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  1. #61
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    I have NEVER dismissed Ruggs speed element and I freely acknowledge he would take pressure off the top. Ruggs has all world speed and it is part of the analysis. But we would be drafting on potential not performance, we are drafting on speed not overall skill set. It could very well work out.. If he had 4.4 speed instead of 4.27 speed we would not be talking about him higher than any of these guys. And you are right his all world speed is part of the equation, but let's not make it out like he has better overall receiving skills. It is just not true, IMO of course.

    He plays more like a better route version of Fuller than Hill. Tyreek Hill has special attributes to be straight line fast and have the fast quirky quickness also. It is what makes him so special and why he is such a good return man. Ruggs does not have KJ Hamlers wiggle. Just watch some highlights of Hamler and you will see a player closer to Hill. Ruggs will probably not return punts. He will give all world speed to the team, but I think the distinction is important for all of you that think we would be drafting Hill. I also love that Ruggs does not get injured and he is bigger than the Hills and Hamlers of the world.

    I like Ruggs a lot just not as much as Jeudy or Jefferson.


    But....

    The analysis that I was specifically responding to is that Ruggs is more physical than Jeudy (or any other receiver we are discussing). Or that he can high point the ball and catch in space and Jeudy can not. This is NOT true. The opposite is true. Don't take my word for it, read what draft profiles have to say. Watch some tape for yourself. There are plenty of reruns available and not much other sports out there right now. Ruggs has never shown those skills and I think most would argue they are his weaknesses.

    It is also really tough for me to ignore the two seasons that Ruggs had. They were very average. It is tough for me to ignore his lack of performance in key games.

    You can call that over analysis if you want, but I might feel that it is common sense to ask the question of why?

    If Elway has said he wants guys that love football, have performed at a high level, and are leaders on the team -- I would ask is this Ruggs?

    And honestly I don't know how much he loves the game. I don't know his work ethic and attitude. I can see his performance and I can see his role on the team. If I was drafting, I would be doing so much research on the reasons he did not perform in that offense.

    Ruggs could have had (should have had) Devonta Smith's numbers. Smith was more often the deep threat. Ruggs was overshadowed.

    ok I have said my peace. I think everyone has had to read my opinion too much on this topic for a few days at least.

    Really enjoy the discussion and perspectives! Keep up the good work.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Going a different direction from the Ruggs v Jeudy choice, the Broncos might not be in a bad situation if the top 3 WRs and the top o-linemen are off the board. That's because Justin Jefferson might not be a bad plan B. Had a big season in a pro style passing scheme, and was an absolute beast in the 3 playoff games (counting the SEC Championship game).

    SEC Championship Game 7 catches for 115 yards 1 TD
    CFP Semi Final Game 14 catches for 227 yards 4 TDs
    CFP Championship Game 9 catches for 106 yards

    So in the three biggest games of the season he had 30 catches for 448 yards and 5 touchdowns. You can't argue the clutch factor with him.

    He's not a bad consolation prize if Denver sees the worst case scenario ahead of them.
    I love Jefferson. I could see him becoming the best WR from this draft (but there are probably at least a handful that could end up taking that prize. 6'3 with those balls skills, running a 4.4 40, and terrorizing big time college football like he did... Wow.. impressive. I would be very happy to end up with Jefferson.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Tavon Austin also had a much better pedigree coming out of college. He had more catches and yardage in each of his last two years at Clemson as Ruggs has had in his entire college career. Right now the Ruggs hype is mostly about what people think he will able to do in the NFL, but which he didn't do in college.

    They look at him, his fast 40 and think it's the next Tyreek Hill (skill wise, not character wise that I've heard about).
    Besides the fact there is more to Ruggs than the 40, whatís wrong with being the next Tyreek Hill? SFís defense did nearly everything right until Hill made the play to start the comeback. When you have a player faster than any DB you have the advantage. It might have only been one play but thatís what crushed SF on 3rd and long.

    Ruggs is a good blocker and loved playing Special Teams. Not that youíre drafting him for Special Teams but it says a lot about him. While Jeudy had more receptions and yards, Ruggs had the highest yards/reception and significantly higher scrimmage yards/play.

    Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs are all talented receivers. Lamb was the only legitimate star at Oklahoma which helped build the stats. Thatís not to take anything away from him.

    Anyone pointing at the ďhypeĒ with the 40 isnít taking the time to look beyond the headlines.

  4. #64
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    Jefferson is very intriguing as well, I have him in the second tier of WR. One thing about Jefferson is he worked primarily out of the slot. In college he could abuse guys, because typically collegiate level slot CBs are not great. I also liked what Hamilton was showing with Lock towards the end of the season. The question becomes does Jefferson do enough to help improve the offense?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Besides the fact there is more to Ruggs than the 40, what’s wrong with being the next Tyreek Hill? SF’s defense did nearly everything right until Hill made the play to start the comeback. When you have a player faster than any DB you have the advantage. It might have only been one play but that’s what crushed SF on 3rd and long.

    Ruggs is a good blocker and loved playing Special Teams. Not that you’re drafting him for Special Teams but it says a lot about him. While Jeudy had more receptions and yards, Ruggs had the highest yards/reception and significantly higher scrimmage yards/play.

    Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs are all talented receivers. Lamb was the only legitimate star at Oklahoma which helped build the stats. That’s not to take anything away from him.

    Anyone pointing at the “hype” with the 40 isn’t taking the time to look beyond the headlines.
    There's just as much of a chance that he's the next Tavon Austin or John Ross as Tyreek Hill.

