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Thread: Lindsay.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Good to hear if true, but why would the Cowboys want to trade for a RB especially after drafting Pollard to play behind Zeke?
    Idk maybe McCarthy had other plans for him but that’s the report stoke gave.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    We have done this dance already, nothing at all needs to happen with Lindsay. The Broncos pretty much own Lindsay for the foreseeable future, and Linsday has no leverage to play any games to change that. But he wont hold out or create waves anyway, it makes no sense from his side to do it, and anyone worried about it shouldn't be, Lindsay is here as long as the Broncos decide. Here is a brief summary of the other 2 threads this has been discussed:

    Argument 1: You can re-sign undrafted rookies after 2 seasons.

    Response: It's never happened though, and no agent has any reference point what so ever to approach team management to argue their client should be extended. An agent wont even try because they know if demands are not giving into, they have no leverage, what are they going to ?

    Argument 2: Someone will poach Lindsay if we just tender him next off-season.

    Response: No one is giving up a first or second round pick for Lindsay plus a contract. The last running back RFA tendered and signed elsewhere was when Gilislee went from the Bills to the Patriots, and he was tendered at his original round, a late round pick. This doesn't happen.

    Argument 3: The team will revolt, show the locker room you take care of your guys.

    Response: You think players will care that Lindsay isn't getting extended after 2 seasons in the league when they have to wait 4 ? No other player is going to be annoyed that Lindsay has to wait just like them, it's a non-issue.

    Argument 4: Other UDFA players wont come here if we don't take care of Lindsay.

    Response: A guy who just went undrafted is going to jump at any opportunity where an NFL contract and a good roster situation is presented, think about where an undrafted guys head is at right after the draft, he is desperate and has zero leverage.


    Argument 5: Lindsay could just hold out.

    Response: Maybe Lindsay could ask his new running mate Melvin Gordon how that works out ? Maybe Lindsay has noticed that running backs have zero bargaining power in the NFL, and when they hold out into the season, it doesn't work.

    Argument 6: Just do it, take care of him, it's a nice thing to do

    Response: Teams don't care about this, it's a business. I wouldn't mind Phillip getting a small bump in pay, maybe 3 million per season, but it doesn't need to happen, and he doesn't need to be catered to. I love Phillip, but the position he plays, his value isn't that high on an open market, and on a trade market, it's even lower.
    Only correct if an UDFA is only offered a contract by a single team. There are a log lot of UDFAs that have multiple teams offer them contracts, including Lindsay.

    Reason to do it: Lindsay is the best feel good story on the Broncos and is probably the most popular Bronco in Denver and is important in the community.

    Reason to do it: Smart business owners understand the concept of Internal Marketing, which is treating employees farily with respect. Not every benefit is tangible or can have a dollar value placed on it.

    Reason to do it: Elway said he would. There's no excuse for not keeping your word.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    good to hear if true, but why would the cowboys want to trade for a rb especially after drafting pollard to play behind zeke?
    cause lindsay is gooooood !!!!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Only correct if an UDFA is only offered a contract by a single team. There are a log lot of UDFAs that have multiple teams offer them contracts, including Lindsay.

    Reason to do it: Lindsay is the best feel good story on the Broncos and is probably the most popular Bronco in Denver and is important in the community.

    Reason to do it: Smart business owners understand the concept of Internal Marketing, which is treating employees farily with respect. Not every benefit is tangible or can have a dollar value placed on it.

    Reason to do it: Elway said he would. There's no excuse for not keeping your word.
    That is where the little bit of extra money comes in, like we have recently done to secure a few guys like Rypien, and where the aforementioned playing time potential comes into the equation. If you have a young guy who has more than one contract offer and the money is the same, but the chance to play is higher, therefore securing them a job long-term, they are not worried about Lindsay not getting taken care of after 2 years. This situation in all the years of the current system has NEVER not even ONCE been an issue, and it wont be here.

    Smart business owners understand leverage and market value, that is where the Broncos currently have EVERY advantage in this situation if it was to turn sour, which it wont. Also, the treatment of employees is obviously huge in keeping high morale and motivation in a workplace, and that would be an issue, IF, drafted players, which is majority of NFL players, didn't themselves have to wait 4 years to see that second contract. They will not feel Lindsay is hard done by, again nullifying the argument.

    Your reasons to do it don't really counter any argument against doing it. Don't get me wrong, I would be fine with it happening, but I push back at the idea of it being an issue, and the countless made up fan reasons to why it could become one hold no weight.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    That is where the little bit of extra money comes in, like we have recently done to secure a few guys like Rypien, and where the aforementioned playing time potential comes into the equation. If you have a young guy who has more than one contract offer and the money is the same, but the chance to play is higher, therefore securing them a job long-term, they are not worried about Lindsay not getting taken care of after 2 years. This situation in all the years of the current system has NEVER not even ONCE been an issue, and it wont be here.

