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Thread: Corona virus

  1. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by atwaterandstir View Post
    It's time to open up our economies. I'm a business owner myself and I need to help my workers. Their families, their needs, and their pain is every bit as important as those that are sick or MAY become. Especially now that we have some combinations of treatments that have had results. A month ago we really didn't have those positive results.

    A re-focus on hand washing is what has slowed this spread. This is why I feel it was important to close schools. Kids are taught to wash their hands and told the importance of it, but there is no accountability. Many people -adults and children- will "wash" with water only. Another report (2017 I believe) estimated only 1 in 5 (adults or kids) were washing after restroom use and a good number of those who "washed" were water only. I can't believe that is still the case after this. 2020 shut down needs to be the re-education of hygiene- especially in children.

    This has forced everyone to be more aware and I truly hope parents have taken this time to SHOW their kids what germ spreading means.

    https://www.rd.com/health/wellness/d...ng-your-hands/
    Watching my daughter wipe her nose with her hands had made me glad she’s not in school while this is happening, lol.

  2. #692
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    Peanut, I’m sorry if you felt as though I was confrontational. I thought you might have a solution.
    Many western states are taking a staggered approach in May, such as opening non-essential businesses with social distancing measures, but continuing to not allow mass gatherings.

  3. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Good luck and good fortune...I'm being sincere. I hope that proper testing can help to monitor your respective situation, and therefore ensure this recovery will gain solid traction.
    Thanks Can, I appreciate that.
    I'm just as nervous at what that will even mean in my line of work. These are technically independent contractors, but they represent my brand. I'm the guy the one relied on to put them in the best situations and I feel helpless as they struggle.

    I know there can be a reasonable- if even uncomfortable way to do this properly. Perhaps that could mean requiring every business and school to have anyone entering the establishment sanitize at the outside "station". It may be costly and intrusive but could be implemented today with an employee outside. Really no different idea than a ticket taker at an event.

  4. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Watching my daughter wipe her nose with her hands had made me glad she’s not in school while this is happening, lol.
    Exactly. I had my daughter help me plant some flowers and just out of curiosity I watched as we washed up, and I realized I was just as guilty as anyone of maybe really never showing what that properly meant. After washing up with soap and water she still had dirt under her nails as probably most would.

  5. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    To be fair - I was taking a slight shot at gun owners. Protest the extended stay at home orders at your capital? Fine. Whatever. But to show up with body armor and a fully clipped and decked out M4 - AND wearing a mask to protect you from the one thing and cause that is extending a stay home order?

    That’s just stupid.
    Yeah, in don't get why showing you open guns is important for some during a protest but wearing the masks actually makes total sense to me.

    Their point, if I understand it correctly, is they believe some measures are extreme and arbitrary. Wearing masks, fine that's reasonable, we're willing, this other stuff?! My take at least.

    Stay safe!

  6. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by atwaterandstir View Post
    Thanks Can, I appreciate that.
    I'm just as nervous at what that will even mean in my line of work. These are technically independent contractors, but they represent my brand. I'm the guy the one relied on to put them in the best situations and I feel helpless as they struggle.

    I know there can be a reasonable- if even uncomfortable way to do this properly. Perhaps that could mean requiring every business and school to have anyone entering the establishment sanitize at the outside "station". It may be costly and intrusive but could be implemented today with an employee outside. Really no different idea than a ticket taker at an event.
    In spite of my stance on health and testing and so forth, I had some real anxiety when I first realized that our economies would be in deep trouble, and watching it unfold was agonizing. You know better than I perhaps, but when you stop allowing people to fly, and you stop going to restaurants and stores, the domino effect takes over, the end game is brutal. And once economies go that route, they often spiral. It is not the place you ever want to get to.

    So, like you I am sure, I started to lose sleep back in February. On a personal level, I depend on investments in retirement. But I worry about my kids and their partners and all the people we know, that are either lucky to be working or laid off. Even my one oldest, who luckily has a job, but goes to work in a hospital every day. That's a catch 22, if infection spreads.

    So we are all in this together. I want nothing more than to have life as normal as normal as can be, and that includes people working. Even if at home for a while. I am not a huge Zuckerberg fan, but he said that Facebook will naturally keep working from home, because it's a suitable industry for that. But will delay return to the office for a while, to let other businesses get back to work in the same vicinity. Therefore not impeding their use of public transportation and all the other issues around social distancing. That's wise and socially responsible.

    To be clear as well....if someone could prove that a specific place had no virus issues, and could be tested regularly to monitor, I would absolutely endorse their immediate return. But it's the collective situation that needs to be assessed in tandem. But as long as one entity can stay healthy and independent to a high degree, and be monitored as necessary...they should be perfectly fine to continue.

