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Thread: Corona virus

  1. #2086
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    So are you good with how things have gone? Highest death total in Europe, and as far as I can decipher, about 46,000 or more covid deaths in a population of approx. 68 million. Please correct me if I have inaccurate sources.

    I am not saying Canada is doing a perfect job, but we have approx 9,000 covid deaths in a population of almost 37.8 million. And I think some of it has to do with distancing and some degree of mask wearing. Again...we could have done things better, as is the case of most countries.

    But in simple mathematical terms, that's a death rate of about 5 times greater, in a population that is only about 1.8 times larger.
    With Canada. Being 41 times larger... allowing for distancing to happen naturally in many provinces
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  2. #2087
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    So are you good with how things have gone? Highest death total in Europe, and as far as I can decipher, about 46,000 or more covid deaths in a population of approx. 68 million. Please correct me if I have inaccurate sources.

    I am not saying Canada is doing a perfect job, but we have approx 9,000 covid deaths in a population of almost 37.8 million. And I think some of it has to do with distancing and some degree of mask wearing. Again...we could have done things better, as is the case of most countries.

    But in simple mathematical terms, that's a death rate of about 5 times greater, in a population that is only about 1.8 times larger.
    Yeah it has a lot to do with distancing, as in we have an enormous country. The United Kingdom is 68 million people in an area just under 243,000 square KM. Population density is 270.7 per square KM.

    Manitoba alone has an area 650,000 square KM. And a population density of 2.33 per square KM.

    If we go to the entire country we've got just under 10 million square KM of space. And a population density of 3.92 per square KM.

    I think everyone can agree it's a little easier for the virus to spread, and vulnerable people to get it, in a country that has about 69 times as many people per square KM.

    Also we have no idea how the different waves (assuming there's more) will hit in different parts of the world. So it's a little early to be patting ourselves on the back and telling other countries they didn't do well enough. For all any of us knows at this time next year we could all be wishing that we had followed Sweden.

  3. #2088
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    I would like to see a report about that, we have heard nothing about it.

    We are at a stupidly low rate of 14 positive tests per 100,000 people so life is, and rightly so, going on as normal for the vast majority of people. We have had a week of high temperatures and you should see how many people have flocked to all the hotspots. People are just living their life.
    We opened up like many countries and surprise surprise there have been no issues.
    I didn't realize you were out of the country(till after I posted that) but ....... the thrust of your post was ........don't worry -- look what we've done

    Well

    just google 'school quarantine' ...there's more than 1 story in the States
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  4. #2089
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    My girls went back to school this morning.
    I am excited for them, and I believe getting today over with will be a huge step to normal for us.

    Our school will be taking temps at drop-off (in the car) if your temp is high, you stay in the car and go home.

  5. #2090
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    With Canada. Being 41 times larger... allowing for distancing to happen naturally in many provinces
    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    So are you good with how things have gone? Highest death total in Europe, and as far as I can decipher, about 46,000 or more covid deaths in a population of approx. 68 million. Please correct me if I have inaccurate sources.

    I am not saying Canada is doing a perfect job, but we have approx 9,000 covid deaths in a population of almost 37.8 million. And I think some of it has to do with distancing and some degree of mask wearing. Again...we could have done things better, as is the case of most countries.

    But in simple mathematical terms, that's a death rate of about 5 times greater, in a population that is only about 1.8 times larger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Yeah it has a lot to do with distancing, as in we have an enormous country. The United Kingdom is 68 million people in an area just under 243,000 square KM. Population density is 270.7 per square KM.

    Manitoba alone has an area 650,000 square KM. And a population density of 2.33 per square KM.

    If we go to the entire country we've got just under 10 million square KM of space. And a population density of 3.92 per square KM.

    I think everyone can agree it's a little easier for the virus to spread, and vulnerable people to get it, in a country that has about 69 times as many people per square KM.

