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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I picked the wrong example with Booker. It was the thought of spending a lot at the position when you should be able to find similar skills at a lower price.

    As far as Booker goes, his receiving and blocking skills are as good as Gordon, even with fewer reps. His yards after contract rushing are right there with Gordon.
    Hopefully somebody signs Booker and we can compare their numbers at the end of the year.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I picked the wrong example with Booker. It was the thought of spending a lot at the position when you should be able to find similar skills at a lower price.

    As far as Booker goes, his receiving and blocking skills are as good as Gordon, even with fewer reps. His yards after contact rushing are right there with Gordon.
    I agree with your point about finding similar skills for a cheaper price. I thought the signing was a waste of money.

    As far as Booker, I will be shocked if he has two more years in the NFL. You can certainly continue the defense of him, as I love to hear all opinions, I just don’t think you will find any experts that will agree with you. Maybe he is a personal favorite of yours or something. It may cause some to question your football knowledge. Personally I think it is degrading the point you are trying to make, but I am not here to judge and I genuinely enjoy reading others views.

    Last year Tim Patrick averaged 13.6 YPC. He averages 13.7 for his career. Should we be comparing him to DeAndre Hopkins or Keenan Allen? both averaged less YPC than Patrick last year.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    I agree with your point about finding similar skills for a cheaper price. I thought the signing was a waste of money.

    As far as Booker, I will be shocked if he has two more years in the NFL. You can certainly continue the defense of him, as I love to hear all opinions, I just don’t think you will find any experts that will agree with you. Maybe he is a personal favorite of yours or something. It may cause some to question your football knowledge. Personally I think it is degrading the point you are trying to make, but I am not here to judge and I genuinely enjoy reading others views.

    Last year Tim Patrick averaged 13.6 YPC. He averages 13.7 for his career. Should we be comparing him to DeAndre Hopkins or Keenan Allen? both averaged less YPC than Patrick last year.
    Booker isn’t a personal favorite. I’ve criticized his play when appropriate as much or more than anyone. I could care less about what anyone thinks of my football knowledge.

    I observed the vast majority of this fan base defend signing Flacco as a monumental upgrade. As one of few who questioned the move and was flamed many times, I’ve seen most of those Flacco fans hide from their opinions. Did those fans degrade their “football knowledge” by being on the wrong side of that argument? Does it matter? No.

    As for Hopkins he is a player with consistent play at an elite level over multiple seasons. Gordon hasn’t reached the same level, is a false argument.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Booker isn’t a personal favorite. I’ve criticized his play when appropriate as much or more than anyone. I could care less about what anyone thinks of my football knowledge.

    I observed the vast majority of this fan base defend signing Flacco as a monumental upgrade. As one of few who questioned the move and was flamed many times, I’ve seen most of those Flacco fans hide from their opinions. Did those fans degrade their “football knowledge” by being on the wrong side of that argument? Does it matter? No.

    As for Hopkins he is a player with consistent play at an elite level over multiple seasons. Gordon hasn’t reached the same level, is a false argument.
    Clearly you don’t watch the same football games I do, if you think Booker is close to Gordon. You seem really passionate about a really poor comparison. Feel free to stick with it with someone else.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Booker isn’t a personal favorite. I’ve criticized his play when appropriate as much or more than anyone. I could care less about what anyone thinks of my football knowledge.

    I observed the vast majority of this fan base defend signing Flacco as a monumental upgrade. As one of few who questioned the move and was flamed many times, I’ve seen most of those Flacco fans hide from their opinions. Did those fans degrade their “football knowledge” by being on the wrong side of that argument? Does it matter? No.

    As for Hopkins he is a player with consistent play at an elite level over multiple seasons. Gordon hasn’t reached the same level, is a false argument.
    I defended JF last year and still believe he was an upgrade from CK. But, I didn't believe he was a "monumental" upgrade as you portray. He could've, should've, would've been a better QB behind a good O-line. Which we know was his final straw.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Agree. With Munchak I still believe Wilkinson can develop into a starter at OT. I know he struggled at times last season however he’s coachable. Glasgow and Risner should be a force on the interior. I wonder if we’ll see Wilkinson end up at RG with Glasgow at C, depending on how things shake out. Still time in free agency and cap to work with, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see a veteran tackle signed.
    Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if the plan was Risner, Glasgow, and Wilkinson on the interior. Wilkinson struggled at RT but was adequate at RG despite no NFL experience to that point. I think a switch back to RG would do wonders for him and it allows Schlottman and Morris to work as the backups which IMO is probably going to be solid depth given the way they performed last season.

    OT is an enigma. It’s a need but we’re trapped with James right now while Bolles enters the last year of his rookie deal. Bolles flashed occasionally down the stretch but that was few and far between. The only replacement for James would have to come through a draft pick, I can’t see us investing in a FA there.

    And at the same time I can see Jake Rodgers starting at RT week one with James being a healthy scratch. Rodgers wasn’t very good nor was it pretty but Lock didn’t get sacked much behind the makeshift units with guys like Morris, Schlottman, and Rodgers in the lineup. None of them really looked great but they kept Lock upright and I believe that’s why we aren’t charging hard to get another OT in here.

