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Thread: Corona virus

  1. #1591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    My opinion is this is something new the world has not gone through on a level this large. The early testing was pretty horrible. While places like South Korea has a pretty good grasp on their testing in March I know people in Southern California with symptoms could not always get testing even in April. I think there are a lot of people trying to wrap their head around what is happening even in July 2020.

    The scientific method will not give us "science" on Covid19 until probably 2021 assuming the studies were funded and started in 2020. That means until then we are using data correlations and anecdotal data to make our conclusions...our hypothesis. Some people are not even using data and pushing out their theories or making assumptions based on the extreme outliers they see in the news...which is to be expected on something we have been studying less than a year.

    I would not jump to any conclusions as to why the USA seems to be doing poorly. Even then one can look at the curve of New York compared to Florida and ask why are they different?

    If you want a I come up with some theories on this and while there may be insight if I do not write an essay and reference my sources all I am really doing is telling you my speculation.

    What I would suggest is leaning on the things we have already learned about the Immune System. Things that have been known and shown before Covid19. Specifically I bring up Vit D because it has been shown to helpful against things that are a problem with Covid19. In addition people have seen the data correlations between lack of Vit D and bad cases of Covid19 so various studies have been started.

    The more I see/hear doctors explain why Vit D would have a major impact and how it could even explain why minorities are going through more rough times with Covid19 the more I question why this is something I need to dig through podcasts and youtube to find information on and wonder why am I not seeing our leaders talk about it.
    In the future people a lot smarter than you and I and will be able to find out why certain responses worked, certain ones didn't, and dive into and break down the data to a point which clears up any non-sense theories, criticisms, etc. However at this point on the surface, you have to point to compliance as a major contributing factor, you cannot ignore that, there is no way to argue against it. Obviously the overall health of countries has an impact as well, but I just don't see how countries who are equally as unhealthy, had the same lockdowns, had the same health advice, and had pretty similar responses are in such different places in their handling of the spread, again on the surface I think it is pretty clear what a major contributing factor to that is.

    I do think poor health in general, or immune system health, however you want to phrase it, all ties in and leads to a poorer outcome when you have this disease. In Australia there were some staggering statistics around the cases where deaths occurred, with only just over 100, a huge percentage were not just Covid-19 causing death in isolation, respiratory issues were already pre-existing, and I heard some similar statistics for San Diego as well.

    I think the Vitamin D debate is one in which people don't understand what they are arguing. Vitamin D has been shown to reduce the risks of contracting respiratory diseases as you said, that is not new research. However, debating it as a prevention method in the same sentence as masks and distancing isn't the angle. Vitamin D could potentially reduce your individual risk protecting you from the effects of having it, or possibly getting it, maybe. However, the masks and distancing are protecting against the spread of the extremely contagious disease, which is the cause for concern as this is much more transferable from person to person than anything seen before. They do not have enough research or information to spread the message that Vitamin D could help slow down the spread, and doing so could be counter-productive. If the medical community had that information and they thought it could help, why wouldn't they advise council across the world about it ? There is a reason.

    The Vitamin D talk emerged here straight away when we had initial lockdowns, and the medical community quickly discredited the theories people were cooking up, as they had no reference point or research against something as contagious as Covid, and they didn't know what they were fully dealing with. They also acknowledged it could help, but it doesn't help with controlling the contagious element which so easily spreads from person to person, which again is the concern. People were saying that maybe if we spend more time outside in the sun we will be better protected, but that was quickly shut down and discouraged as something which could do more harm than good, as crowds could potentially flood outdoors in clusters obviously aiding the spread.

    I do see the side you are coming from though, and that mentioning it couldn't hurt, so why not ? I think maybe the risk of everyone flooding outside to try and get them some Vitamin D could maybe be counter-productive though, as people might replace the 2 proven measures to stopping the spread with the hope that some sun exposure will be enough. I think it is an interesting conversation, but one which really could lead to more harm than good, and I think if the medical community thought it was worth mentioning, they would.