    Also we have no idea how the different waves (assuming there's more) will hit in different parts of the world. So it's a little early to be patting ourselves on the back and telling other countries they didn't do well enough. For all any of us knows at this time next year we could all be wishing that we had followed Sweden.
    I asked Bronx a simple question, but you appear to want to answer it partially for him by trying to make a case for Canada having it so much easier.

    Throughout his posts, he talks about how The UK is doing its thing, ignoring masks because they hate wearing them and so on. Talks about sending kids back to school. Comments about the overreaction in The US. So my main question was, are you happy with your results, given they have the highest death toll in Europe. I am not patting myself on the back, rather trying to ask another member why he feels so confident in his views on how countries should proceed. In fact, I know we have to stay on guard, and be respectful of each other, and of this ugly disease.

    Lets just throw out Canada, even though I am pretty happy with how this country has handled the covid situation. So far. I said, not perfect. Are you two? Whatever. And lets forget about Manitoba (a place I am very proud of), even though we have one city that comprises almost 2/3s of the entire population, and has had few deaths. If you have 800,000 people in a fairly dense city, and only a handful of deaths, and project that over 68 million ( the UK population), that would still be a very, very low number..

    As for The UK.....

    Italy was a disaster in the beginning and its death rate per capita is better than that of The UK. So is France, so is Spain. So is Germany. In fact, Germany's rate is more than 6 times lower. And in terms of density, I am not sure that there is an argument for The UK being denser than all these places.

    And because Bronx often mentions The US in these discussions, yes, The UK has a worse death rate as well.

    Lets be clear, this is not just down to comparing death rates. But if Bronx is clearly ok with his views on dealing with the pandemic, and is confident in his opinions of how others go about it, then my question remains....are you good with your results versus that of other dense, European countries....while experiencing a very bad 2nd quarter economically. The reason I add the economic point is that, many have argued that life must go on, for the economic well being of their homeland. Sad to say, but The UK is not faring well in terms of health and economy.

    That's the bigger picture. Lets leave out Canada. It was just a reference. I could have gone straight to Germany.
    Last edited by CanDB; 08-13-2020 at 08:56 AM.

  6. #2091
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    Quote Originally Posted by atwaterandstir View Post
    My girls went back to school this morning.
    I am excited for them, and I believe getting today over with will be a huge step to normal for us.

    Our school will be taking temps at drop-off (in the car) if your temp is high, you stay in the car and go home.
    Just abut every parent I know either wants their kid to go back to school or wants to start home schooling. None of them thought the quality of education last spring was good. They have little faith the public schools will make things better around here in the Fall.

    One of my friends almost pulled his daughter out of college. He was convinced to let her continue to get her degree by the family..the family agreed the education value will be less but the degree is something she should not put off.

    A high school teacher in the city I live in is very worried that the quality of education kids will get will be very low due to the lack of preparation and resources put into the online schooling. He thinks it will be better than the spring but he admits just about anything would be better than what went down in the spring.
    A good plan put into motion today is better than the ideal plan that is always coming sometime in the future.

  7. #2092
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    Look, I admitted this isn't a hoax. I acknowledge there is a threat out there. But, there are manipulated numbers out there....that's all I'm saying
    FYI I cherry picked parts of the articles to show one particular point...please read entire article as it contains counter opinions.

    Have you seen this. It kind of explains one possibility of where this comes from

    https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/2...nts-hospitals/

    Probable COVID-19 cases included
    Part of the concern over hospital payments is driven by the fact that the U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid has told providers they can use the COVID-19 diagnosis code for patients who not only have tested positive for the virus, but also those who are believed to likely have the respiratory disease. This is different from other illnesses, such as heart attacks, where the diagnosis is more concrete, Lonborg said.

    The reason probable cases of COVID-19 are included, she said, is because testing for the disease has been limited.
    I would suggest that maybe this stopped in end of April/May (changes state to state) based on testing becoming more available....hopefully it stopped.

