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Thread: Corona virus

  1. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    It’s relatively easy for wealthy people, celebrities, professional athletes and anyone with resources to tell people to stick with the shut down. Sure, they have to experience isolation. Many have been generous with donations. It’s relatively easy for public officials to tell people to extend the shut down. People with enough resources won’t experience the impact of unemployment. They won’t have to wait hours in line at a food bank.

    I heard one say we need to lock down for 18 months. Keep the country shut down for an extended period and we’ll witness devastation most people can’t imagine.

    Some people haven’t thought about the impact on pension funds. Many public pension funds have survived because of solid market returns. The longer the shut down lasts the odds increase of pension funds failing. Stop retirement checks to millions of people and see how long people want the country to remain shuttered.

    I understand and empathize with the position to keep things shut down. Understand the economy will worsen far beyond what’s happened. The impact will begin to touch everyone, not only the people already suffering. People we think we understand, yet we have no idea of their suffering.

    We’re going to get this country back to work one way or another. People are beginning to be fed up. We can’t hide in our homes forever. We can and will figure out a way to balance safety and working. Living doesn’t come without risk.
    Are you sure that it's easy for them all? If someone believes one thing is right over another, why can't that be the reason? Is it possible that some or many of them think like millions of others....in that there is a way to do it that does not completely align with your position?

    Lets just say none of us is 100% right about this. Because we haven't passed that final bridge. But I suggest that others, rich or not rich, might have a common view based on how they see this evolving the best way. It may be simply about individual belief and values.

    And I would suggest the economy will suffer more if this is not carefully thought out, and with the proper testing and monitoring in place to assure a better likelihood of success. And I also think that few of us are advocating "shut down". People are working from home. People are working on job sites (hospitals, food stores, manufacturing plants, etc.). Go back to work, but know the consequences. Have the data you need. Design sites accordingly. Change practices as required. And be careful not to make things worse.

    I think if you peel back the onion many of us are saying the same thing...move forward with caution, and the capability of assessing the impacts, and reacting swiftly.

    As far as the wealthy, they do not all like losing money. They are often ahead of the curve when it comes to making money. It spoke volumes to me that as soon as 1 pro athlete in NA tested positive, the entire sports world went upside down. Wealthy owners do not like losing that sort of business. I think they weighed the consequences quickly, and looked for a new route to follow. They will likely be the innovators and profit minded folks who will do whatever possible to get the economy going again. They can drive change, when given the opportunity.

    And yes, thankfully many of them donate tons of money.

    That's just an opinion.

  2. #827
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    Though Africa has seemingly been less impacted than I would have expected, I just read that they could be hit very hard soon. Given their size and lack of resources in many areas, this could be quite tragic. Early projections are staggering, but hopefully they are grossly over estimated.

  3. #828
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Though Africa has seemingly been less impacted than I would have expected, I just read that they could be hit very hard soon. Given their size and lack of resources in many areas, this could be quite tragic. Early projections are staggering, but hopefully they are grossly over estimated.
    I’m concerned too, but some areas have been isolating as long as we have, and they’re not densely populated

  4. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Are you sure that it's easy for them all? If someone believes one thing is right over another, why can't that be the reason? Is it possible that some or many of them think like millions of others....in that there is a way to do it that does not completely align with your position?

    Lets just say none of us is 100% right about this. Because we haven't passed that final bridge. But I suggest that others, rich or not rich, might have a common view based on how they see this evolving the best way. It may be simply about individual belief and values.

    And I would suggest the economy will suffer more if this is not carefully thought out, and with the proper testing and monitoring in place to assure a better likelihood of success. And I also think that few of us are advocating "shut down". People are working from home. People are working on job sites (hospitals, food stores, manufacturing plants, etc.). Go back to work, but know the consequences. Have the data you need. Design sites accordingly. Change practices as required. And be careful not to make things worse.

    I think if you peel back the onion many of us are saying the same thing...move forward with caution, and the capability of assessing the impacts, and reacting swiftly.