  7. #67
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    Totally agree with that entire statement!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    Clearly you don’t watch the same football games I do, if you think Booker is close to Gordon. You seem really passionate about a really poor comparison. Feel free to stick with it with someone else.
    They are close depending on which aspect we consider. For example, here are their rookie campaigns:

    Gordon: 184 rush, 641 yards, 0 TD, 3.5 Y/A, 33 Rec and 5.8 Y/Rec, 0 TD

    Booker: 174 rush, 612 yards, 4 TD, 3.5 Y/A, 31 Rec and 8.5 Y/Rec, 1 TD

    Close with the exception of Booker having five more touchdowns.

    It’s difficult to find a good highlight video with the same number of runs and receptions. Looking at highlights I could find as rookies, I saw several similarities.

    Some fans may have forgotten Booker broke his wrist and missed off-season training and preseason heading into 2017. The Broncos had CJ Anderson and Jamaal Charles. Booker didn’t return until the 4th game of the season. I wonder how much that impacted his career.

    Anyway, the above disproves any notion they weren’t “close” as you say. They were in fact close during their rookie campaigns.

  9. #69
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    Booker 7 tds in 4 seasons
    Gordon 47 tds in 5 seasons

    Gordon has knack for finding the end zone.

    Booker has a hard time finding the field.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 03-26-2020 at 08:04 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if the plan was Risner, Glasgow, and Wilkinson on the interior. Wilkinson struggled at RT but was adequate at RG despite no NFL experience to that point. I think a switch back to RG would do wonders for him and it allows Schlottman and Morris to work as the backups which IMO is probably going to be solid depth given the way they performed last season.

    OT is an enigma. It’s a need but we’re trapped with James right now while Bolles enters the last year of his rookie deal. Bolles flashed occasionally down the stretch but that was few and far between. The only replacement for James would have to come through a draft pick, I can’t see us investing in a FA there.

    And at the same time I can see Jake Rodgers starting at RT week one with James being a healthy scratch. Rodgers wasn’t very good nor was it pretty but Lock didn’t get sacked much behind the makeshift units with guys like Morris, Schlottman, and Rodgers in the lineup. None of them really looked great but they kept Lock upright and I believe that’s why we aren’t charging hard to get another OT in here.
    Right. Wilkinson had seven starts at RG in 2018 and twelve at RT last year. He didn't look like a T, but looked like he might be a G. Don't know if he can pull, but that can be figured out.

    Rodgers came off the bench against the Lions and started against the Raiders. He looked better off the bench than as a starter, but he did OK, much better than I expected. He might be OK as a Swing Tackle, but James' availabilty issues dictate the necessity of acquiring a T in the Draft, as you say.

    Denver might draft an inside O-Lineman, too. Ideally, Wilkinson, Schlottmann, Morris and maybe Rodgers would be depth.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if the plan was Risner, Glasgow, and Wilkinson on the interior. Wilkinson struggled at RT but was adequate at RG despite no NFL experience to that point. I think a switch back to RG would do wonders for him and it allows Schlottman and Morris to work as the backups which IMO is probably going to be solid depth given the way they performed last season.

    OT is an enigma. It’s a need but we’re trapped with James right now while Bolles enters the last year of his rookie deal. Bolles flashed occasionally down the stretch but that was few and far between. The only replacement for James would have to come through a draft pick, I can’t see us investing in a FA there.

    And at the same time I can see Jake Rodgers starting at RT week one with James being a healthy scratch. Rodgers wasn’t very good nor was it pretty but Lock didn’t get sacked much behind the makeshift units with guys like Morris, Schlottman, and Rodgers in the lineup. None of them really looked great but they kept Lock upright and I believe that’s why we aren’t charging hard to get another OT in here.
    I definitely think we could see Risner/Glasgow/Wilkinson. The combination could be really strong. If I recall, Glasgow has only given up 1.5 sacks in two seasons. That should help Lock immensely by limiting pressure from the middle. Watching his games last season he was fairly good at recognizing early pressure on the edge and adjusting. I still think there’s an outside chance we sign an OT on a 1 year contract.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Splitting hairs. Holding out for a long term contract translates to earning more money, especially with the short careers many running backs experience.
    So maybe it's the fans who get mad at the players trying to maximize their earning potential who are wrong, not the players or the teams that sign them?
    All it takes to win is doing whatever it takes to win: COMMITMENT

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letswinplz77 View Post
    So maybe it's the fans who get mad at the players trying to maximize their earning potential who are wrong, not the players or the teams that sign them?
    I don’t think fans are inherently wrong for criticizing players on their demands. Each situation is different and sometimes the way a player expresses those demands draws the fire.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jflee66 View Post
    I defended JF last year and still believe he was an upgrade from CK. But, I didn't believe he was a "monumental" upgrade as you portray. He could've, should've, would've been a better QB behind a good O-line. Which we know was his final straw.
    I wasn’t ignoring your post, just don’t want to derail the thread with a Flacco debate. The comment was to illustrate how those who believe they possess superior “football knowledge” have made their share of inaccurate assessments.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Hopefully somebody signs Booker and we can compare their numbers at the end of the year.
    What! he isn't signed yet? Given his impressive statistics, I thought he would have a long term deal by now. I can't imagine how on earth we would let him go.

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