  2. #1592
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    In the future people a lot smarter than you and I and will be able to find out why certain responses worked, certain ones didn't, and dive into and break down the data to a point which clears up any non-sense theories, criticisms, etc. However at this point on the surface, you have to point to compliance as a major contributing factor, you cannot ignore that, there is no way to argue against it. Obviously the overall health of countries has an impact as well, but I just don't see how countries who are equally as unhealthy, had the same lockdowns, had the same health advice, and had pretty similar responses are in such different places in their handling of the spread, again on the surface I think it is pretty clear what a major contributing factor to that is.
    Before you claim "there is no way to argue against it" I would suggest reading about the concept that data correlation suggests the virus is more infectious now. It is only a data correlation but honestly that is all we have for things directly related to Covid19 at this stage of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I do think poor health in general, or immune system health, however you want to phrase it, all ties in and leads to a poorer outcome when you have this disease. In Australia there were some staggering statistics around the cases where deaths occurred, with only just over 100, a huge percentage were not just Covid-19 causing death in isolation, respiratory issues were already pre-existing, and I heard some similar statistics for San Diego as well.

    I think the Vitamin D debate is one in which people don't understand what they are arguing. Vitamin D has been shown to reduce the risks of contracting respiratory diseases as you said, that is not new research. However, debating it as a prevention method in the same sentence as masks and distancing isn't the angle. Vitamin D could potentially reduce your individual risk protecting you from the effects of having it, or possibly getting it, maybe. However, the masks and distancing are protecting against the spread of the extremely contagious disease, which is the cause for concern as this is much more transferable from person to person than anything seen before. They do not have enough research or information to spread the message that Vitamin D could help slow down the spread, and doing so could be counter-productive. If the medical community had that information and they thought it could help, why wouldn't they advise council across the world about it ? There is a reason.

    The Vitamin D talk emerged here straight away when we had initial lockdowns, and the medical community quickly discredited the theories people were cooking up, as they had no reference point or research against something as contagious as Covid, and they didn't know what they were fully dealing with. They also acknowledged it could help, but it doesn't help with controlling the contagious element which so easily spreads from person to person, which again is the concern. People were saying that maybe if we spend more time outside in the sun we will be better protected, but that was quickly shut down and discouraged as something which could do more harm than good, as crowds could potentially flood outdoors in clusters obviously aiding the spread.

    I do see the side you are coming from though, and that mentioning it couldn't hurt, so why not ? I think maybe the risk of everyone flooding outside to try and get them some Vitamin D could maybe be counter-productive though, as people might replace the 2 proven measures to stopping the spread with the hope that some sun exposure will be enough. I think it is an interesting conversation, but one which really could lead to more harm than good, and I think if the medical community thought it was worth mentioning, they would.

    IMO all it takes is a simple youtube search of Vit D and Covid19 to get a Dr Rhonda Patrick video talking about the data correlations from three different countries that seems pretty strong in suggesting that Vit D plays an important role in preventing the worst symptoms of Covid19. It is not just about its ability to fight respiratory illness but also Vit D anti-inflammatory effects. Dr Patrick does a pretty good job of explaining in detail why Vit D does this.

    More research will show right now multiple studies are funded into Vit D and its role in helping with Covid19. Research will also show medical professionals are actually trying to use Vit D as a treatment for people already hospitalized.

    Like I have said the science will not be available for any Covid19 until 2021. At this point we are all making theories with no data and hypothesis based on data correlations. The thing I liked about the Dr Patrick video is she admits where her conclusions come from unlike a lot of other sources.

    There will be billions to be made...or lost...on the vaccines. It is easy for me to understand why some would rather not see something as simple as Vit D help.

  3. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Before you claim "there is no way to argue against it" I would suggest reading about the concept that data correlation suggests the virus is more infectious now. It is only a data correlation but honestly that is all we have for things directly related to Covid19 at this stage of the game.

    IMO all it takes is a simple youtube search of Vit D and Covid19 to get a Dr Rhonda Patrick video talking about the data correlations from three different countries that seems pretty strong in suggesting that Vit D plays an important role in preventing the worst symptoms of Covid19. It is not just about its ability to fight respiratory illness but also Vit D anti-inflammatory effects. Dr Patrick does a pretty good job of explaining in detail why Vit D does this.