    I did also find this.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/3000638001/

    He noted that some states, including his home state of Minnesota, as well as California, list only laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 diagnoses. Others, specifically New York, list all presumed cases, which is allowed under guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as of mid-April and which will result in a larger payout.
    A good plan put into motion today is better than the ideal plan that is always coming sometime in the future.

  8. #2093
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I asked Bronx a simple question, but you appear to want to answer it partially for him by trying to make a case for Canada having it so much easier.

    Throughout his posts, he talks about how The UK is doing its thing, ignoring masks because they hate wearing them and so on. Talks about sending kids back to school. Comments about the overreaction in The US. So my main question was, are you happy with your results, given they have the highest death toll in Europe. I am not patting myself on the back, rather trying to ask another member why he feels so confident in his views on how countries should proceed. In fact, I know we have to stay on guard, and be respectful of each other, and of this ugly disease.

    Lets just throw out Canada, even though I am pretty happy with how this country has handled the covid situation. So far. I said, not perfect. Are you two? Whatever. And lets forget about Manitoba (a place I am very proud of), even though we have one city that comprises almost 2/3s of the entire population, and has had few deaths. If you have 800,000 people in a fairly dense city, and only a handful of deaths, and project that over 68 million ( the UK population), that would still be a very, very low number..

    As for The UK.....

    Italy was a disaster in the beginning and its death rate per capita is better than that of The UK. So is France, so is Spain. So is Germany. In fact, Germany's rate is more than 6 times lower. And in terms of density, I am not sure that there is an argument for The UK being denser than all these places.

    And because Bronx often mentions The US in these discussions, yes, The UK has a worse death rate as well.

    Lets be clear, this is not just down to comparing death rates. But if Bronx is clearly ok with his views on dealing with the pandemic, and is confident in his opinions of how others go about it, then my question remains....are you good with your results versus that of other dense, European countries....while experiencing a very bad 2nd quarter economically. The reason I add the economic point is that, many have argued that life must go on, for the economic well being of their homeland. Sad to say, but The UK is not faring well in terms of health and economy.

    That's the bigger picture. Lets leave out Canada. It was just a reference. I could have gone straight to Germany.
    I’m sorry... apparently we cannot add to a conversation....I missed that memo...

    I don’t see where we tried to “partially answer for Bronx” but rather added to the this conversation about the Covid rates in different countries,

    Bronx can answer you points or not...in full or in part at his leisure....our comments are not a factor in that...
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  9. #2094
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I asked Bronx a simple question, but you appear to want to answer it partially for him by trying to make a case for Canada having it so much easier.

    Throughout his posts, he talks about how The UK is doing its thing, ignoring masks because they hate wearing them and so on. Talks about sending kids back to school. Comments about the overreaction in The US. So my main question was, are you happy with your results, given they have the highest death toll in Europe. I am not patting myself on the back, rather trying to ask another member why he feels so confident in his views on how countries should proceed. In fact, I know we have to stay on guard, and be respectful of each other, and of this ugly disease.

    Lets just throw out Canada, even though I am pretty happy with how this country has handled the covid situation. So far. I said, not perfect. Are you two? Whatever. And lets forget about Manitoba (a place I am very proud of), even though we have one city that comprises almost 2/3s of the entire population, and has had few deaths. If you have 800,000 people in a fairly dense city, and only a handful of deaths, and project that over 68 million ( the UK population), that would still be a very, very low number..

    As for The UK.....

    Italy was a disaster in the beginning and its death rate per capita is better than that of The UK. So is France, so is Spain. So is Germany. In fact, Germany's rate is more than 6 times lower. And in terms of density, I am not sure that there is an argument for The UK being denser than all these places.

    And because Bronx often mentions The US in these discussions, yes, The UK has a worse death rate as well.

    Lets be clear, this is not just down to comparing death rates. But if Bronx is clearly ok with his views on dealing with the pandemic, and is confident in his opinions of how others go about it, then my question remains....are you good with your results versus that of other dense, European countries....while experiencing a very bad 2nd quarter economically. The reason I add the economic point is that, many have argued that life must go on, for the economic well being of their homeland. Sad to say, but The UK is not faring well in terms of health and economy.

