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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    To be clear I'm talking yards after contact, not yards after catch.
    He is not a RB.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    Alabama was loaded. I agree the other two weren’t helping Ruggs because Ruggs didn’t get much. 40 catches in that offense is not very good. I also agree Ruggs had a positive impact, that is different than being specifically game planned against. Safeties were over the top because all 4 guys could go over the top. All 4.

    Lamb was game planned against in the semi final game. Go watch how LSU played him. Ruggs didn’t get anywhere near the same treatment. In the LSU game, Where was Stingley when the game mattered most? Where was Delpit?

    I agree that Ruggs had an impact on how teams played them. My point is that he was not specifically game planned against like many #1 receivers are, he was not even the best deep threat on his team. If he is better than Jeudy or Smith he should have had more than 40 catches for a mediocre 748 yards.

    I really like the speed and would agree he could change the dynamic of how we are covered. He would likely have a Will Fuller type of impact. But he could also be Ross, who actually had a MUCH better college career at Washington than Ruggs did at Bama.
    In top coverage ensuring he wasn't torching them over the top. The fact you put Ross and Ruggs in the same comparison means you haven't looked at anything other than speed. In terms of route running, hands, and being an overall WR, Ruggs blows Ross out of the water and it's not even close. It's a laughable comparison.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    He is not a RB.
    When you're being drafted this high you are looking for #1 game changers. He struggles being physical, which he will need in the NFL. He doesn't have the contested catch ability of Ruggs. He's a top tier #2 guy though.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    In top coverage ensuring he wasn't torching them over the top. The fact you put Ross and Ruggs in the same comparison means you haven't looked at anything other than speed. In terms of route running, hands, and being an overall WR, Ruggs blows Ross out of the water and it's not even close. It's a laughable comparison.
    Surely you haven’t read many of my posts, but that is ok. We all have opinions.

    Ross had size/ strength concerns but he ran more than just the deep ball. I also had the opportunity to watch him three times in person. He is fast but ran more than just the deep ball in college. He had a massive senior year. He had more strengths than just speed, some are similar to Ruggs. Ruggs has some other strengths that Ross doesn’t have (college view. No doubt Ross has been a disappointment)

    There are certainly differences in their games but both are not top 15 guys if they didn’t run in the 4.2s

    But yes, if Ruggs comes in and becomes the 3rd WR on a team that gets what he got in college, he will be John Ross

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    When you're being drafted this high you are looking for #1 game changers. He struggles being physical, which he will need in the NFL. He doesn't have the contested catch ability of Ruggs. He's a top tier #2 guy though.
    Let’s bring another opinion in

    In Jeudy’s listed strengths on his NFL draft profile, on NFL.com it says

    -Above-average use of frame to win contested catches
    -Secures the ball through punishing contact

    He has a weakness that he has not faced press coverage often

    And I should not have been so snippy on the RB comment. That wasn’t very nice. I am sure you know what YAC is generally referring to in WRs. I apologize

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    Surely you haven’t read many of my posts, but that is ok. We all have opinions.

    Ross had size/ strength concerns but he ran more than just the deep ball. I also had the opportunity to watch him three times in person. He is fast but ran more than just the deep ball in college. He had a massive senior year. He had more strengths than just speed, some are similar to Ruggs. Ruggs has some other strengths that Ross doesn’t have (college view. No doubt Ross has been a disappointment)

    There are certainly differences in their games but both are not top 15 guys if they didn’t run in the 4.2s

    But yes, if Ruggs comes in and becomes the 3rd WR on a team that gets what he got in college, he will be John Ross
    Then you just have no idea what you're looking at tbh. Ruggs might have been one of if not theost diverse route runners in college. He had the highest yards touch on the entire team. Ruggs cleared out for guys like Smith and Jeudy. Yet he scored 1 out of every 4 touches. The Ross comparison is just down right terrible. You can't look past a 40 time and that is just unfortunate. Take away his speed and he's not a top 15 argument is so lame. Take away Jeudy's footwork he's not a top 15 guy, take away Lambs big play ability he's not a top 15 guy, take away whatever attribute helps make a player special they are not a high pick.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    Then you just have no idea what you're looking at tbh. Ruggs might have been one of if not theost diverse route runners in college. He had the highest yards touch on the entire team. Ruggs cleared out for guys like Smith and Jeudy. Yet he scored 1 out of every 4 touches. The Ross comparison is just down right terrible. You can't look past a 40 time and that is just unfortunate. Take away his speed and he's not a top 15 argument is so lame. Take away Jeudy's footwork he's not a top 15 guy, take away Lambs big play ability he's not a top 15 guy, take away whatever attribute helps make a player special they are not a high pick.
    Here are some of Ruggs weaknesses as listed on NFL.com in his draft profile

