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Thread: Corona virus

  1. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiere View Post
    That's one of my biggest concerns right there...geopolitical upheaval wrought by millions of disaffected people (many of whom stand to lose all that they have). Extreme political ideologies (with potentially devastating long-term ramifications) are born in such environments. Thankfully, we have ample protections against political extremism as secured by the U.S. Constitution (other countries, perhaps not so much)...but malevolent factions peddling "revolution" can and do spread their poison. Returning to some semblance of normalcy without overloading medical resources in the process, is crucial.

    I agree with an incremental targeted approach; test and evaluate results while constantly updating models. Make changes quickly and accordingly, as necessary. Let's hope this works, for everyone's sake.
    The pandemic has the potential to drastically shift the landscape. People impacted directly by the virus (health) and/or indirectly (job loss) will have a say. People not feeling the pain will continue thinking as they have, not realizing the ground swell. The people being told to shut up and take the pain will have something to say. Their voices, while being somewhat silenced today, will grow louder. The pandemic could lead to changes to our institutions and the way people think.

  2. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Two things...

    1) I am not sure if you and I have sounded similar along the way on this specific topic, though I respect your views on pretty much everything. But even if we have sounded a bit different, what you just said is exactly how I feel. So maybe I am not communicating properly.
    2) Not aimed towards you GMan, but as for science. I just think that, if a person likes to believe that medical experts know more than the layperson re: a virus, and if a person is hoping that a treatment/cure is possible, thanks to scientists, and if a person thinks a vaccine might be helpful, and discovered by scientists....then I believe science is a significant part of the solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    The pandemic has the potential to drastically shift the landscape. People impacted directly by the virus (health) and/or indirectly (job loss) will have a say. People not feeling the pain will continue thinking as they have, not realizing the ground swell. The people being told to shut up and take the pain will have something to say. Their voices, while being somewhat silenced today, will grow louder. The pandemic could lead to changes to our institutions and the way people think.
    I think this is a massively complex, global issue, and there's no such thing as an easy solution. Whatever course of action we take, will surely leave in its wake collateral damage to huge swaths of the population. If we chose protection of those most vulnerable, in addition to alleviating potential strain on limited medical resources using draconian containment measures, we risk economic collapse, which if severe enough, can directly undermine an entire generation's future, and/or politically derail nations.

    On the other hand, those of us that have loved ones in higher risk categories (and of course those in high risk categories) are in an extremely difficult position. My wife is a nurse with heart issues, and asthma...I worry about her every freaking day she's out there fighting this. People are risking their lives.

    The original mortality rate data (dating back some six to eight weeks) now appears grossly overstated. A current mortality rate of 0.5% or less appears likely...however, that is not to say that there wouldn't be mass hospitalizations if the general public were left to their own devices (not saying that is the plan). Moreover, those in high risk categories are still in an exponentially higher mortality rate, and absolutely must protect themselves. Those in regular close contact with folks in a high risk category, must essentially do the same.

    I totally understand the urgent need to begin opening up the country. There will be hardships, and risk, and likely temporary setbacks...but this has to be done. My sister's salon will be opening on 4/28 (pending final approval by I believe the Colorado Department of Health). She'll be wearing a mask as will her client (if necessary they will have to manually hold their mask to their own face so she can cut and style their hair). The occupancy of the salon will be halved, and customers will need to wait in their vehicles until she comes out to get them. But this is a start...at least people can start generating revenue, and hopefully the infection rate remains static. Hopefully, phases two and three can happen in rapid succession.

    In the meantime, my heart goes out to those that have lost loved ones, to those that have suffered severe economic loss for no fault of their own, to those in high risk categories that must remain quarantined for their own safety. Huge respect for the medical workers on the front lines fighting this and trying to save lives. To those working 16 hour shifts searching for new symptomatic treatments and formulating a vaccine. Lots of people donating money and time to help others...speaking of which, please support your local businesses however you can. They need you now more than ever. But, we desperately need to start moving forward to open up the economy. This is just as crucial.
    "Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."

  3. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiere View Post
    I think this is a massively complex, global issue, and there's no such thing as an easy solution. Whatever course of action we take, will surely leave in its wake collateral damage to huge swaths of the population. If we chose protection of those most vulnerable, in addition to alleviating potential strain on limited medical resources using draconian containment measures, we risk economic collapse, which if severe enough, can directly undermine an entire generation's future, and/or politically derail nations.

    On the other hand, those of us that have loved ones in higher risk categories (and of course those in high risk categories) are in an extremely difficult position. My wife is a nurse with heart issues, and asthma...I worry about her every freaking day she's out there fighting this. People are risking their lives.