    That's the bigger picture. Lets leave out Canada. It was just a reference. I could have gone straight to Germany.
    First off you didn't just "ask a simple question" you asked a question and then made sure to point out how much better Canada was than the UK.

    Secondly I responded because you were essentially comparing Alaska to New York City and then wondering why NYC couldn't do as well as Alaska? Density matters, and comparing Canada to the UK in this regard was poor, as you've recognized.

    Thirdly, Canada didn't have a nationwide plan, so pointing to the Canadian way doesn't really work. We had 13 different plans (often similar in some ways) some worked well, others struggled. Overall our numbers are decent, but there are many different plans in place.

    Fourth: It's great that you're proud of Winnipeg, and you consider it quite dense, but Winnipeg has 1430 people per square KM, London has 5,666. Manchester has 4051. In addition to density being nowhere close, the total population is nowhere close. And that's not even mentioning that Winnipeg has no rapid mass transportation, whereas London has 5 million people riding the Underground every single day, about 1.4 billion trips per year. By comparison Winnipeg's bus system has 170,000 trips per day, 48.4 million per year. So you're trying to extrapolate numbers for Winnipeg over 68 million is like comparing apples to a garden hose, because the mass transit alone provides any illness the chance to spread quickly and in a wide way.

    Fifth: While I appreciate everyone has fears over Covid, and the unknown, Winnipeg has had just 284 total cases of Covid, and has just 34 active cases. I'm not sure the vigilance that you have towards it is warranted, considering the risks of interacting with someone who has it are very very low.

  10. #2095
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    I’m sorry... apparently we cannot add to a conversation....I missed that memo...

    I don’t see where we tried to “partially answer for Bronx” but rather added to the this conversation about the Covid rates in different countries,

    Bronx can answer you points or not...in full or in part at his leisure....our comments are not a factor in that...
    OK then, do you see how my response to Bronx might have merit, given his position on masks and such? Given The UK in comparison to other dense, close European countries? The Canada comparison was not a really solid one, but I updated the comparisons to better reflect my question to him. By the way, even though Canada is much less dense, I do concur with much of the approach taken across the country, though there are probably a few places that did not do as well. We have to be vigilant though.

    I am not an expert, but I have read and heard reasons for The UK not doing so well from the perspective of the covid reaction, both in terms of health and economy. Bronx is usually quite assertive, and open to debate, so I was hoping to hear from him.

    And sure, call me a homer. I love Canada! I'm good with being a homer!

    Last edited by CanDB; 08-13-2020 at 07:36 PM.

  11. #2096
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    OK then, do you see how my response to Bronx might have merit, given his position on masks and such? Given The UK in comparison to other dense, close European countries? The Canada comparison was not a really solid one, but I updated the comparisons to better reflect my question to him. By the way, even though Canada is much less dense, I do concur with much of the approach taken across the country, though there are probably a few places that did not do as well. We have to be vigilant though.

    I am not an expert, but I have read and heard reasons for The UK not doing so well from the perspective of the coivd reaction, bith in terms of health and economy. Bronx is usually quite assertive, and open to debate, so I was hoping to hear from him.

    And sure, call me a homer. I love Canada!
    One of the big problems with masks is that it gives many a false sense of security, they think they're safe and can do anything because they're protected.

    Then you've got a lot of people not knowing how to properly put on/take off their masks, how to properly wear their masks. And you've got people touching their face more because of masks.

    And of course there's the fact that recent studies have found several masks (bandanas and tube type ones) offer no protection, and make things worse because they can lead to bigger droplets becoming smaller and more abundant.

