Corona virus

[bronx_2003]

Nothing is randomly deleted.

This thread has stayed into the minefield of politics more than once.

Thats debateable.

I answered Cans question in full and it contained nothing inappropriate or what 'some people' may find offensive. It was a full, honest, and detailed reply to his question which is the whole point when people are having conversations on an internet forum.

If it truly was deleted then that is absolutely ridiculous and a pretty sad reflection of the standard of debate on here.

[CanDB]

Well now.....I don't think I can win the Winnipeg or Manitoba debate, because we are small, and unless we have zero cases, I guess one could criticize. I just offer this....how much better should we have done?? There is no answer, but when I talk to all the people I know (and yes, that's relevant), most if not all are pretty satisfied with things. If we have done well with lockdown timing, social distancing, wearing of masks, washing of hands, and so on, I am quite ok with promoting my city, province or country. Bronx seems to indicate that masks are not worn, and kids should be in school together, and in my humble opinion, those types of things may add to the rates we have discussed.

I would argue that we received many briefings both nationally and locally since the pandemic began. It may not be as consistent a plan as you say, but it has been reasonably consistent compared to other countries I have observed. And I will dig this up, but midway through the pandemic I believe most Premiers were receiving reasonably good performance results by their provinces. That is a good sign, because polls can often be tough on elected officials, at the best of times. Polls reflect what people believe, whether the country is dense, or not, if it has a perfect plan or not, and so on.

Recently Toronto, a city of approx. 7 million had hardly any cases. I think it was 9. That's amazing if I got it right. They struggled for a while, but they are one of the most international of cities and seem to have come to grips with things, at least temporarily.

Further, do you want to discuss the UK situation?

Just as an aside, I come here mostly for sports, and I think it cool that Canada got both hub cities for The NHL. And Vancouver was high in the running, but basically expected even higher standards than The NHL was willing to go. Toronto and Edmonton and Vancouver are pretty large cities, I believe The NHL looked to them given how they are handling the pandemic. And I support not playing games in Toronto, in baseball, due to the travel to and from scenario. That was a tough call, but a pretty good one in my opinion.

I found the storyline I mentioned. It was a national poll conducted in late May, which was when the pandemic was is pretty full throttle.

Shachi Kurl, the Angus Reid Institute's executive director, said it's unusual to see the high approval ratings many premiers had during this period, and the jumps are likely due to how each premier is perceived to be handling the pandemic.

We can speculate about a lot of variables....how quickly countries jumped fully into pandemic alert, how much testing they did, how consistent their message, how they resourced the effort, how strict they were, what tracking and monitoring did they employ, and so on. But the pandemic was a very worrisome situation when this poll was conducted, and we were scrambling for leadership and based on what I read into this poll, Canadians were pretty happy with their Premiers, in a very difficult time. That suggests a positive storyline, in spite of traditional difficulties to gain high popularity in almost any period of time, not to mention during likely the most dangerous health situation in our lifetimes.

[Rastic]

Thats debateable.

I answered Cans question in full and it contained nothing inappropriate or what 'some people' may find offensive. It was a full, honest, and detailed reply to his question which is the whole point when people are having conversations on an internet forum.

If it truly was deleted then that is absolutely ridiculous and a pretty sad reflection of the standard of debate on here.

No, it is not debatable.

If it was deleted it was because it was found to be against the Code of Conduct. Those rules have been posted on the site for years. You are welcome to re-read them if you are unsure with the site policy regarding conduct, posting, etc

If you want to continue this discussion please write me a PM or create a post in the community issues forum.

Back on topic.

[Rastic]

Man, I am so sorry to hear this news, if accurate.

2020 has been nothing short of a diaster for just about everybody.

[Hadez]

This is one of the things that was reported on the video of doctors from California that was banned. They said there were seeing more suicides and more domestic violence. They assumed it was a result of people staying at home.

Me personally I think it goes a step further. I think people are use to doing certain things for stress relief. For me it is going to a movie theater. The concept of Retail Therapy is also pretty well documented and how it helps people. I think people had things they did that helped them get though the day and being told to stay at home for months took that away from them.