    The original mortality rate data (dating back some six to eight weeks) now appears grossly overstated. A current mortality rate of 0.5% or less appears likely...however, that is not to say that there wouldn't be mass hospitalizations if the general public were left to their own devices (not saying that is the plan). Moreover, those in high risk categories are still in an exponentially higher mortality rate, and absolutely must protect themselves. Those in regular close contact with folks in a high risk category, must essentially do the same.

    I totally understand the urgent need to begin opening up the country. There will be hardships, and risk, and likely temporary setbacks...but this has to be done. My sister's salon will be opening on 4/28 (pending final approval by I believe the Colorado Department of Health). She'll be wearing a mask as will her client (if necessary they will have to manually hold their mask to their own face so she can cut and style their hair). The occupancy of the salon will be halved, and customers will need to wait in their vehicles until she comes out to get them. But this is a start...at least people can start generating revenue, and hopefully the infection rate remains static. Hopefully, phases two and three can happen in rapid succession.

    In the meantime, my heart goes out to those that have lost loved ones, to those that have suffered severe economic loss for no fault of their own, to those in high risk categories that must remain quarantined for their own safety. Huge respect for the medical workers on the front lines fighting this and trying to save lives. To those working 16 hour shifts searching for new symptomatic treatments and formulating a vaccine. Lots of people donating money and time to help others...speaking of which, please support your local businesses however you can. They need you now more than ever. But, we desperately need to start moving forward to open up the economy. This is just as crucial.
    Bless your wife for working on the front line. Best wishes to your sister opening the salon.

    I saw an interview with a restaurateur from Florida. He said they bought five vehicles to do deliveries. They have locations on the water so they never had to do takeout or deliveries. He said they are using the time to reconfigure the dining rooms to accommodate social distancing.

    This situation will cause a lot of destruction, while creating new opportunities for those who can adapt.

    It was easy to shut things down. Now we’ll see which states and cities can figure out how to get going again. I imagine we’ll see a lot of people move out of states/cities that hold onto lockdowns too long. It wouldn’t surprise me to see some serious upheaval and civil unrest.

    We’re already at the highest unemployment level since the Great Depression. Those who are privileged with resources and employment must be very empathetic to people being crushed.

  4. #919
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    Quick little update -

    Here at UW, our 'massive influx' never really happened to the point that we were preparing for. I don't think it was ever going to happen as the population and density of New York has no comparison ofof Wisconsin. Our ICU's were pretty stocked up with sick Covid patients. There were deaths, there were a few recoveries, and there are still people intubated right now with a positive test. We'll see more come in as well....

    We got a nice email from our CEO that UW is behind something like 6,000 surgical cases this quarter. Our nearly maxed out 600 bed hospital has been about 50% full - with the majority of patients being Covid our emergencies / traumas. Surgeries is where hospitals make the big money, and ours and many others are hurting financially.

    Top administrators are going to see a 20 pay cut in the next few months, and then re-evaluate. Physicians are going to get docked 15%, and general management is getting cut 10%.

    Luckily, this doesn't hurt me right now as I'm an hourly employee - we're not getting docked pay. But outside of being mandated shifts to help support ICU's and ER's with the Covid, we're expected to get mandated throughout summer for extra weekends and night shifts as we start ramping up surgeries. We'll also be expected to 'flex to work volumes' which means - if your unit isn't busy you'll be sent home either using your paid time or go home unpaid. So literally, I could bust my ass in the PACU for 10hrs, but if surgeries come to a halt in the final hours of my shift - I would be forced home as "I'm not needed."

    Grateful for having a job especially with other people being laid off, but in health care it's ALWAYS something.

    Covid influx coming? Shut down the hospital. Float / mandate to other units with positive patients to help. Re-use your N95 until it's rotted. Watch over two other ICU patients on top of your own as the general care nurses who were floated here have never titrated norepi, outside of their 5 minute powerpoint education. Crap. we're out of money? Well, we'll slowly try to get back to normal - but your current overstaffed unit will have to send these same workers home paid with your vacation time or unpaid until everything gets back to normal, even though we kept your unit up staffed to go into the ERs and ICUs every day!

    Maybe having healthcare run as a for-profit business isn’t a great idea like some head honcho's thought it would be....

  5. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    Quick little update -

    Here at UW, our 'massive influx' never really happened to the point that we were preparing for. I don't think it was ever going to happen as the population and density of New York has no comparison ofof Wisconsin. Our ICU's were pretty stocked up with sick Covid patients. There were deaths, there were a few recoveries, and there are still people intubated right now with a positive test. We'll see more come in as well....

    We got a nice email from our CEO that UW is behind something like 6,000 surgical cases this quarter. Our nearly maxed out 600 bed hospital has been about 50% full - with the majority of patients being Covid our emergencies / traumas. Surgeries is where hospitals make the big money, and ours and many others are hurting financially.