    I'm not big into analytics in football, but here's an article that talks about how analytics aren't in Ruggs corner.
    https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/draft...wr-henry-ruggs

    However I do acknowledge PFF thinks he's well worth a top 10 pick.

    There are many different opinions on Ruggs, but just because Tyreek Hill is a star doesn't automatically mean Ruggs will be one.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    There's just as much of a chance that he's the next Tavon Austin or John Ross as Tyreek Hill.

    I'm not big into analytics in football, but here's an article that talks about how analytics aren't in Ruggs corner.
    https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/draft...wr-henry-ruggs

    However I do acknowledge PFF thinks he's well worth a top 10 pick.

    There are many different opinions on Ruggs, but just because Tyreek Hill is a star doesn't automatically mean Ruggs will be one.
    Difference between Ruggs and those other guys was that they were fast guys who played WR. Ruggs is a WR who is fast. Even Tyreek was not as talented a route runner as Ruggs coming out.

  7. #67
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    I would assume that WR, OL, and CB our are highest needs. Personally I am ok with drafting Kinlaw still if the top 4 OT and top 3 WRs are gone. I didn't want to start a new thread but I have some serious man crushes on Viska in the 2nd, Arnette in the 2nd, and Ruiz in the 2nd. I might be sick to my stomach if we draft Hamler in the 2nd though. I think MLB has some very athletic players to be had with one of our thirds, as well as a swing tackle. I don't think OT is a target until the 3rd unless all the 3 wrs are gone in the first and an OT falls.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewmlb View Post
    I would assume that WR, OL, and CB our are highest needs. Personally I am ok with drafting Kinlaw still if the top 4 OT and top 3 WRs are gone. I didn't want to start a new thread but I have some serious man crushes on Viska in the 2nd, Arnette in the 2nd, and Ruiz in the 2nd. I might be sick to my stomach if we draft Hamler in the 2nd though. I think MLB has some very athletic players to be had with one of our thirds, as well as a swing tackle. I don't think OT is a target until the 3rd unless all the 3 wrs are gone in the first and an OT falls.
    Would you take Kinlaw over CJ Henderson?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    There's just as much of a chance that he's the next Tavon Austin or John Ross as Tyreek Hill.

    I'm not big into analytics in football, but here's an article that talks about how analytics aren't in Ruggs corner.
    https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/draft...wr-henry-ruggs

    However I do acknowledge PFF thinks he's well worth a top 10 pick.

    There are many different opinions on Ruggs, but just because Tyreek Hill is a star doesn't automatically mean Ruggs will be one.
    This is similar to your analysis on players like Kyler Murray. Murray was going to be a ďmassive bustĒ, maybe win 1-2 games and the Cardinals would be drafting a QB in the 2020 draft. How did that turn out? Murray, with very little talent on offense finished 2019 with 64.4% comp, 3722 pass yards and 20 TD. Not to mention the fact he made it through the season, something you assured everyone would not happen due to his size.

    Iím not making the case Ruggs is the best prospect in this draft. I just believe youíre too focused on his speed as the only thing he offers. Itís very similar to the way you dismissed Murray.

  10. #70
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    I think what the team needs now is pretty obvious to fans and front office. The difference is what does the FO prioritize? Fans are all over the board, some want WR some want OT some want CB some want DL. A lot of fans are hell bent on OT but I don't get the feeling Elway and Co. hold that same position.

    I think Elway sits tight at 15 and takes the highest rated guy on his board. Imo, it won't be DL with Casey and Shelby resigning. I also think OT isn't going to be the pick because they will be picked clean by then. I think it boils down to WR or CB and imo, it will be WR in round 1 and either CB or ILB in round 2

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post

    I think Elway sits tight at 15 and takes the highest rated guy on his board. Imo, it won't be DL with Casey and Shelby resigning. I also think OT isn't going to be the pick because they will be picked clean by then. I think it boils down to WR or CB and imo, it will be WR in round 1 and either CB or ILB in round 2
    why discard DL because of the Harris deal? It is a 1 year deal. Anyone we draft will be to contribute longer term.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Would you take Kinlaw over CJ Henderson?
    Yes. Henderson is not a good tackler and would not be a great fit in Fangio's defense that requires corners to be good at off-man and zone coverage as well.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    why discard DL because of the Harris deal? It is a 1 year deal. Anyone we draft will be to contribute longer term.
    If Kinlaw is the BPA at 15, Iíd take him. Harris is on a 1 year deal and Casey is 30. Agree.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    I think what the team needs now is pretty obvious to fans and front office. The difference is what does the FO prioritize? Fans are all over the board, some want WR some want OT some want CB some want DL. A lot of fans are hell bent on OT but I don't get the feeling Elway and Co. hold that same position.

    I think Elway sits tight at 15 and takes the highest rated guy on his board. Imo, it won't be DL with Casey and Shelby resigning. I also think OT isn't going to be the pick because they will be picked clean by then. I think it boils down to WR or CB and imo, it will be WR in round 1 and either CB or ILB in round 2
    I hope your right. Iíve done a dozen simulated mocks and the top 3 receivers are gone more often than the top 4 tackles.

    The way Iíd select them:
    1. Cee Dee Lamb
    2. Jerry Jeudy
    3. Henry Ruggs
    4. Andrew Thomas
    If Isiah Simmons fell was there Iíd be torn!!!!!
    Last edited by 58Miller; 03-29-2020 at 02:35 PM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
    Yes. Henderson is not a good tackler and would not be a great fit in Fangio's defense that requires corners to be good at off-man and zone coverage as well.
    Thatís a good point, Fangio favorís Corners who can tackle.
    I think he said itís a deal breaker.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 03-29-2020 at 01:59 PM.

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