    -Had issues dealing with physical LSU cover corners
    -Contested catches could be a challenge early on
    -Must learn to protect the catch-point with his frame
    -Very average as deep-ball tracker
    -Better speed than wiggle on runs after catch

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    Let’s bring another opinion in

    In Jeudy’s listed strengths on his NFL draft profile, on NFL.com it says

    -Above-average use of frame to win contested catches
    -Secures the ball through punishing contact

    He has a weakness that he has not faced press coverage often

    And I should not have been so snippy on the RB comment. That wasn’t very nice. I am sure you know what YAC is generally referring to in WRs. I apologize
    Beating press coverage, battling for contested catches, taking contact and continuing the play after. He had unnecessary drops as well, catching the ball with his body not extending. He looks okay against younger and developing college players, but in the NFL he won't get that.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    Beating press coverage, battling for contested catches, taking contact and continuing the play after. He had unnecessary drops as well, catching the ball with his body not extending. He looks okay against younger and developing college players, but in the NFL he won't get that.
    If you are not impressed with Jeudy’s tape the bar is pretty high. 2 time all American, top Belitnikauf winner, played against elite CBs and has the goods to back it up.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    If you are not impressed with Jeudy’s tape the bar is pretty high. 2 time all American, top Belitnikauf winner, played against elite CBs and has the goods to back it up.
    I never said I wasn't impressed with his tape, I'm saying when debating who should be taken for us his concerns and positives compared to Ruggs are to be brought up.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by the0rangecrush View Post
    I never said I wasn't impressed with his tape, I'm saying when debating who should be taken for us his concerns and positives compared to Ruggs are to be brought up.
    That is very fair and what we should be doing. I agree with you. Jeudy did have a few drops where he let the ball get into his body. He is also a bit leggy at times, but he has pretty good juke and has very real yards after the catch skills.

    I fear my posts have become far too critical of Ruggs in an attempt to have this discussion. I actually would not be disappointed if we picked him. He is not my first choice and would rather take Jeudy or even Jefferson over Ruggs. But IF we pick him I will hope I am wrong for a decade. I actually like the thought of Ruggs on the team, but given Ruggs vs Jeudy? If Jeudy is still on the board at 15 I would be sprinting to the podium to get the name in. Ruggs would certainly change the dynamic of our offense in a way that few in this draft could, but he has a risk of not being a big producer like many probably will.

    And for the record, I was not trying to say Ruggs IS John Ross. I was saying there is a chance he becomes what he is at Alabama. A 3rd WR that provides some impact but is not even the second best WR on his team. I think his floor is John Ross. His ceiling is somewhere between OBJ and Will Fuller (without the injuries I hope). And yes, John Ross did have a much better college career and his draft rating, before his draft, was a very close score to Ruggs. Most were wrong. Ross has been a disaster (but that happens with a lot of guys). I do see differences in their game, but Ruggs really should have done more in college with this skill set, and I think it is fair to ask why? If we had interviews with him, I would be asking him about his love for the game, his competition, how bad he wants it. Clearly I can't ask those questions as I am just a hack nerd that loves to watch reruns of college football.

    I like Ruggs skill set and potential, but I want to be clear, we would be drafting him on potential. He had 2 very similar seasons at Alabama and they were very average. Jefferson, at 6'3 195, running a 4.3 40 had a better year this year than Ruggs entire career. And before he call him a one trick pony... 2 years ago, when LSU didn't throw the ball like they did last year, Jefferson had a stronger season than Ruggs. Ruggs tape is just not very good compared to Jeudy, Lamb, Claypool, and Jefferson.

    Also if you look at Ruggs he is more speed after the catch than small space quickness. He takes yards by the 10s but he is not a return type of guy like Hill. Now KJ Hamler, that is a fun dude to watch. It is why Ruggs wasn't the return man. Tyreek Hill has both... But in defense of Ruggs, Hill was a 3rd round pick with domestic violence issues that mostly played RB at Oklahoma State. His tape probably didn't reflect what he would become and I hope the same for Ruggs.