    Top administrators are going to see a 20 pay cut in the next few months, and then re-evaluate. Physicians are going to get docked 15%, and general management is getting cut 10%.

    Luckily, this doesn't hurt me right now as I'm an hourly employee - we're not getting docked pay. But outside of being mandated shifts to help support ICU's and ER's with the Covid, we're expected to get mandated throughout summer for extra weekends and night shifts as we start ramping up surgeries. We'll also be expected to 'flex to work volumes' which means - if your unit isn't busy you'll be sent home either using your paid time or go home unpaid. So literally, I could bust my ass in the PACU for 10hrs, but if surgeries come to a halt in the final hours of my shift - I would be forced home as "I'm not needed."

    Grateful for having a job especially with other people being laid off, but in health care it's ALWAYS something.

    Covid influx coming? Shut down the hospital. Float / mandate to other units with positive patients to help. Re-use your N95 until it's rotted. Watch over two other ICU patients on top of your own as the general care nurses who were floated here have never titrated norepi, outside of their 5 minute powerpoint education. Crap. we're out of money? Well, we'll slowly try to get back to normal - but your current overstaffed unit will have to send these same workers home paid with your vacation time or unpaid until everything gets back to normal, even though we kept your unit up staffed to go into the ERs and ICUs every day!

    Maybe having healthcare run as a for-profit business isn’t a great idea like some head honcho's thought it would be....
    Just came in to give you a . Take care and be careful, man.
    Thanks, Reid!

    Click on my sig to read JetRazor's and my story. Or PM me with any questions.

  6. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    Quick little update -

    Here at UW, our 'massive influx' never really happened to the point that we were preparing for. I don't think it was ever going to happen as the population and density of New York has no comparison ofof Wisconsin. Our ICU's were pretty stocked up with sick Covid patients. There were deaths, there were a few recoveries, and there are still people intubated right now with a positive test. We'll see more come in as well....

    We got a nice email from our CEO that UW is behind something like 6,000 surgical cases this quarter. Our nearly maxed out 600 bed hospital has been about 50% full - with the majority of patients being Covid our emergencies / traumas. Surgeries is where hospitals make the big money, and ours and many others are hurting financially.

    Top administrators are going to see a 20 pay cut in the next few months, and then re-evaluate. Physicians are going to get docked 15%, and general management is getting cut 10%.

    Luckily, this doesn't hurt me right now as I'm an hourly employee - we're not getting docked pay. But outside of being mandated shifts to help support ICU's and ER's with the Covid, we're expected to get mandated throughout summer for extra weekends and night shifts as we start ramping up surgeries. We'll also be expected to 'flex to work volumes' which means - if your unit isn't busy you'll be sent home either using your paid time or go home unpaid. So literally, I could bust my ass in the PACU for 10hrs, but if surgeries come to a halt in the final hours of my shift - I would be forced home as "I'm not needed."

    Grateful for having a job especially with other people being laid off, but in health care it's ALWAYS something.

    Covid influx coming? Shut down the hospital. Float / mandate to other units with positive patients to help. Re-use your N95 until it's rotted. Watch over two other ICU patients on top of your own as the general care nurses who were floated here have never titrated norepi, outside of their 5 minute powerpoint education. Crap. we're out of money? Well, we'll slowly try to get back to normal - but your current overstaffed unit will have to send these same workers home paid with your vacation time or unpaid until everything gets back to normal, even though we kept your unit up staffed to go into the ERs and ICUs every day!

    Maybe having healthcare run as a for-profit business isn’t a great idea like some head honcho's thought it would be....
    Thanks for that good man!! Very informative.


  7. #922
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  8. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    Quick little update -

    Here at UW, our 'massive influx' never really happened to the point that we were preparing for. I don't think it was ever going to happen as the population and density of New York has no comparison ofof Wisconsin. Our ICU's were pretty stocked up with sick Covid patients. There were deaths, there were a few recoveries, and there are still people intubated right now with a positive test. We'll see more come in as well....

    We got a nice email from our CEO that UW is behind something like 6,000 surgical cases this quarter. Our nearly maxed out 600 bed hospital has been about 50% full - with the majority of patients being Covid our emergencies / traumas. Surgeries is where hospitals make the big money, and ours and many others are hurting financially.

    Top administrators are going to see a 20 pay cut in the next few months, and then re-evaluate. Physicians are going to get docked 15%, and general management is getting cut 10%.

