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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    36 rushing touchdowns vs 6 rushing touchdowns. he is obviously better down by the goalline.
    Part of that is having more opportunities inside the 10, 5, etc.

    In terms of running with power one statistic we can quantify is yards after contact. In 2018, Booker and Gordon averaged 2.6 and 2.7 yards after contact, respectively. Those yards can come from breaking tackles, running through a defender, extending the ball, etc. Yards after contact is a more realistic way to measure power. I donít see where Gordon separates himself from Booker.

    Look at Bookerís highlights:

    https://youtu.be/_XolaHZ5N2k

    Now, provide highlights where Gordon is clearly demonstrating better power than Booker. Or receiving skills for that matter.

    The main point is that I didnít believe it was necessary to spend $16 million on Gordon. He might be a great weapon for the offense and that will be awesome if it happens. I just believe you can get similar production at a lower cost. With a roster that lacks depth/talent at OT, CB, ILB and WR, those dollars could be spent better elsewhere. Thatís all.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 03-25-2020 at 08:44 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Part of that is simply having more opportunities inside the 10, 5, etc.

    In terms of running with power one statistic we can quantify is yards after contact. In 2018, Booker and Gordon averaged 2.6 and 2.7 yards after contact. Those yards can come from breaking tackles, running through a defender, extending the ball when being tackled, etc. Yards after contact seems like a more realistic way to measure power. I don’t see where Gordon separates himself from Booker.

    In fact, look at Booker’s highlights:

    https://youtu.be/_XolaHZ5N2k

    Now, provide highlights where Gordon is clearly demonstrating better power than Booker. Or receiving skills for that matter.

    The main point is that I didn’t believe it was necessary to spend $16 million on Gordon. He might be a great weapon for the offense and that will be awesome if it happens. I just happen to believe you can get similar production at a lower cost. With a roster that lacks depth/talent at OT, CB, ILB and WR, I just believe those dollars could be spent better elsewhere. That’s all.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy12MQe4cs0

    heres a highlight from a single game that had some great plays and how he powers through people

    i still don't get how a top ten back in this league should be compared to a guy who will be out of the nfl by the end this year. he may not even be on a team next season
    Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 03-25-2020 at 08:44 PM.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy12MQe4cs0

    heres a highlight from a single game that had some great plays and how he powers through people

    i still don't get how a top ten back in this league should be compared to a guy who will be out of the nfl by the end this year. he may not even be on a team next season
    I donít see anything there better than Booker. Going back to yards after contact, they were nearly identical in 2018. When looking at Bookerís highlights he had the same ability to move defenders and pickup extra yards. Donít misunderstand, Iím not saying Booker would be the choice over Gordon - itís more the opportunity to find a back who can provide similar production at a fraction of the cost.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I don’t see anything there better than Booker. Going back to yards after contact, they were nearly identical in 2018. When looking at Booker’s highlights he had the same ability to move defenders and pickup extra yards. Don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying Booker would be the choice over Gordon - it’s more the opportunity to find a back who can provide similar production at a fraction of the cost.
    and you think the chargers have a top 5 line. i mean like Gordon is obviously more explosive runs with more power and i would trust him to run between the tackles. there is also a huge Difference between 175 and 34 carries. it is easy to average higher numbers on less carries.

    Say what ever you want and i probably wont listen much to it. i am done arguing with you about this when i know that Gordon is Far Superior to Booker and to think other wise is crazy

    gordon had better numbers in 2017 then booker did his whole career.
    Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 03-25-2020 at 09:07 PM.

    oakland raders gm
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Many fans said we had a ton of cap space and look how quickly it disappeared. Elway extended Janovich then cut him. He extended Heuerman who contributed very little. Agree or disagree with not re-signing Chris Harris Jr, Elway played hardball with his contract. Heíll play hardball with guys whoíve proved themselves, but gives away money to those who havenít contributed much.
    OTC has us at 21 mill with all contracts included
    when do native Americans become human and not mascots

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    and you think the chargers have a top 5 line. i mean like Gordon is obviously more explosive runs with more power and i would trust him to run between the tackles. there is also a huge Difference between 175 and 34 carries. it is easy to average higher numbers on less carries.