    I hate the mask bylaw in Calgary for several reasons: 1. The city has 314 active cases, we did have a spike a few weeks ago because of beaches and a bar opening their nightclub, but the numbers in the general public didn't change. So why did we all of a sudden need a mask bylaw? 2. The mask bylaw has so many exceptions, that it's ridiculous. When we had a spike in cases a few weeks ago there were 18 "outbreak" spots, 16 of those 18 wouldn't have been changed by the mask bylaw, because they all were places where exemptions existed. 3. We've seen an increase in vigilantes in public going up and yelling at and shaming people not in masks. They don't worry about those people not wearing a mask due to health conditions that prevent them from doing so, they just see people not in masks and decide it's their place to be the morality police.

    Having said that, despite having an exemption due to fairly serious asthma, I continue to wear a mask every day, mostly because it's not worth the hassle of dealing with the vigilantes.

  12. #2097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    First off you didn't just "ask a simple question" you asked a question and then made sure to point out how much better Canada was than the UK.

    Secondly I responded because you were essentially comparing Alaska to New York City and then wondering why NYC couldn't do as well as Alaska? Density matters, and comparing Canada to the UK in this regard was poor, as you've recognized.

    Thirdly, Canada didn't have a nationwide plan, so pointing to the Canadian way doesn't really work. We had 13 different plans (often similar in some ways) some worked well, others struggled. Overall our numbers are decent, but there are many different plans in place.

    Fourth: It's great that you're proud of Winnipeg, and you consider it quite dense, but Winnipeg has 1430 people per square KM, London has 5,666. Manchester has 4051. In addition to density being nowhere close, the total population is nowhere close. And that's not even mentioning that Winnipeg has no rapid mass transportation, whereas London has 5 million people riding the Underground every single day, about 1.4 billion trips per year. By comparison Winnipeg's bus system has 170,000 trips per day, 48.4 million per year. So you're trying to extrapolate numbers for Winnipeg over 68 million is like comparing apples to a garden hose, because the mass transit alone provides any illness the chance to spread quickly and in a wide way.

    Fifth: While I appreciate everyone has fears over Covid, and the unknown, Winnipeg has had just 284 total cases of Covid, and has just 34 active cases. I'm not sure the vigilance that you have towards it is warranted, considering the risks of interacting with someone who has it are very very low.
    Well now.....I don't think I can win the Winnipeg or Manitoba debate, because we are small, and unless we have zero cases, I guess one could criticize. I just offer this....how much better should we have done?? There is no answer, but when I talk to all the people I know (and yes, that's relevant), most if not all are pretty satisfied with things. If we have done well with lockdown timing, social distancing, wearing of masks, washing of hands, and so on, I am quite ok with promoting my city, province or country. Bronx seems to indicate that masks are not worn, and kids should be in school together, and in my humble opinion, those types of things may add to the rates we have discussed.

    I would argue that we received many briefings both nationally and locally since the pandemic began. It may not be as consistent a plan as you say, but it has been reasonably consistent compared to other countries I have observed. And I will dig this up, but midway through the pandemic I believe most Premiers were receiving reasonably good performance results by their provinces. That is a good sign, because polls can often be tough on elected officials, at the best of times. Polls reflect what people believe, whether the country is dense, or not, if it has a perfect plan or not, and so on.

    Recently Toronto, a city of approx. 7 million had hardly any cases. I think it was 9. That's amazing if I got it right. They struggled for a while, but they are one of the most international of cities and seem to have come to grips with things, at least temporarily.

    Further, do you want to discuss the UK situation?

    Just as an aside, I come here mostly for sports, and I think it cool that Canada got both hub cities for The NHL. And Vancouver was high in the running, but basically expected even higher standards than The NHL was willing to go. Toronto and Edmonton and Vancouver are pretty large cities, I believe The NHL looked to them given how they are handling the pandemic. And I support not playing games in Toronto, in baseball, due to the travel to and from scenario. That was a tough call, but a pretty good one in my opinion.
    Last edited by CanDB; 08-13-2020 at 08:08 PM.

  13. #2098
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I asked Bronx a simple question, but you appear to want to answer it partially for him by trying to make a case for Canada having it so much easier.