    As far as the wealthy, they do not all like losing money. They are often ahead of the curve when it comes to making money. It spoke volumes to me that as soon as 1 pro athlete in NA tested positive, the entire sports world went upside down. Wealthy owners do not like losing that sort of business. I think they weighed the consequences quickly, and looked for a new route to follow. They will likely be the innovators and profit minded folks who will do whatever possible to get the economy going again. They can drive change, when given the opportunity.

    And yes, thankfully many of them donate tons of money.

    That's just an opinion.
    It is easier for them compared to average Americans

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  5. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Are you sure that it's easy for them all? If someone believes one thing is right over another, why can't that be the reason? Is it possible that some or many of them think like millions of others....in that there is a way to do it that does not completely align with your position?

    Lets just say none of us is 100% right about this. Because we haven't passed that final bridge. But I suggest that others, rich or not rich, might have a common view based on how they see this evolving the best way. It may be simply about individual belief and values.

    And I would suggest the economy will suffer more if this is not carefully thought out, and with the proper testing and monitoring in place to assure a better likelihood of success. And I also think that few of us are advocating "shut down". People are working from home. People are working on job sites (hospitals, food stores, manufacturing plants, etc.). Go back to work, but know the consequences. Have the data you need. Design sites accordingly. Change practices as required. And be careful not to make things worse.

    I think if you peel back the onion many of us are saying the same thing...move forward with caution, and the capability of assessing the impacts, and reacting swiftly.

    As far as the wealthy, they do not all like losing money. They are often ahead of the curve when it comes to making money. It spoke volumes to me that as soon as 1 pro athlete in NA tested positive, the entire sports world went upside down. Wealthy owners do not like losing that sort of business. I think they weighed the consequences quickly, and looked for a new route to follow. They will likely be the innovators and profit minded folks who will do whatever possible to get the economy going again. They can drive change, when given the opportunity.

    And yes, thankfully many of them donate tons of money.

    That's just an opinion.
    Yes it’s easier for anyone with enough resources to sit on the sideline. It doesn’t mean someone’s values and beliefs aren’t sincere. However it’s easy to wait it out as long as necessary when you have the means. Is that hard to understand?

    Some people are working. However 22-23 million people lost their job over four weeks. Tell thousands of people waiting in line for an entire day for food. Tell them to stay home - the home or apartment they’re losing because they lost their job.

    We can’t let perfect get in the way of progress. It’s on the public officials who shut things down to figure out how to deliver testing and tracing. It’s up to them to make it happen, and do it with a sense of urgency. Of course they need to be careful, but you don’t delay action. There will never be a perfect process - trying to be perfect has unintended consequences.

    Very well thought out guidelines with three phases have been put in place. Those business people you speak of need to lead the way - put measures in place with the necessary items for their employees. Most importantly those business people need to get out from behind the computer and lead. Build confidence in people by leading the way.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 04-18-2020 at 08:45 PM.

  6. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    Ok, I’m done...


    Good morning....



    And this is only day 1 of my days off...
    Day off? What's that?

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  7. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by #87Birdman View Post
    Day off? What's that?
    Ya. They make me do that,,, I kinda like it....
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  8. #833
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    Thought this was an interesting read. I’ll see if it’s possible to post any of the graphs from the analysis.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-is...after-70-days/

    A prominent Israeli mathematician, analyst and former general claims simple statistical analysis demonstrates that the spread of COVID-19 peaks after about 40 days and declines to almost zero after 70 days — no matter where it strikes, and no matter what measures governments impose to try to thwart it.

    Prof Isaac Ben-Israel, head of the Security Studies program in Tel Aviv University and the chairman of the National Council for Research and Development, told Israel’s Channel 12 (Hebrew) Monday night that research he conducted with a fellow professor, analyzing the growth and decline of new cases in countries around the world, showed repeatedly that “there’s a set pattern” and “the numbers speak for themselves.”

    While he said he supports social distancing, the widespread shuttering of economies worldwide constitutes a demonstrable error in light of those statistics. In Israel’s case, he noted, about 140 people normally die every day. To have shuttered much of the economy because of a virus that is killing one or two a day is a radical error that is unnecessarily costing Israel 20% of its GDP, he charged.

