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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    Thanks for posting. I have also been reading a lot of good stuff on Pittman. I watched some of his highlights. His ability to track the ball is fantastic. Starting to like him more in the second. I think the comparisons to JuJu are not bad
    Thx....and given your comment, and the fact a few other names get thrown around often, this comes back to what we were almost all saying months ago....this is one heck of a WR draft year!!!!

    There are many variables as to 'deep' vs 'not deep' drafts. In this case, anyone in need of a WR wins. There may be demand but there is ample quality supply. BUT even teams who are not in need could prosper, because when they select in round 3 or even 4, there might be a really good WR still there. So, based on the BPA model, that's the time to strike.

    Conversely, although we might have to move up a little to land one of the so called top 3 (if we go WR in 1), I think it unwise for any team to overspend on a receiver this year. By that I mean, do not trade up much, or do not jump at an early round WR if you need a good one, but 2nd tier level. It's like buying a stock when it's near peak. Be patient.

  2. #17
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    I have:

    1. Jeudy
    2. Lamb
    3. Ruggs/Jefferson
    5. Shenualt/Higgins
    6. Raegor/ Mims
    7. Hamler/Aiyuk
    8. Claypool

    I realize that I have a lot of ties. I think Ruggs and Jefferson in the right situation will end up being similar in overall production. They will be used a bit differently but are equally talented with positives and negatives. Every one of the others l think upgrade Hamilton and Patrick.

  3. #18
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    It's near impossible to grade wide receivers based on the broadcast angles, so from a fan perspective it pretty much becomes who has the best statistics, the best YouTube highlights, and who they personally fall in love with . I don't care for drafting a wide reciever high, I wont ever bother watching them or trying to grade them, so I will just wait to see how it falls and be annoyed if and when we take one. I can't get my head around an organisation drafting a pure pass catcher two years in a row, when you have recorded 3 losing seasons in a row. I don't see that as a luxury this roster should be entertaining.

    In saying that, the consensus seems to be we are interested, and it will be one of the top 5 guys if we go that direction at 15. I just hope we don't look at a guy with more potential than substance, because that usually gets general Managers fired, and led to Elway recorded putrid draft after draft for a number of years there. Speed is overrated, less speed and more football skill and feel for playing in open space is the only thing I will say I hope we go for in a wide reciever, there are plenty of fast street free agents out there.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    It's near impossible to grade wide receivers based on the broadcast angles, so from a fan perspective it pretty much becomes who has the best statistics, the best YouTube highlights, and who they personally fall in love with . I don't care for drafting a wide reciever high, I wont ever bother watching them or trying to grade them, so I will just wait to see how it falls and be annoyed if and when we take one. I can't get my head around an organisation drafting a pure pass catcher two years in a row, when you have recorded 3 losing seasons in a row. I don't see that as a luxury this roster should be entertaining.

    In saying that, the consensus seems to be we are interested, and it will be one of the top 5 guys if we go that direction at 15. I just hope we don't look at a guy with more potential than substance, because that usually gets general Managers fired, and led to Elway recorded putrid draft after draft for a number of years there. Speed is overrated, less speed and more football skill and feel for playing in open space is the only thing I will say I hope we go for in a wide reciever, there are plenty of fast street free agents out there.
    Brad Kelly's channel on YouTube has some All-22 cut-ups of the top receivers in this draft, which gives a better look into how they run their routes and try to leverage the cornerback and the defense overall. And to fit your description of a high-football skill, open space "feel" type of receiver, I think CeeDee Lamb fits that bill perfectly. With Jerry Jeudy right behind Lamb and then Justin Jefferson a distant 3rd (in that regard).

    In terms of your evaluation of our personnel and coming off of 3 losing seasons in a row, which areas of the roster have the most pressing needs in your opinion?

    I think the so-called luxury of "drafting a pure pass catcher (first) two years in a row" argument being used as a case against drafting a WR in the 1st round does not capture the big picture of our roster. At the end of the day, each draft class is different from year-to-year. Opportunity cost matters. This is the most talent-rich WR class since 2014. That is the real general consensus in the scouting community and among team insiders, not merely a product of the YouTube highlights hype machine. I'm all for team-building in the trenches and filling up the other holes in our roster (notably at CB and C) of course. But at #15, we have the opportunity to draft a WR that has shown translatable ability to excel in the pros.