    Throughout his posts, he talks about how The UK is doing its thing, ignoring masks because they hate wearing them and so on. Talks about sending kids back to school. Comments about the overreaction in The US. So my main question was, are you happy with your results, given they have the highest death toll in Europe. I am not patting myself on the back, rather trying to ask another member why he feels so confident in his views on how countries should proceed. In fact, I know we have to stay on guard, and be respectful of each other, and of this ugly disease.

    Lets just throw out Canada, even though I am pretty happy with how this country has handled the covid situation. So far. I said, not perfect. Are you two? Whatever. And lets forget about Manitoba (a place I am very proud of), even though we have one city that comprises almost 2/3s of the entire population, and has had few deaths. If you have 800,000 people in a fairly dense city, and only a handful of deaths, and project that over 68 million ( the UK population), that would still be a very, very low number..

    As for The UK.....

    Italy was a disaster in the beginning and its death rate per capita is better than that of The UK. So is France, so is Spain. So is Germany. In fact, Germany's rate is more than 6 times lower. And in terms of density, I am not sure that there is an argument for The UK being denser than all these places.

    And because Bronx often mentions The US in these discussions, yes, The UK has a worse death rate as well.

    Lets be clear, this is not just down to comparing death rates. But if Bronx is clearly ok with his views on dealing with the pandemic, and is confident in his opinions of how others go about it, then my question remains....are you good with your results versus that of other dense, European countries....while experiencing a very bad 2nd quarter economically. The reason I add the economic point is that, many have argued that life must go on, for the economic well being of their homeland. Sad to say, but The UK is not faring well in terms of health and economy.

    That's the bigger picture. Lets leave out Canada. It was just a reference. I could have gone straight to Germany.
    Hi, I did answer the question in full but the post doesn't appear to be there anymore. Its probably another one that has been randomly deleted.

  14. #2099
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronx_2003 View Post
    Hi, I did answer the question in full but the post doesn't appear to be there anymore. Its probably another one that has been randomly deleted.
    Nothing is randomly deleted.

    This thread has stayed into the minefield of politics more than once.

  15. #2100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    One of the big problems with masks is that it gives many a false sense of security, they think they're safe and can do anything because they're protected.

    Then you've got a lot of people not knowing how to properly put on/take off their masks, how to properly wear their masks. And you've got people touching their face more because of masks.

    And of course there's the fact that recent studies have found several masks (bandanas and tube type ones) offer no protection, and make things worse because they can lead to bigger droplets becoming smaller and more abundant.

    I hate the mask bylaw in Calgary for several reasons: 1. The city has 314 active cases, we did have a spike a few weeks ago because of beaches and a bar opening their nightclub, but the numbers in the general public didn't change. So why did we all of a sudden need a mask bylaw? 2. The mask bylaw has so many exceptions, that it's ridiculous. When we had a spike in cases a few weeks ago there were 18 "outbreak" spots, 16 of those 18 wouldn't have been changed by the mask bylaw, because they all were places where exemptions existed. 3. We've seen an increase in vigilantes in public going up and yelling at and shaming people not in masks. They don't worry about those people not wearing a mask due to health conditions that prevent them from doing so, they just see people not in masks and decide it's their place to be the morality police.

    Having said that, despite having an exemption due to fairly serious asthma, I continue to wear a mask every day, mostly because it's not worth the hassle of dealing with the vigilantes.
    Hey Butler....this is just a local thing. In the paper today there's a poll about the pandemic and Manitobans had the highest score saying more should be done to prevent the spread of the virus, whereas Alberta had the highest response saying that the rules went too far. And across Canada, men were twice as likely to say current restrictions went too far. We're both men, but you're a man from Alberta. Would this poll portray your views a little?

    Just havin fun this time.

    FTR, nationally 52% said the restrictions were about right, whereas 20% said they went too far. And Manitoba's numbers reflect some fairly traceable spikes, primarily in rural areas.

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