The problem is imo people not finding another outlet for their stress....combined with more stress from a pandemic.

[Butler By'Note]

Hey Butler....this is just a local thing. In the paper today there's a poll about the pandemic and Manitobans had the highest score saying more should be done to prevent the spread of the virus, whereas Alberta had the highest response saying that the rules went too far. And across Canada, men were twice as likely to say current restrictions went too far. We're both men, but you're a man from Alberta. Would this poll portray your views a little?

Just havin fun this time.

FTR, nationally 52% said the restrictions were about right, whereas 20% said they went too far. And Manitoba's numbers reflect some fairly traceable spikes, primarily in rural areas.

Funny that a province that's barely been touched by Covid wants more done. There are bigger crowds at peewee hockey games than the number of people with Covid in Winnipeg. 8 people have died from Covid in Manitoba. 8!! How many people have died from car accidents in Winnipeg over that same period of time? Do Manitobans feel that they need much stricter restrictions on driving?! Cause you're a lot more likely to die from the second one than the first.

I have no problem with staying 6 feet apart from people, and I completely believe that when you're sick you should stay home. But when a mask bylaw allows you not to wear it while at the gym (cause somehow Covid ceases to exist when you start working out) or at a restaurant or bar (no one gets close to each other there....) or when you're in the lobby or elevator of a 400 unit condo complex, then I would say the bylaw is ineffective and goes too far to look like you're doing something, while not really doing much at all. By the way all of those places listed have had outbreaks in Calgary, while there have been zero outbreaks linked to grocery stores and malls, yet you must wear a mask in the grocery store or mall.

[Peerless]

Obviously suicide is a touchy subject. As horrible as it is, are the people who answered yes to that poll suicidal because they lost the ability to go hang out at their favorite bar or sporting event?

Is it because the mall was closed and they couldn't buy something in person?

Or is it because they were furloughed, fired, let go from work, or possibly unable to get a job due to hiring freezes?

Not that I hope anyone is suicidal or depressed - but I hope it's not caused by something meaningless like a bar, or the Mall of America being closed.... If it is, I think we have a much larger problem in America than we all thought - you know, what's related to peoples overall well being and what makes people happy and really fulfills them.

[CanDB]

Funny that a province that's barely been touched by Covid wants more done. There are bigger crowds at peewee hockey games than the number of people with Covid in Winnipeg. 8 people have died from Covid in Manitoba. 8!! How many people have died from car accidents in Winnipeg over that same period of time? Do Manitobans feel that they need much stricter restrictions on driving?! Cause you're a lot more likely to die from the second one than the first.

I have no problem with staying 6 feet apart from people, and I completely believe that when you're sick you should stay home. But when a mask bylaw allows you not to wear it while at the gym (cause somehow Covid ceases to exist when you start working out) or at a restaurant or bar (no one gets close to each other there....) or when you're in the lobby or elevator of a 400 unit condo complex, then I would say the bylaw is ineffective and goes too far to look like you're doing something, while not really doing much at all. By the way all of those places listed have had outbreaks in Calgary, while there have been zero outbreaks linked to grocery stores and malls, yet you must wear a mask in the grocery store or mall.

OK.....on a slightly related topic, you must be pretty happy about The Flames so far.

[Rastic]

Obviously suicide is a touchy subject. As horrible as it is, are the people who answered yes to that poll suicidal because they lost the ability to go hang out at their favorite bar or sporting event?

Is it because the mall was closed and they couldn't buy something in person?

Or is it because they were furloughed, fired, let go from work, or possibly unable to get a job due to hiring freezes?

Not that I hope anyone is suicidal or depressed - but I hope it's not caused by something meaningless like a bar, or the Mall of America being closed.... If it is, I think we have a much larger problem in America than we all thought - you know, what's related to peoples overall well being and what makes people happy and really fulfills them.

I do not know the answer to your question. Yet, in all sincerity, does it matter?