    More research will show right now multiple studies are funded into Vit D and its role in helping with Covid19. Research will also show medical professionals are actually trying to use Vit D as a treatment for people already hospitalized.

    Like I have said the science will not be available for any Covid19 until 2021. At this point we are all making theories with no data and hypothesis based on data correlations. The thing I liked about the Dr Patrick video is she admits where her conclusions come from unlike a lot of other sources.

    There will be billions to be made...or lost...on the vaccines. It is easy for me to understand why some would rather not see something as simple as Vit D help.
    How does it being more infectious now affect what I said exactly ? Are you trying to say that with it "maybe" mutating in a "minor" way, that is the reason to why America is in such a bad state right now ? I would then further my point if that is the misguided angle you have, to go and compare the same countries I have mentioned as examples of places who have handled the outbreak better, on a timeline over the last 3 months against America, and nothing changes with what I said, point still stands, strongly.

    I also really like Rhonda Patrick and have listened to a lot of what she talks about, I don't doubt her at all, and she obviously is a leader on the topic of Vitamin D and the benifits to ones health. However I feel like you are going down the conspiracy path with this topic and not understanding what I am saying ? The potential could be there that Vitamin D could drastically reduce the effect or spread of the corona virus, but it isn't rock solid, and definitely not solid enough to be advising a response based around it.

    You mention big money being at play and the suggestion of Vitamin D affecting that, but the idea that "they" are trying to suppress information on how to best respond to the spread of the virus in the hope of a business opportunity is pure non-sense and tin hat fodder. The devastation to the world economies will far exceed any money made from finding a vaccine, and if the research and evidence was there surrounding Vitamin D, you know leaders would be leaning on it to try and get their countries in order and out of this mess. But the medical research is not there, therefor the medical community is not advising any government I am aware of to pass on the message.

  4. #1594
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    Good to see national / popular shopping stores including Walmart and Kroger now mandating masks at all times inside.

  5. #1595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    Good to see national / popular shopping stores including Walmart and Kroger now mandating masks at all times inside.
    The meltdown of people boycotting those stores has provided good entertainment as well...


  6. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    The meltdown of people boycotting those stores has provided good entertainment as well...
    Oh yes....

    The Reddit sub publicfreakout will have material for YEARS!

  7. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    The meltdown of people boycotting those stores has provided good entertainment as well...
    https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/starbu...serve-her/amp/

    I feel sorry for the employees who will be verbally and (inevitably) physically abused by these boycotters who will eventually find they need a mask in most stores they want to patronize and then go back to the convenient home store and try to start an altercation.

  8. #1598
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    Hmm. Some grace and compassion is lacking I think.

    Sure, people can overreact, act even stupid. In normal times it would be laughable. This isn't normal. In fact, it could be argued people lashing out are in a way a casualty to this virus that has left people hurting beyond the walls of a hospital. Here in California there has been a noticeable uptick in suicide - people struggling to handle all that has been thrown at them in just a few short months.

    @B51: yeah, I agree. Employees are generally not responsible for store policy. It's unfortunate they are on the receiving end when someone has a meltdown. Those same employees may or may not support the mask policy, but I would hazard a guess, would rather wear a mask than see a store shut down and be out of work as has happened in some areas.

  9. #1599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    Hmm. Some grace and compassion is lacking I think.

    Sure, people can overreact, act even stupid. In normal times it would be laughable. This isn't normal. In fact, it could be argued people lashing out are in a way a casualty to this virus that has left people hurting beyond the walls of a hospital. Here in California there has been a noticeable uptick in suicide - people struggling to handle all that has been thrown at them in just a few short months.

    @B51: yeah, I agree. Employees are generally not responsible for store policy. It's unfortunate they are on the receiving end when someone has a meltdown. Those same employees may or may not support the mask policy, but I would hazard a guess, would rather wear a mask than see a store shut down and be out of work as has happened in some areas.
    I don't really feel much need for grace or compassion honestly...There is never EVER a valid time to take out a company policy on an employee, EVER. People who do that deserve the ridicule.

    Those employees have zero say over what policies are put in place in most situations and already have a hard enough time, when you've got a line of protesting jerks letting you have it repeatedly every day over something the employee can't control.