    Smart business owners understand leverage and market value, that is where the Broncos currently have EVERY advantage in this situation if it was to turn sour, which it wont. Also, the treatment of employees is obviously huge in keeping high morale and motivation in a workplace, and that would be an issue, IF, drafted players, which is majority of NFL players, didn't themselves have to wait 4 years to see that second contract. They will not feel Lindsay is hard done by, again nullifying the argument.

    Your reasons to do it don't really counter any argument against doing it. Don't get me wrong, I would be fine with it happening, but I push back at the idea of it being an issue, and the countless made up fan reasons to why it could become one hold no weight.
    Smart business owners list both pros and cons of their options, not just the ones that fit an agenda or to win an argument.

    Elway saying he would does counter every argument you made. And I'm pretty sure he will. He's just waiting for the dust to clear and see how much cap/money is left because Elway realizes he does have leverage and it isn't a priority now, but it makes sound business sense then. And this is one example where a smart business owner weighs both Pros and Cons and comes up with the best solution considering ALL the variables.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Smart business owners list both pros and cons of their options, not just the ones that fit an agenda or to win an argument.

    Elway saying he would does counter every argument you made. And I'm pretty sure he will. He's just waiting for the dust to clear and see how much cap/money is left because Elway realizes he does have leverage and it isn't a priority now, but it makes sound business sense then. And this is one example where a smart business owner weighs both Pros and Cons and comes up with the best solution considering ALL the variables.
    No it does not. The arguments are counters to points that people are making thinking some issue is going to happen with Lindsay based on zero precedent what so ever. As I said, I want it to happen, but it doesn't have to happen. Also, if Elway does sign him now, which I think he will, it doesn't counter anything either or change the fact the Broncos have all the power here, Elway just might want Lindsay around which I think he does, he was a great find. The conversation then becomes how much money is he worth ?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Only correct if an UDFA is only offered a contract by a single team. There are a log lot of UDFAs that have multiple teams offer them contracts, including Lindsay.

    Reason to do it: Lindsay is the best feel good story on the Broncos and is probably the most popular Bronco in Denver and is important in the community.

    Reason to do it: Smart business owners understand the concept of Internal Marketing, which is treating employees farily with respect. Not every benefit is tangible or can have a dollar value placed on it.

    Reason to do it: Elway said he would. There's no excuse for not keeping your word.
    Elway said, “I’ve talked to Phillip’s agent and we’ll see what happens and what we can do later on. That’s not a guarantee either way, but we’ll see what we can do later on.”

    There’s a difference between saying you will consider something and promising the Broncos will increase his pay.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post
    Good news regarding Philip Lindsay
    Earlier in the week Dmac reported that Philip Lindsay was dissatisfied with his contract in Denver and the end result may have resulted in a trade.

    According to Brandon Stokely and Mike Klis those rumors are false and I can testify by that I heard Stokely himself on the radio say that Mike McCarthy did in fact call John Elway the moment Melvin Gordon was signed.

    Elway supposedly responded by sayingtrading Philip Lindsay at this time is not whats best for the Denver Broncos at this time!

    So like the meme says, “y’all can rest easy” Philip Lindsay is not going anywhere.
    Link supporting Stokley’s comments about a trade?

    Lindsay’s agent Mike McCartney told Jhabvala that he had a “very good conversation” with Elway and that he hopes “the Broncos will do right by a player who has not only exceeded expectations on the field but embodies everything about the culture they’re trying to build over there.”

    https://sports.yahoo.com/john-elway-...204523182.html

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    We have done this dance already, nothing at all needs to happen with Lindsay. The Broncos pretty much own Lindsay for the foreseeable future, and Linsday has no leverage to play any games to change that. But he wont hold out or create waves anyway, it makes no sense from his side to do it, and anyone worried about it shouldn't be, Lindsay is here as long as the Broncos decide. Here is a brief summary of the other 2 threads this has been discussed:

    Argument 1: You can re-sign undrafted rookies after 2 seasons.

    Response: It's never happened though, and no agent has any reference point what so ever to approach team management to argue their client should be extended. An agent wont even try because they know if demands are not giving into, they have no leverage, what are they going to ?

    Argument 2: Someone will poach Lindsay if we just tender him next off-season.

    Response: No one is giving up a first or second round pick for Lindsay plus a contract. The last running back RFA tendered and signed elsewhere was when Gilislee went from the Bills to the Patriots, and he was tendered at his original round, a late round pick. This doesn't happen.

    Argument 3: The team will revolt, show the locker room you take care of your guys.

    Response: You think players will care that Lindsay isn't getting extended after 2 seasons in the league when they have to wait 4 ? No other player is going to be annoyed that Lindsay has to wait just like them, it's a non-issue.