My older sister had a serious bout with depression for some time. I do not know how it all works but in her case she never felt she had a reason for her depression yet it was there. There may well be reasons she was not conscientiously aware of but the point being, she was struggling with serious depression and on meds for some time for no good reason - according to her.

Whether somebody cannot go to the mall as they might regularly or they were laid off work - the depression and potential destructive effects can be the same, regardless of if the apparent cause is seen as reasonable or not.

[Sophia23]

Obviously suicide is a touchy subject. As horrible as it is, are the people who answered yes to that poll suicidal because they lost the ability to go hang out at their favorite bar or sporting event?

Is it because the mall was closed and they couldn't buy something in person?

Or is it because they were furloughed, fired, let go from work, or possibly unable to get a job due to hiring freezes?

Not that I hope anyone is suicidal or depressed - but I hope it's not caused by something meaningless like a bar, or the Mall of America being closed.... If it is, I think we have a much larger problem in America than we all thought - you know, what's related to peoples overall well being and what makes people happy and really fulfills them.

It is touchy subject. I hope that I'm not judgmental to anyone who has had such serious thoughts. I know my thoughts have changed on the subject over the years. I can't imagine that anyone would contemplate such a serious decision over something meaningless. What may be meaningless to some, may be very important to someone else though.

I kind of wondered with the required quarantines early on how much that would do to peoples mental health. I would imagine many come from job loss, on top of the stress of health, or people who lost jobs during a pandemic only to find they lost their health insurance too if they did fall ill. I imagine the toll that its taken on working families who have to rearrange their lives to take care of their kids due to remote learning. I don't know, I'm pretty lucky I think when I see the impacts the pandemic has had on so many lives.

I can think of one in my life who is very isolated as it is from being elderly and not driving. For someone like that, cutting off further social interaction of something as simple as church can take their depression to a very low point. I get the poll appears to be in regards to younger generations from what I saw, so this same situation may not effect someone younger. I think it's just important to be an ear when someone reaches out. I know I force myself to call instead of text more over the last year, just because I think it has more meaning to someone who may be dealing with depression from this mess.

[JvDub95]

Don't get wrong fellas. I'm not trying to say that a shopping mall or a bar shouldn't count against someone in their happiness, or their depression preventer. I'm not trying to say it's different.

But in the grand scheme of things - I think it is a miniscule reason to get depressed over - especially knowing that we live in a country where people are able to freely (and usually safely) go to a mall or bar, unlike some countries who don't have anywhere near the rights and freedoms that we do. What's the depression rate in place like that? What's the suicide rate? We are lucky to live where we live and experience things such as sporting events, malls with awesome technology and stores, and classic dive bars.

But someone on the other side of the world is probably traveling miles to grab a gallon of hopefully clean water to bring back home as they enjoy their bread dinner... Ya know what I'm saying? Are they depressed or suicidal? Add that WITH covid.

Anyways, be good folks. Please seek help with depression or suicide. It is very serious.

I don't want to stray off topic so this will most likely be my last comment related to this - but I'm looking at the grand scheme here.

The grand scheme of things is to live a free and happy life. It's quite hypocritical to think lives of covid patients out way the lives of those struggling to cope with things. Covid has an extremely high survival rate. I continue to question the choice to lock down knowing the real threats to people's livelihood emotionally and financially.

Imo, the threat of covid isn't as dangerous as the others. It's time to unmask and move on with life. Covid isn't going away and the vaccine may be many months/years away. Do we just stay living in fear the entire time? Not this guy....

[CanDB]

The grand scheme of things is to live a free and happy life. It's quite hypocritical to think lives of covid patients out way the lives of those struggling to cope with things. Covid has an extremely high survival rate. I continue to question the choice to lock down knowing the real threats to people's livelihood emotionally and financially.

Imo, the threat of covid isn't as dangerous as the others. It's time to unmask and move on with life. Covid isn't going away and the vaccine may be many months/years away. Do we just stay living in fear the entire time? Not this guy....