    It's a mask... It's like protesting wearing a seat belt because it erodes your rights and freedoms... Even if you don't agree with wearing one, it's a minor inconvenience for the safety of others.

    *edit* I think I should be crystal clear, the jerks I am referring to is specifically those attacking employees. I am not commenting on any one here who don't agree with masks.

    Those here who don't agree with masks, I don't agree with you, but I am not throwing names at you personally, only those treating employees like garbage over mask.
    Last edited by Freyaka; 07-16-2020 at 09:11 AM.


  10. #1600
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    This seems a bit ironic that one group keeps touting economy, and the fact that health needs to be sacrificed to some degree. But so often there are people who take that to mean, living the life they want to live, and treating health as lower priority, Take care of health (to at least a responsible level) and economy and normal living will come along for the ride.

    Maybe I am lucky to be in a place with low numbers of virus issues. But many folks keep wearing masks and distancing, and our economy and lifestyle is nearly back to normal. Not there for sure, but moving forward. And once you get closer, you want to keep practicing safe, smart activity, because you do not want it to flare up again, risk lives, and potentially lead to closings and whatever must follow.

  11. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    I don't really feel much need for grace or compassion honestly...There is never EVER a valid time to take out a company policy on an employee, EVER. People who do that deserve the ridicule.

    Those employees have zero say over what policies are put in place in most situations and already have a hard enough time, when you've got a line of protesting jerks letting you have it repeatedly every day over something the employee can't control.

    It's a mask... It's like protesting wearing a seat belt because it erodes your rights and freedoms... Even if you don't agree with wearing one, it's a minor inconvenience for the safety of others.

    *edit* I think I should be crystal clear, the jerks I am referring to is specifically those attacking employees. I am not commenting on any one here who don't agree with masks.

    Those here who don't agree with masks, I don't agree with you, but I am not throwing names at you personally, only those treating employees like garbage over mask.
    No worries, I didn't take it as a personal jab.

    In my world at least, those whom seem less deserving of grace and compassion, when you scratch a little deeper, you find are the ones who are in quite need.

    Besides, in a world where most seem to agree ever more divided, how are we ever going to bridge any gaps if we are intent a mocking, laughing at, and ridiculing others? And to be honest, that kind of position sounds similar to those who are upset at masks talking about rights. They feel entitled. People laughing and mocking them feel entitled.

    So in the end every group can continue to feel entitled further separating or some can decide not to play the game any more, to try and defuse, deescalate, and restore rather than tear down.

    Destruction is easy. Building is work.

  12. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    Oh yes....

    The Reddit sub publicfreakout will have material for YEARS!
    It reminds of the outrage in the 80s & 90s over seatbelt laws. 😂😂

    A friend of mine asked on line the other day when will we stop wearing masks, as in when will we say I wont comply anymore? I replied do you wear your seatbelt when your car is parked in the garage? 🤣🤣

  13. #1603
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    My stance on masks is crystal clear.... unfortunately I had to make a decision yesterday. My boss's boss laid out a mandatory mask situation at work. I quite often have to ride to a job site with fellow employees. We now have to wear a mask if we ride together. Not while we are standing next to each other anywhere other than the vehicle.

    Of course I threw a fit about it because of the obvious. I don't have to wear one unless it's in a vehicle when riding with another employee. How does that make sense? Obviously, I don't want to get fired because I have a wife and kids to support so I wore the damn mask and all I could think of is if all you guys here could see me now LOL

  14. #1604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    It reminds of the outrage in the 80s & 90s over seatbelt laws. 😂😂

    A friend of mine asked on line the other day when will we stop wearing masks, as in when will we say I wont comply anymore? I replied do you wear your seatbelt when your car is parked in the garage? 🤣🤣
    No surprise, I have an issue with seatbelts too, it should be choice if I want to wear one. Why is that made law? Imo, just to put more money in the lawmakers pockets

  15. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    No surprise, I have an issue with seatbelts too, it should be choice if I want to wear one. Why is that made law? Imo, just to put more money in the lawmakers pockets
    Well at least you're consistent


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