  7. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    And I would argue that this is another in the long list of pandemics we've faced over the years. Without knowing exactly your age, it's likely you lived through the Asian Flu pandemic of 57-58 (my apologies if you weren't born yet) which had around 2 million deaths. The Hong Kong flu of 68-69 which had 1 million deaths. The SARS outbreak of 2002-04, which thankfully only saw 774 die. The H1N1 outbreak of 2009 which killed an estimated 284,000 world-wide.

    Somehow we (society) managed to get through all of those without completely shutting things down and without everyone dying. But this is the first pandemic during the Social Media age where false information is started and that spreads like it's 100% the truth.

    I would also argue that if you're that worried about people flying and spreading viruses, you should be more worried about the flu. Because people fly and transmit that all the time. And we have outbreaks of it every single winter, so much so that we've actually named it "flu season" that can also kill people with underlying conditions. So why don't we continue to shutdown society until we have a permanent vaccine for that?
    This is pretty irresponsible, and frankly disgusting, to keep comparing it to the normal flu. The US alone is already over 34k deaths from Covid-19 in April (with shutdowns), the regular flu was responsible for the same amount of deaths all of last year. Each day we are setting new records for Covid-19 deaths. A month ago today the death toll was 8,000, now it is at 149,000 and hasn't shown to be peaked yet, but you still insist on comparing it to the entire length of previous pandemics? Perhaps wait until it is finished (or even peaked) before claiming this one is no big deal in comparison.

    I notice you didn't list the Spanish Flu, which was responsible for the most deaths of any pandemic besides the Black Plague. It killed 50 million when it finally ended. You know what the cities with the lowest death totals did to slow it down? They quarantined, shut down schools and businesses, and banned public gatherings (sound familiar?). Compare St Louis to Philadelphia. Philly took 2 weeks to enable lock downs compared to St Louis' 2 days. St Louis had less than half of the death rate compared to Philly. Even more proof that the lockdown worked is when St Louis lifted the restrictions too early, causing another rise in cases before having to shut down again.

    I find it callous at best to say that society "managed to get through all of those without completely shutting things down and everyone dying". Gee, it only cost the lives of millions. No big deal. It is nice to know where some people (and even mods) on this site value a human life versus a dollar.

    Some people on this site make me sick.

  8. #698
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    Can-
    To answer your question about Gaven Newsome. My concern is the effects CA can have over the entire economy. He stated they may not allow large gatherings until a vaccine is available. This wouldn’t concern me as much if it was a smaller state such as Washington or Minnesota, but CA has a larger gross domestic product than most countries in the world. CA had a gross domestic product almost twice the size of Canada, and has 3 NFL teams, 5 MLB teams, 4 NBA teams, not to mention numerous college football and basketball teams, etc. Having said that I realize sports are entertainment and are not vital to me per say. However if the economy of CA collapses in the next year it could be catastrophic globally.

  9. #699
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    That's a harsh response Cinnamunmun

    I think it's irresponsible to continue to ignore the REAL results people have now had with different treatment combinations. These aren't cures......these are treatments.

    We have treated far more people now than 30 days ago and have a much better idea of what is helping. Of course the spread rate is being aided by the shutdowns. But it's clear the people making decisions are comfortable enough that there is now a different path for treatment than what was feared 30 days ago.

    People love to talk about flattening the curve, but are hard pressed to move away from the "peak" fear themselves.

  10. #700
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    When public officials say they’re doing things in the interest of their community they need to think carefully about enforcement. Public officials work for the citizens of their community, not the other way around. Arresting a teenager surfing on an abandoned beach does not cause people to trust their public officials. It causes distrust and anger. Taking such actions can have the opposite impact, making more people question and disregard the guidelines. Arresting a father for playing basketball with his daughter in an empty park accomplished one thing - made more people distrust their local officials.

    Police dragging a man off a bus in Philadelphia doesn’t help the situation, especially when the driver who was telling the man to get off the bus wasn’t obeying the direction to wear a mask. The direction wasn’t communicated clearly and effectively in Philadelphia. The police could have offered to help the man. Instead they used a heavy handed approach.

    When you create a police state in the name of the public good, it can have the opposite affect of what you’re trying to accomplish. Not to mention violating Constitutional rights.

  11. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by atwaterandstir View Post
    That's a harsh response Cinnamunmun

    I think it's irresponsible to continue to ignore the REAL results people have now had with different treatment combinations. These aren't cures......these are treatments.