    Argument 4: Other UDFA players wont come here if we don't take care of Lindsay.

    Response: A guy who just went undrafted is going to jump at any opportunity where an NFL contract and a good roster situation is presented, think about where an undrafted guys head is at right after the draft, he is desperate and has zero leverage.

    Argument 5: Lindsay could just hold out.

    Response: Maybe Lindsay could ask his new running mate Melvin Gordon how that works out ? Maybe Lindsay has noticed that running backs have zero bargaining power in the NFL, and when they hold out into the season, it doesn't work.

    Argument 6: Just do it, take care of him, it's a nice thing to do

    Response: Teams don't care about this, it's a business. I wouldn't mind Phillip getting a small bump in pay, maybe 3 million per season, but it doesn't need to happen, and he doesn't need to be catered to. I love Phillip, but the position he plays, his value isn't that high on an open market, and on a trade market, it's even lower.
    Just to piggy back on your post, he CAN'T do number 5. Under the new CBA a player that misses day 1 of training camp (without permission from the team) loses his year of service time, which means if Lindsay did hold out he would end up as an Exclusive Right Free Agent next year. Which means a third year of league minimum pay.

    For those thinking he could report and then leave, the CBA has a provision for that as well, if a player misses day 1 of camp or misses 5 days of camp (if they report and then leave) the player loses the year of service time automatically.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Only correct if an UDFA is only offered a contract by a single team. There are a log lot of UDFAs that have multiple teams offer them contracts, including Lindsay.

    Reason to do it: Lindsay is the best feel good story on the Broncos and is probably the most popular Bronco in Denver and is important in the community.

    Reason to do it: Smart business owners understand the concept of Internal Marketing, which is treating employees farily with respect. Not every benefit is tangible or can have a dollar value placed on it.

    Reason to do it: Elway said he would. There's no excuse for not keeping your word.
    Those players aren't signing based on what happens with Lindsay, they're signing with teams where they'll get an honest chance to A. Make the roster. B. Get playing time

    The Broncos have a long history of giving UDFA players a chance not only to make the team, but to get good playing time in their first year.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    The only reason to extend him now vs later other than maybe garnering some good standing with other UDFAs coming into the league would be to avoid having to do a new deal when he’s 28. Right now you can give him a 4 year contract and by the end of the contract he’d be 30 which is typically when you want to move on from RBs, plus you could have potential outs in year 3/4 when he’s 28/29 (turning 30). If you wait until he’s 28 (turning 29) you potentially run into the issue of the length of the contract being an issue for him. Of course we could still walk away or let him test the market but would likely have a soft market given his age and while that isn’t necessarily our issue, I’d still like to see us reward him.
    That makes sense if they're completely sold on him. The fact they went out and signed Gordon says they're not completely sold on him. He's a great story, but why pay more if you don't see him being the answer for several years going forward?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    Link supporting Stokley’s comments about a trade?

    Lindsay’s agent Mike McCartney told Jhabvala that he had a “very good conversation” with Elway and that he hopes “the Broncos will do right by a player who has not only exceeded expectations on the field but embodies everything about the culture they’re trying to build over there.”

    https://sports.yahoo.com/john-elway-...204523182.html
    Stokely said it was Mike McCarthy, not lindsays agent. Perhaps it was a mistake but I put it out there exactly the way Stokley put it.

    Yeah I’m really going to find a link for a radio quote. You want it, YOU go find it!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Just to piggy back on your post, he CAN'T do number 5. Under the new CBA a player that misses day 1 of training camp (without permission from the team) loses his year of service time, which means if Lindsay did hold out he would end up as an Exclusive Right Free Agent next year. Which means a third year of league minimum pay.

    For those thinking he could report and then leave, the CBA has a provision for that as well, if a player misses day 1 of camp or misses 5 days of camp (if they report and then leave) the player loses the year of service time automatically.
    Did not know that, thanks for the information. And a little more leverage for the Broncos. The Broncos own Lindsay until they decide otherwise.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Only correct if an UDFA is only offered a contract by a single team. There are a log lot of UDFAs that have multiple teams offer them contracts, including Lindsay.

    Reason to do it: Lindsay is the best feel good story on the Broncos and is probably the most popular Bronco in Denver and is important in the community.

    Reason to do it: Smart business owners understand the concept of Internal Marketing, which is treating employees farily with respect. Not every benefit is tangible or can have a dollar value placed on it.

    Reason to do it: Elway said he would. There's no excuse for not keeping your word.
    This is true, Lindsey is a very important cog in the machine.

  15. #30
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    Lindsay and his fire is huge for this team. Everyone knows it and he always rises to any challenge. He has earned consideration for an extension, won’t happen this year though.

    He is certainly one of my fav’s and definitely a fan favorite all around...let’s update the thread title with his correct spelling...thanks!

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