    Jerry Jeudy - Every successful NFL receiver needs to be able to run good routes or have a good OC be able to scheme them open. Although route running is a skill that can be taught, the truly great route runners (Jerry Rice, AB) stand head and shoulders above the rest of the receivers in the league. Jeudy has that special gift of having BOTH extremely-quick feet and sheer technical ability to be one of the best route runners in the NFL right away.

    CeeDee Lamb - They key to having longevity in the NFL as a WR lies in the mental. Lamb has the same intangibles that DeAndre Hopkins, Emmanuel Sanders, and Larry Fitzgerald all have. You talk about a receiver having that "dog" in them-- or the mental and physical toughness to make both contested catches and lay the wood while blocking-- Lamb has that. Productivity matters. What stands out to me about Lamb is the fact that he put up numbers in the OU offense with three different QBs, all of whom have different play styles. When one WR can be the reliable target for Baker Mayfield, Kyler Murray, and Jalen Hurts, that tells me more about their tireless work ethic to develop the right timing and chemistry with their QB.

    I admit, Henry Ruggs III is a bit more of a projection than the other two WRs I just mentioned. He has the tools to be a better WR in the NFL than he was at Alabama, IMO. An OC with a vertical offense like Pat Shurmur will tailor to Ruggs' strengths. Ruggs already has two traits that cannot be taught, elite speed and great hands. He is not good at beating press man coverage, just like most "speed" receivers. If Shurmur is smart, he will use Ruggs the same way Andy Reid uses Tyreek Hill-- a lot of motion and exploiting mismatches.
    2014 Adopt-A-Bronco: #43 T.J. WARD & #38 QUINTON CARTER
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  5. #20
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    I'll take any of them BUT RUGGS, speed is overrated! The best receivers of all times are not that fast!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDbroncos02 View Post

    I admit, Henry Ruggs III is a bit more of a projection than the other two WRs I just mentioned. He has the tools to be a better WR in the NFL than he was at Alabama, IMO. An OC with a vertical offense like Pat Shurmur will tailor to Ruggs' strengths. Ruggs already has two traits that cannot be taught, elite speed and great hands. He is not good at beating press man coverage, just like most "speed" receivers. If Shurmur is smart, he will use Ruggs the same way Andy Reid uses Tyreek Hill-- a lot of motion and exploiting mismatches.
    Here's some interesting comments by two of Ruggs' former coaches:

    Listen to Tyrone Rogers, Ruggs’ coach at Robert E. Lee High School in Montgomery, Ala.

    “He plays bigger than what he is,” Rogers told The Post. “When I had him, he was only like 5-11, 6-foot, 165 pounds. … You can’t tell Henry that he’s not 6-4, 220.”

    Listen to Maryland coach Michael Locksley, who was Ruggs’ wide receivers coach and assistant offensive coordinator for Nick Saban at Alabama.

    “He’s got a little of Steve Smith toughness, Hines Ward … to me, that type of mentality,” Locksley told The Post. “Receivers get high ankle sprains, and some of those guys are done for three, four games. He tapes it up and comes back in. He’s gonna play. He loves to play.”

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/dynami...-at-nfl-draft/
    Mentally tough like Smith and Ward, good guy that won't ever cause trouble and runs a 4.27...sounds pretty good to me.
    Last edited by lvbronx; 04-02-2020 at 09:47 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Here's some interesting comments by two of Ruggs' former coaches:



    Mentally tough like Smith and Ward, good guy that won't ever cause trouble and runs a 4.27...sounds pretty good to me.
    Complete overstatement by coaches trying to lift his status. Ruggs struggled mightily with the physicality of the LSU CBs. Not sure how anyone could watch his game and say he plays bigger than he is. Comparing him to Hines Ward and Steve Smith is hilarious. I am still laughing. I have watched almost everyone one of his games and many twice. Did he have an impact? Yes of course. Is he big, physical, good in traffic, good at high pointing the ball, use his body to seal a defender, good with press coverage? No!

    Now that being said, he has better hands than most speed guys and seems willing to block. I think he has great potential but the other poster is correct. The best WRs have never been super fast. If you ask me he is going to have a Will Fuller type impact but I LOVE that he doesnít get injured. Believe me I like that type of impact AND see the value. That would have a real impact on our offense.

    I do get tired of people claiming he is something he is not. Clearly many on this board have Tyreek Hill speed envy and will look for every positive and ignore ALL flags. Reading the stuff on this board you would think he plays with Claypools size, Jeudyís route running, Tyreek Hills speed AND shake, and a cape to help make him invincible. He NEVER drops passes and scores almost every time he touches the ball. But of course, please ignore the fact that he has never had more than 48 catches and hasnít sniffed 1000 yards.

