfield. I like Hamilton and Patrick, but they are not game-breakers nor will they make defenses respect them (I have faith in Hamilton emerging as our slot guy this year though). Pat Shurmur uses a ton of 3-WR sets. We need at least one of those receivers to stretch defenses and open up the field for us. One of Jeudy/Ruggs/Lamb will benefit our offense greatly.

    As FR Tim said, we struggled to put points on the board. If I remember correctly, I believe it was “24” that was the magic number for our offense. And even 24.0 PPG would be good for 12th in the NFL. Above average, but still behind KC (29.9). Additionally, if I recall correctly— OT was not such a glaring liability after Lock took over. Yes, his mobility helped a lot. But he was still getting decent protection and not running for his life in those 5 starts.

    Per Pro Football Reference:

    Flacco (8 games) - 26 sacks allowed
    Lock (5 games) - 5 sacks allowed
    Allen (3 games) - 8 sacks allowed

    My point is, OT is not such a huge need when juxtaposed next to WR. Of course, the positional value of a franchise OT is much greater than that of a franchise WR. I would trust a 1st round WR making a greater impact Year 1 than a 1st round OT simply because I don’t think they can beat out Bolles in TC or preseason. There’s just a more clear path for a starting opportunity at WR. I would rather take developmental OT in the 2nd/3rd round like Niang or Peart and develop him for 2021 when Bolles’ rookie deal expires.
    I like this post for several reasons.

    But I wan to home in on what you say about sacks, and WR value vs Oliner. Lock, a newbie to the bigs, proved that a nimble, quick wristed QB can help reduce sacks. And as you probably know, he wasn't throwing pics either....just 3! So if a rookie can do it, it tells me that you can get to where you want to go, using various strategy. Not that I don't subscribe to further Oline improvement, BUT, I believe your total unit is what you need to evaluate.

    In our case, Lock provided help to the cause, using his skills/IQ. And I would go further, as you allude, and state that another quality WR will further help the cause, as Ds have more difficulty shadowing our weapons. Oh wait, then there's that Gordon guy....who instantly adds more O, and with all other changes, makes DCs on other teams stay up a little later at night.

    So when you see how a QB makes a difference all by himself ,and then you add a good RB, and likely draft a good WR, and yes....look for Oline depth...the story just keeps getting better.

    Seriously, just 5 sacks and 3 pics in 5 games....and IMPROVEMENTS on the way!!

  9. #69
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    im not for paying the price (depending) to move up but if one of the big 3 wr are there at 15....go for it. sutton had twice as many receiving yards as the next guy which was noah fant. the next closest wr didnt even play for us the whole season. gotta have more production from the rest of the recievers. i was hoping winfree wouldve had more of an impact.

  10. #70
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    Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by armedequation View Post
    im not for paying the price (depending) to move up but if one of the big 3 wr are there at 15....go for it. sutton had twice as many receiving yards as the next guy which was noah fant. the next closest wr didnt even play for us the whole season. gotta have more production from the rest of the recievers. i was hoping winfree wouldve had more of an impact.
    Maybe this year he'll see the field and start to blossom, I was excited to have this guy on our team as well.

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