    We have treated far more people now than 30 days ago and have a much better idea of what is helping. Of course the spread rate is being aided by the shutdowns. But it's clear the people making decisions are comfortable enough that there is now a different path for treatment than what was feared 30 days ago.

    People love to talk about flattening the curve, but are hard pressed to move away from the "peak" fear themselves.
    It is a harsh reality that some refuse to acknowledge because they want the world to go back to what it was 6 months ago. If you do this too early people will die. If you do it too late, the economy will be in another recession/depression. We have recovered from both in our history and I know which I'd rather face.

    We do have better ideas on what is helping in terms of treatment, that is a fact. We are also closer to the antibody tests and a vaccine (even if it is a year away we are still closer). That doesn't mean you stop running on the 20 yard line.

    Leading epidemiologists and infection disease experts such as Dr. Fauci say we are not ready to reopen. I'll take their word on a pandemic over any politician any day.

  12. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by CinnaMunMun View Post
    It is a harsh reality that some refuse to acknowledge because they want the world to go back to what it was 6 months ago. If you do this too early people will die. If you do it too late, the economy will be in another recession/depression. We have recovered from both in our history and I know which I'd rather face.

    We do have better ideas on what is helping in terms of treatment, that is a fact. We are also closer to the antibody tests and a vaccine (even if it is a year away we are still closer). That doesn't mean you stop running on the 20 yard line.

    Leading epidemiologists and infection disease experts such as Dr. Fauci say we are not ready to reopen. I'll take their word on a pandemic over any politician any day.
    This is completely false. Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx were key contributors to building the phased approach to re-opening. In areas that can meet the guidelines within a phase, that state/city/locality can open. They would then move through each phase based on meeting the guidelines accordingly. Those guidelines are provided in Phase 1, 2 and 3.

  13. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by CinnaMunMun View Post
    It is a harsh reality that some refuse to acknowledge because they want the world to go back to what it was 6 months ago. If you do this too early people will die. If you do it too late, the economy will be in another recession/depression. We have recovered from both in our history and I know which I'd rather face.

    We do have better ideas on what is helping in terms of treatment, that is a fact. We are also closer to the antibody tests and a vaccine (even if it is a year away we are still closer). That doesn't mean you stop running on the 20 yard line.

    Leading epidemiologists and infection disease experts such as Dr. Fauci say we are not ready to reopen. I'll take their word on a pandemic over any politician any day.
    Nobody expects the the world to be the same as it was 6 months ago. We do expect this peak fear of even just 30 days ago to subside with the reality of what is happening in our hospitals.

    How can you be so excited of being closer to antibody testing and vaccines, yet not recognize the speed at which things are now moving? We are quickly finding treatments as well.

    Ultimately product Z will be used. That doesn't mean we have to wait for that moment while treatment X and Y are helping us bridge that gap.
    Last edited by atwaterandstir; 04-17-2020 at 09:48 AM.

  14. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    This is completely false. Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx were key contributors to building the phased approach to re-opening. In areas that can meet the guidelines within in phase, that state/city/locality can open. They would then move through each phase based on meeting the guidelines accordingly.
    https://apnews.com/46ee40035d500c4190489aea0adb126b

    Per Dr. Fauci: “We have to have something in place that is efficient and that we can rely on, and we’re not there yet,”

    He states we need more efficient and ready testing to be able to reopen effectively and it won't be everywhere at once. You will get more infections as you reopen, but with a good testing system in place you can isolate the infected before they form clusters. He also specifically said May 1st was "a bit overly optimistic".

    Just because they are forming the plans, doesn't mean we are ready yet. It means they know what we should do when we ARE ready.

  15. #705
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    Quote Originally Posted by CinnaMunMun View Post
    It is a harsh reality that some refuse to acknowledge because they want the world to go back to what it was 6 months ago. If you do this too early people will die. If you do it too late, the economy will be in another recession/depression. We have recovered from both in our history and I know which I'd rather face.

    We do have better ideas on what is helping in terms of treatment, that is a fact. We are also closer to the antibody tests and a vaccine (even if it is a year away we are still closer). That doesn't mean you stop running on the 20 yard line.

    [B]Leading epidemiologists and infection disease experts[B] such as Dr. Fauci say we are not ready to reopen. I'll take their word on a pandemic over any politician any day.
    Leading medical experts have also studied the effect of alcohol on the immune system. Drinking alcohol weakens the immune system therefore making people more susceptible to infections. Why haven’t those “experts”’and public officials pounded the table and demanded all sales of alcohol be banned indefinitely during the pandemic? Explain please.....

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