    If we draft Ruggs I will be happy and hope that we coax him out of his shell to be at least a #2 WR.

  12. #57
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    I agree with the needs, we have completely avoided adding anything to our WR and did I read somewhere that we are the only team in the NFL paying RBs more than our WRs?!?

    Needs are WR (at least 2), OL, CB and then ILB/Safety.

    I really hope that one of the top 3 WRs are there at #15, but if not then I guess we do need to consider BPA a go OT (Thomas) or maybe Kinlaw (DL). We could really use someone on the DL long-term - no heir apparent like we have with Chubb. The CB market isn't there in the first, so I think we do take someone in the trenches (again assuming all 3 WRs are gone).

    We really need to help the CB position - I like Buoye and see him as a replacement for Harris, but the group was weak last year and they can't trust Callahan at this point.

    OT is extremely weak on this team - I liked how well Bolles played late in the season, but I believe Lock is a big part of that - but maybe it was Munchak earning his high praise. Lock will make the OL look better because he is a good decision maker. Risner and Glasgow are studs, but that is only 2 of 5. We need to find another Guard or Center and a tackle to replace one of the two. James may be a bust, I have more faith in Bolles at this point, at least I know Bolles gives everything he has each play. I am fine with 2 OL in the first 5 picks. We need some talent added there just as much as we do to the CB and WR position.

    Last 2 spot that is a need is a replacement for Davis in the middle and a safety to play with Simmons and Jackson (honestly the best duo in the NFL).

    Lots of options depending on how the draft shakes out. There are still many CB on the market that could come in and fill that roll. We missed all the potential #2-#3 WR that were available (I guess we need 100 catches by RBs and a big step forward for the Fant) so we have to address WR. Maybe we bring in Jason Peters for a decent one year with option. Fun times ahead for the Broncos.

  13. #58
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    All I know is Ruggs is a hell of a play maker that would help the Bronco offense. Similar to how the T. Hill threat opens things up for Kelce, Watkins and others. Just being on the field changes things.

    I have seen a few times the comment “ if it wasn’t for his speed he would not be considered as a 1st rd pick”. That is a part of his skillset, how do you dismiss it in an evaluation?

    Would Simmons be a coveted top 10 pick if not for his speed separating him from others? Or Becton a first rd pick if not for his ridiculous 40 time at the combine? How about all the preferred later WR picks “ that are just as good” . Isn’t it usually the speed that is mentioned first?

    We are over analyzing. I am not even disagreeing that Jeudy or other WRs may be “better” or “better values” if chosen in later rds.

    I just keep it simple. I prefer what Ruggs will add to the Broncos offense. His speed and overall abilities are explosive, especially when combined with a strong armed and more importantly accurate deep ball QB . That excites me as a fan!

    Hopefully Ruggs is at #15 and we will find out if Elway thinks it is the “best” choice too.

  14. #59
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    Going a different direction from the Ruggs v Jeudy choice, the Broncos might not be in a bad situation if the top 3 WRs and the top o-linemen are off the board. That's because Justin Jefferson might not be a bad plan B. Had a big season in a pro style passing scheme, and was an absolute beast in the 3 playoff games (counting the SEC Championship game).

    SEC Championship Game 7 catches for 115 yards 1 TD
    CFP Semi Final Game 14 catches for 227 yards 4 TDs
    CFP Championship Game 9 catches for 106 yards

    So in the three biggest games of the season he had 30 catches for 448 yards and 5 touchdowns. You can't argue the clutch factor with him.

    He's not a bad consolation prize if Denver sees the worst case scenario ahead of them.

  15. #60
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    I’m not negative about Jefferson or any of about half dozen other WR options discussed. And if Jefferson is chosen I’m all in. As you point out a highly skilled player.

    But if we over analyze Jefferson the same way we do every player, including Ruggs. Then you could question whether his stats were not pumped up because of the high powered creative offense designed by the OC, ran by the number one pick QB, augmented by a RB going in the 2nd rd and could arguably be called the second option WR behind Chase.

    Again, not disagreeing that Jefferson would not be a valuable addition to the offense. Just pointing out we can build up or tear down any prospect depending on our POV.

    I prefer Ruggs. But I also think he is likely off the board by #15 and unwilling to use the assets to move up to get him. But Jefferson or 3-5 others would be adequate alternatives if that is how the draft plays out.

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