    Prof. Gabi Barbash, a hospital director and the former Health Ministry director general, insisted in a bitter TV exchange that Ben-Israel is mistaken, and that the death tolls would have been far higher if Israel and other countries had not taken the steps they did.

    But Ben-Israel said the figures — notably from countries, such as Singapore, Taiwan, and Sweden, which did not take such radical measures to shutter their economies — proved his point. (He also posted a Hebrew paper to this effect on Facebook, with graphs showing the trajectories.)

    When Barbash cited New York as ostensible proof that Ben-Israel was mistaken, Ben-Israel noted the latest indications from New York were precisely in line with his statistics that indicate daily new cases figures peaking and starting to fall after about 40 days.

    Asked to explain the phenomenon, Ben-Israel, who also heads Israel’s Space Agency, later said: “I have no explanation. There are all kinds of speculations. Maybe it’s related to climate, or the virus has a life-span of its own.”

    He said the policy of lockdowns and closures was a case of “mass hysteria.” Simple social distancing would be sufficient, he said.

    If the lockdowns instituted in Israel and elsewhere were not causing such immense economic havoc, there wouldn’t be a problem with them, he said. “But you shouldn’t be closing down the entire country when most of the population is not at high risk.”

    Asked to explain why the virus had caused such a high death toll in countries such as Italy, he said the Italian health service was already overwhelmed. “It collapsed in 2017 because of the flu,” he said.

    Barbash, speaking after Ben-Israel had left the studio, insisted that “we’re going to be living with the coronavirus for the next year.”

    He added: “I strongly urge that we not let mathematicians — who know nothing about biology — determine when we lift the lockdown.”

  9. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Yes it’s easier for anyone with enough resources to sit on the sideline. It doesn’t mean someone’s values and beliefs aren’t sincere. However it’s easy to wait it out as long as necessary when you have the means. Is that hard to understand?

    Some people are working. However 22-23 million people lost their job over four weeks. Tell thousands of people waiting in line for an entire day for food. Tell them to stay home - the home or apartment they’re losing because they lost their job.

    We can’t let perfect get in the way of progress. It’s on the public officials who shut things down to figure out how to deliver testing and tracing. It’s up to them to make it happen, and do it with a sense of urgency. Of course they need to be careful, but you don’t delay action. There will never be a perfect process - trying to be perfect has unintended consequences.

    Very well thought out guidelines with three phases have been put in place. Those business people you speak of need to lead the way - put measures in place with the necessary items for their employees. Most importantly those business people need to get out from behind the computer and lead. Build confidence in people by leading the way.
    I could discuss your response in even more depth, but I won't. I have legit reasons not to.

    After I posted last night, the first thing I see....Sean Penn and his group making a significant impact on free testing in California. Then I watched the 2 hour segment of the music show...hosted by well known people, and with superstars playing from their homes. These 2 things were happening within minutes I believe of my post. I can really go on with what wealthy people are doing, using their platforms for the good of all, but this would take up a load of space.

    Not all wealthy people are greedy. And not all business leaders are either. In fact, they stopped the train when they saw a trace of danger (think Pro Sports). And they will start the train up as soon as it makes sense, and it is safe, and they have real plans. It's the leaders that actually deal with the issues and have to make tough decisions, that I respect the most. And though not often wealthy, that goes for the small biz folks, who in their smaller way, have to make very hard decisions as well. In fact, they need more support in my opinion, in Canada and possibly in your country, to get over the hump. They are the heart and soul of many economies.

    I am talking the wealthy, because that's how you began your post. You mentioned public officials. Not discussing.

    The main reason I offered a response was the way you presented it, because it appears it may differ from your overall stance. And even though I am not here to defend the wealthy, I am basically defending anyone who has a similar stance to what many folks have, who just happen to think like I do on this subject. And in this scenario, I think we are talking about a lot of proactive folks, who can't wait to get going, once they have the pertinent medical info, tests (whoever provides) and backup plans to support. Difference of opinion, that's fine. But if you have an opinion, and you happen to have some wealth, that does not mean they are intricately linked. It just could be that they are basing their views on values and beliefs, and yes, for the good of those less fortunate.