    Say what ever you want and i probably wont listen much to it. i am done arguing with you about this when i know that Gordon is Far Superior to Booker and to think other wise is crazy

    gordon had better numbers in 2017 then booker did his whole career.
    Again, the larger point is the cost for the production. The yards after contact statistic in 2018 disproves the notion Gordon has ďsuperior powerĒ.

    The roster still lacks talent and depth at OT, CB, ILB and WR. While the draft can address some of those positions I donít believe the cost for Gordon was the best move. James hasnít proven he can stay on the field. Bouye is the only legitimate starting CB considering Callahan unknown with the injury history. Bausby is coming off a serious neck injury. When the roster has that many needs I believe a good running back can be found at a much lower cost.

    Time will tell if the money spent on Gordon could have been better spent elsewhere.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    OTC has us at 21 mill with all contracts included
    Including projected cost for the draft/rookie contracts?

  8. #38
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    From Brad Gagnon on free agent moves each team might regret:

    ďConsidering that the Denver Broncos already possess two quality young running backs in Phillip Lindsay and Royce Freeman, it was odd to see them hand veteran Melvin Gordon III a two-year, $16 million with $13.5 million guaranteed.

    Yes, the soon-to-be 27-year-old is a two-time Pro Bowler. But Gordon has averaged at least 4.0 yards per carry just once in his five-year career. He's gone over 1,000 yards just once, and he's played a full 16 games just once. In 2019, he fumbled four times while averaging just 3.8 yards per attempt.

    And yet Gordon is now the sixth-highest-paid running back in the NFL, with a contract that gives Denver little wiggle room after this season.

    That financial commitment will likely put pressure on offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur to play Gordon often, even if he's not as effective as Lindsay and/or Freeman, which could broadly hurt the Broncos offense.

    This was a reach for general manager John Elway.Ē

    Again, I would have preferred spending the money on a CB, OT, ILB, DL, WR or Safety.

    Gordon is signed, so now itís a matter of trying to make her most of the remaining cap.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Again, the larger point is the cost for the production. The yards after contact statistic in 2018 disproves the notion Gordon has ďsuperior powerĒ.

    The roster still lacks talent and depth at OT, CB, ILB and WR. While the draft can address some of those positions I donít believe the cost for Gordon was the best move. James hasnít proven he can stay on the field. Bouye is the only legitimate starting CB considering Callahan unknown with the injury history. Bausby is coming off a serious neck injury. When the roster has that many needs I believe a good running back can be found at a much lower cost.

    Time will tell if the money spent on Gordon could have been better spent elsewhere.
    You are ridiculous. You don't like a move so you compare it to some one who will be out of the nfl soon. So do you know the last denver running back to score at least 10 tds rushing. Last one I can find is Moreno in 2013. Anderson's never did it. Neither Freeman or lindsey has done it. Lindsey was close with 9 in 2018. If we could get the touchdown production easy that gordon has got why haven't we seen it yet?

    Last thing your comparing a back out of a job and probably out of the nfl soon. To a back that took a discount and still got 8 m a year. Your comparing a back who could not sniff a starting role to a top ten back in this league. You are trying to spread lies and incorrect facts about it to make you look better. The. When some one calls you out you ignore it. You are just making your self look stupid with stupid claims. Such as calling one of the worst lines In the nfl a top 5 line and comparing a back who wont be In the nfl with in the next year to a top ten back who has had a good career. I don't get how this makes sense other then I don't like this signing so I am gonna say stupid things to try to make this look better. And any one can make any player look good in highlights. I mean it is a clip of there best plays from there career. They should look better then they actually are.

    Also it is alot harder to average things when you have more carries. If you think other wise your just don't understand.

  10. #40
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    What am I actually reading????? There is no way Booker is close to Melvin Gordon. I'm not a big fan of Melvin Gordon but he is WAY better than Devonte Booker.
    New England Patriots GM

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    You are ridiculous. You don't like a move so you compare it to some one who will be out of the nfl soon. So do you know the last denver running back to score at least 10 tds rushing. Last one I can find is Moreno in 2013. Anderson's never did it. Neither Freeman or lindsey has done it. Lindsey was close with 9 in 2018. If we could get the touchdown production easy that gordon has got why haven't we seen it yet?