You have a right to your opinion, but the one thing I will comment on is the "time to unmask".....if anything I see it almost completely opposite. We can live our lives, not wear masks in many situations, but I think it's a bad idea to throw 'em away. Not yet.

[Hadez]

Obviously suicide is a touchy subject. As horrible as it is, are the people who answered yes to that poll suicidal because they lost the ability to go hang out at their favorite bar or sporting event?

Is it because the mall was closed and they couldn't buy something in person?

Or is it because they were furloughed, fired, let go from work, or possibly unable to get a job due to hiring freezes?

Not that I hope anyone is suicidal or depressed - but I hope it's not caused by something meaningless like a bar, or the Mall of America being closed.... If it is, I think we have a much larger problem in America than we all thought - you know, what's related to peoples overall well being and what makes people happy and really fulfills them.

From your posts I get you are on the front line and have strong feelings about this but it is really on us to judge how people deal with stress in their lives as long as they are following the law?

You are talking about maybe the people being suicidal because they can not go to bars but what about the people losing their jobs....what about the people who invested everything they had into a business that is now closing? In this area they are now starting to lay off school workers because no reason to have some of the school workers when kids are not going to school....what about them can they be depressed?

This is not just affecting people who can not go to a bar....and even so...we should not be judging them. I can tell a story why one could be sympathetic to someone unable to go to a bar in a time when we not suppose to socialize with anyone we do not live with but why....we should be compassionate for everyone who is struggling.

[Hadez]

I do not know the answer to your question. Yet, in all sincerity, does it matter?

My older sister had a serious bout with depression for some time. I do not know how it all works but in her case she never felt she had a reason for her depression yet it was there. There may well be reasons she was not conscientiously aware of but the point being, she was struggling with serious depression and on meds for some time for no good reason - according to her.

Whether somebody cannot go to the mall as they might regularly or they were laid off work - the depression and potential destructive effects can be the same, regardless of if the apparent cause is seen as reasonable or not.

I agree. While I do not know personally anyone who suffers from severe depression a couple of my friends do suffer from mild forms of depression. They both have medication from doctors but try to get through life without taking anything. They struggled a bit the last few months but lucky for them they have people in their homes who help them get through it. The rest of us will contact them regularly but phone/video contact is very limited in comfort compared to being there in person.

Some people may only have the people they know at a barber shop or bar or work or whatever place they use to go that is now closed. Then they get stuck alone at home and are supposed to social distance for nearly 6 months now with only the people they live with.

This is not even counting the people whose career, job and/or business have been destroyed by the social shutdown that has been going on for close to 6 months now. With schools remaining closed now more people are losing their career as school districts lay people off.

I been lucky. I do worry about the people out there who are struggling and worried that sooner or later they may not even have a place to live.

[CanDB]

Obviously suicide is a touchy subject. As horrible as it is, are the people who answered yes to that poll suicidal because they lost the ability to go hang out at their favorite bar or sporting event?

Is it because the mall was closed and they couldn't buy something in person?

Or is it because they were furloughed, fired, let go from work, or possibly unable to get a job due to hiring freezes?

Not that I hope anyone is suicidal or depressed - but I hope it's not caused by something meaningless like a bar, or the Mall of America being closed.... If it is, I think we have a much larger problem in America than we all thought - you know, what's related to peoples overall well being and what makes people happy and really fulfills them.

From your posts I get you are on the front line and have strong feelings about this but it is really on us to judge how people deal with stress in their lives as long as they are following the law?

You are talking about maybe the people being suicidal because they can not go to bars but what about the people losing their jobs....what about the people who invested everything they had into a business that is now closing? In this area they are now starting to lay off school workers because no reason to have some of the school workers when kids are not going to school....what about them can they be depressed?

This is not just affecting people who can not go to a bar....and even so...we should not be judging them. I can tell a story why one could be sympathetic to someone unable to go to a bar in a time when we not suppose to socialize with anyone we do not live with but why....we should be compassionate for everyone who is struggling.

But I think Peerless made that point,,,,,bolded. He is saying that it is a concern.

I highly doubt anyone here is ok with any type of mental health concerns.