    Last thing....I am fully aware of and saddened by the employment situation, and the pain of so many, who need help. I believe that, even though it easy to present reasons why things should speed up, I also believe that hastily done, could make lives worse. And I think many of those in my way of thinking, wealthy or not, fear that we might rush into a worse situation, or at least one that continues to make the lives of healthcare workers much riskier than their job descriptions..

    To conclude, yes, wealth makes this much easier for some than for many others, BUT wealth does not mean you can't have a position, one that you truly believe for the right reasons.

  10. #835
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    In Chelsea, Massachusetts researchers picked a street and randomly asked 200 residents The Massachusetts General study took samples from 200 residents on the Participants remained anonymous and provided a drop of blood to researchers, who were able to produce a result in ten minutes with a rapid test. Around a third of participants in a Massachusetts study tested positive for antibodies linked with coronavirus, according to researchers.

  11. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    It is easier for them compared to average Americans

    Yes it is easier for most of them. But the argument should not be who has it easier, but what is the right thing to do. My take.

    Then again, not all people with some money are fortunate, because many might be more vulnerable from a health position. Just a side note. Has nothing to do with what the right thing to do is. Just thought it fair to consider those with health concerns.

  12. #837
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    2020 is a unique leap year. It has 29 days in February, 300 days in March and 10 years in April.

    To those who are complaining about the quarantine period and curfews, just remember that your grandparents were called to war, you are being called to sit on the couch and watch Netflix. You can do this.

    Day 30 without sports. Found a lady sitting on my couch yesterday. Apparently she is my wife. She seems nice.

    I was told that a mask and gloves were enough to go to the supermarket. They lied, everyone else has clothes on.
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  13. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Yes it is easier for most of them. But the argument should not be who has it easier, but what is the right thing to do. My take.

    Then again, not all people with some money are fortunate, because many might be more vulnerable from a health position. Just a side note. Has nothing to do with what the right thing to do is. Just thought it fair to consider those with health concerns.
    Who is the authority on the right thing to do? A celebrity with resources to continue advocating the same position?

    Rising unemployment correlates to more suicides. Are deaths from suicide from rising unemployment not as meaningful as deaths from Coronavirus? Seems like normalizing the deaths of people impacted by unemployment.

  14. #839
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    I do not want to get too confident, and I do have significant empathy for those in need, but I do see a lot of evidence that we fought a pretty good fight to tame this ugly virus, with many of the hard hit locations showing better numbers, the key being lost lives.

    So yes, good on all who have made the plan work. We still got work to do, and a lengthy period of time before anything resembling normal returns.

    But just think back, a month or two, and then weeks ago, and even within days, of the crisis and the high speed of learning involved. And the fears that may subside a little, now that we have got past what seems is the worst part. It is easy to forget, but not long ago this was out of control, as we did not understand it. We still don't completely, but at least the efforts of most have helped in the battle.

    Good luck everyone!! Good work!!

  15. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I do not want to get too confident, and I do have significant empathy for those in need, but I do see a lot of evidence that we fought a pretty good fight to tame this ugly virus, with many of the hard hit locations showing better numbers, the key being lost lives.

    So yes, good on all who have made the plan work. We still got work to do, and a lengthy period of time before anything resembling normal returns.

    But just think back, a month or two, and then weeks ago, and even within days, of the crisis and the high speed of learning involved. And the fears that may subside a little, now that we have got past what seems is the worst part. It is easy to forget, but not long ago this was out of control, as we did not understand it. We still don't completely, but [/B]at least the efforts of most have helped in the battle.

    Good luck everyone!! Good work!!
    What evidence proves the shut down measures worked better in some areas than others? Statistically, provide the evidence.

    What proof can you provide the efforts of “most” have helped in the battle?

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