    Luckily, this doesn't hurt me right now as I'm an hourly employee - we're not getting docked pay. But outside of being mandated shifts to help support ICU's and ER's with the Covid, we're expected to get mandated throughout summer for extra weekends and night shifts as we start ramping up surgeries. We'll also be expected to 'flex to work volumes' which means - if your unit isn't busy you'll be sent home either using your paid time or go home unpaid. So literally, I could bust my ass in the PACU for 10hrs, but if surgeries come to a halt in the final hours of my shift - I would be forced home as "I'm not needed."

    Grateful for having a job especially with other people being laid off, but in health care it's ALWAYS something.

    Covid influx coming? Shut down the hospital. Float / mandate to other units with positive patients to help. Re-use your N95 until it's rotted. Watch over two other ICU patients on top of your own as the general care nurses who were floated here have never titrated norepi, outside of their 5 minute powerpoint education. Crap. we're out of money? Well, we'll slowly try to get back to normal - but your current overstaffed unit will have to send these same workers home paid with your vacation time or unpaid until everything gets back to normal, even though we kept your unit up staffed to go into the ERs and ICUs every day!

    Maybe having healthcare run as a for-profit business isn’t a great idea like some head honcho's thought it would be....
    Thanks for everything you’re doing and hang in there!

  9. #924
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  10. #925
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    Just learned from Myron Rolle doing an interview with Trey Wingo that people with brain tumors or in need of spinal surgery are having those surgeries postponed or canceled because of the corona virus hoax. That is some bull America!
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I won’t Back Down.
    No Matter How Stupid Your Comments Are!
    Still Not Backing Down!!!

  11. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    Just learned from Myron Rolle doing an interview with Trey Wingo that people with brain tumors or in need of spinal surgery are having those surgeries postponed or canceled because of the corona virus hoax. That is some bull America!
    It is a problem to not be able to have surgeries done. The models definitely over stated the potential cases and deaths. However, Covid-19 is real and it’s made a lot of people sick and thousands have died.

  12. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    It is a problem to not be able to have surgeries done. The models definitely over stated the potential cases and deaths. However, Covid-19 is real and it’s made a lot of people sick and thousands have died.
    I know the virus is real. The reaction to it is what I disagree with.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I won’t Back Down.
    No Matter How Stupid Your Comments Are!
    Still Not Backing Down!!!

  13. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    I know the virus is real. The reaction to it is what I disagree with.
    Definitely an over reaction with draconian lock downs and much of the narrative in the media. If you have a small stove top fire you don’t call in a C130 tanker to drop 4000 gallons of water on your house. You get the small fire extinguisher from underneath your sink and put out the fire.

  14. #929
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    I think the whole point is that we don't know quite how bad it would've been without these measures, and given just how contagious it has proven to be, it's hard to say it was overblown. Yes, it's a serious problem that people with other severe issues are not able to get the help they need, but to call it a hoax is grossly insensitive.

    I agree there are areas that don't need to be in quite as serious of a lockdown, but the rate it spreads, it truly has been better to be safe than sorry. I don't think we're returning to "normal" any time soon.
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  15. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunYouOver View Post
    I think the whole point is that we don't know quite how bad it would've been without these measures, and given just how contagious it has proven to be, it's hard to say it was overblown. Yes, it's a serious problem that people with other severe issues are not able to get the help they need, but to call it a hoax is grossly insensitive.

    I agree there are areas that don't need to be in quite as serious of a lockdown, but the rate it spreads, it truly has been better to be safe than sorry. I don't think we're returning to "normal" any time soon.
    I agree with taking a cautious approach on the front end. We’re beginning to get data that can inform us on taking a more targeted approach.

    Wilfred Reilly completed a detailed analysis comparing states with stringent lock downs vs more moderate social distancing. Adjusting for demographics, age and density of population there was no statistical difference in cases and deaths.

    The draconian lock downs are literally destroying hospitals and health systems in areas with relatively few cases (revenue slashed due to blocking “non-essential” procedures). Unemployment is at the highest level since the Great Depression and we’re not even close to seeing the damage.

    It was easy for public officials to shut things down. Now they need to step up and begin the process of opening their states/cities.

    While we should be extremely sensitive to the pain and suffering of those directly affected by the virus, we have to be cognizant of the economic destruction to people across the country. Long after the virus is gone we’re going to see the consequences of shutting down the country. Suicide and drug addiction will spike with high unemployment. We’ll likely see more domestic abuse as families struggle to survive.

    We know a high percentage of deaths occur from long term care facilities, elderly and those with underlying medical conditions. That should inform us to direct resources to those people - testing, disinfecting those facilities and restricting exposure to other people.

    It’s time to get serious about balancing the war on the virus and getting the country back to work. We can’t stay in our homes forever, with the exception of people like celebrities who can afford to. Enough lecturing by people who don’t have to worry about how to provide for their family.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 04-25-2020 at 04:27 PM.

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