    Last thing your comparing a back out of a job and probably out of the nfl soon. To a back that took a discount and still got 8 m a year. Your comparing a back who could not sniff a starting role to a top ten back in this league. You are trying to spread lies and incorrect facts about it to make you look better. The. When some one calls you out you ignore it. You are just making your self look stupid with stupid claims. Such as calling one of the worst lines In the nfl a top 5 line and comparing a back who wont be In the nfl with in the next year to a top ten back who has had a good career. I don't get how this makes sense other then I don't like this signing so I am gonna say stupid things to try to make this look better. And any one can make any player look good in highlights. I mean it is a clip of there best plays from there career. They should look better then they actually are.

    Also it is alot harder to average things when you have more carries. If you think other wise your just don't understand.
    Running backs have short careers which is why Iím not an advocate of spending a lot for the position. With respect to Gordonís touchdowns, one could also ask why he only had one 1000 yard season? Lindsay has two in as many seasons.

    With respect to the line in LA that was a projection for the 2019 season for running backs. What was the rushing rating of their line last season? I donít have the PFF subscription to see the rush blocking ratings. I donít put a lot of stock in those ratings (going into 2019 PFF had Antonio Brown as the lowest rated WR on the Raiders roster).

    Booker was just an example with similar average production in a season. There are fewer carries and receptions which shows how well he did with limited attempts. Itís not to say heís as good as Gordon overall. Itís fact that Booker did as well in a season when he got the opportunity, just in terms of yards/rush and yards/reception. Itís not to say heís as good as Gordon overall. Backs like Booker or others would come at a fraction of the price allowing room to sign another quality free agent.

    I said previously in another thread Gordon isnít a bad signing. Just the thought the roster has other needs that I believe are more important. With Gordonís skills he should help the offense - he better at $16 million. Letís hope his production isnít offset by lack of talent at other positions such as CB giving up big plays.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 03-26-2020 at 06:21 AM.

  12. #42
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    I'm really hoping that Shelby returns to Denver. I'd love a line of Casey-Purcell-Harris, and we can sub dremont in for Purcell on passing downs.

  13. #43
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    In regards to Gordon not having more 1k yard seasons, the oline while not 100% the issue is a big factor in it. Gordon in 2018 averaged 2.3 yards before contact, that same season Lindsay averaged 3.7 yards before contact. Gordon would have had an absurd 6.5 ypc if he averaged what Lindsay did. Last season Gordon averaged 1.9 yards before contact while Lindsay averaged 2.7 yards before contact. Freeman averaged an abysmal 1.5 and 1.8 showcasing that he lacks the explosion to get through the holes. Booker had 2.7 in 2018.

    Now thereís more to that than just the oline as I alluded to. Lindsay is a lot smaller and it does benefit him in that heís hard to find and easy to slip through lanes. Gordon is a much bigger RB so he probably wonít match what Lindsay does in yards before contact. But I do expect his number to fall in line around what Booker got in 2018. Also I canít help but feel the ultra low squatty stance Gordon likes hurts his explosion. Itís fine for short yardage situations as it allows him to get under defenders and drive but Adrian Peterson is the only RB that can pull that off consistently.

    Whatís more astonishing is that last season Lindsay broke a tackle every 7.7 carries, in comparison Derrick Henry broke a tackle every 10.4.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    I'm really hoping that Shelby returns to Denver. I'd love a line of Casey-Purcell-Harris, and we can sub dremont in for Purcell on passing downs.
    I was hoping for that too. Just not seeing it unless he accepts much less then he was expecting. Maybe he overestimated his value and the market dries up? Broncos hopefully get a one year deal?

    Still would like to see dline ( or two) Oline and CB signed. Not a lot of cap left to do it except on lesser deals. Which usually means lesser talent with legitimate concerns of those prove it deals.

    Canít imagine Harris accepting in the $6-8M range, even now. Maybe Wolfe? That is about all the Broncos can offer.

    JMO but DLine- $7M, swing OT -$2-3M and CB -$2-3 M is pushing the budget even with creative bookkeeping. Not hoping for much more in free agency. If even this!

  15. #45
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    The other I wanna notate. The best way to control an explosive offense is to play ball control and limit how much they get the ball. Gordon should help with that

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