    More importantly, if you want to see Tyreek Hill watch KJ Hamler. He has speed and unreal small space quickness. Ruggs has great long speed but does not have the same quickness. It is probably why he doesnít return punts. Waddle was just quicker.

    Just watch the Alabama games and you can see what we will get. He had 2 years that were nearly identical in a very talented passing offense. His speed influenced the offense but he was very average.

    I believe he could go as the first WR off the board. Most teams jump at speed at WR. Perriman, Ross, Austin are all recent examples and every year we hear how they were all more than just speed. Teams seem to always over draft speed. I expect it to happen this year. And do the research, everyone of those guys had better college careers and had people claiming they were NOT just speed guysó before the draft.

    My money is on Jeudy, Lamb, Jefferson and maybe a couple others having better careers.

    And of course if we draft Ruggs I will hope I am wrong for at least a decade!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Thx....and given your comment, and the fact a few other names get thrown around often, this comes back to what we were almost all saying months ago....this is one heck of a WR draft year!!!!

    There are many variables as to 'deep' vs 'not deep' drafts. In this case, anyone in need of a WR wins. There may be demand but there is ample quality supply. BUT even teams who are not in need could prosper, because when they select in round 3 or even 4, there might be a really good WR still there. So, based on the BPA model, that's the time to strike.

    Conversely, although we might have to move up a little to land one of the so called top 3 (if we go WR in 1), I think it unwise for any team to overspend on a receiver this year. By that I mean, do not trade up much, or do not jump at an early round WR if you need a good one, but 2nd tier level. It's like buying a stock when it's near peak. Be patient.
    I happen to agree with you and have not been shy with my views that I would rather trade down in the first and pickup another second like last year. I would then take the WR that naturally became the BPA in the late first, second, or third rounds.

    I also think it would be silly to reach for other positions of need when there is clearly so much talent at WR. I believe there will be value at WR at some point, relatively early in this draft

  9. #24
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    I've had Jeudy as my WR1 all year long and he is currently #5 overall on my big board. But this week I've really fallen in love with CeeDee Lamb's game and the toughness and competitive fire he brings to the table. I'm leaning towards putting Jeudy and Lamb as 1A and 1B, respectively. And with Ruggs' dazzling Combine performance, who knows what team ahead of us out of NYJ, LV, or SF might pick him ahead of Jeudy/Lamb? At this point in time, I really have no idea about the order in which the Top 3 WRs will be selected.
    2014 Adopt-A-Bronco: #43 T.J. WARD & #38 QUINTON CARTER
    2013 Adopt-A-Bronco: #25 CHRIS HARRIS

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
    I've had Jeudy as my WR1 all year long and he is currently #5 overall on my big board. But this week I've really fallen in love with CeeDee Lamb's game and the toughness and competitive fire he brings to the table. I'm leaning towards putting Jeudy and Lamb as 1A and 1B, respectively. And with Ruggs' dazzling Combine performance, who knows what team ahead of us out of NYJ, LV, or SF might pick him ahead of Jeudy/Lamb? At this point in time, I really have no idea about the order in which the Top 3 WRs will be selected.
    Lamb's route-running, or lack-thereof, doesn't concern you? It's a big reason why Jeudy and Ruggs are 1 and 2 for me. Jeudy and his route running are on a teir of their own, but Ruggs is also above average in that regard himself.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by myoung View Post
    Complete overstatement by coaches trying to lift his status. Ruggs struggled mightily with the physicality of the LSU CBs. Not sure how anyone could watch his game and say he plays bigger than he is. Comparing him to Hines Ward and Steve Smith is hilarious. I am still laughing. I have watched almost everyone one of his games and many twice. Did he have an impact? Yes of course. Is he big, physical, good in traffic, good at high pointing the ball, use his body to seal a defender, good with press coverage? No!

    Now that being said, he has better hands than most speed guys and seems willing to block. I think he has great potential but the other poster is correct. The best WRs have never been super fast. If you ask me he is going to have a Will Fuller type impact but I LOVE that he doesn’t get injured. Believe me I like that type of impact AND see the value. That would have a real impact on our offense.

    I do get tired of people claiming he is something he is not. Clearly many on this board have Tyreek Hill speed envy and will look for every positive and ignore ALL flags. Reading the stuff on this board you would think he plays with Claypools size, Jeudy’s route running, Tyreek Hills speed AND shake, and a cape to help make him invincible. He NEVER drops passes and scores almost every time he touches the ball. But of course, please ignore the fact that he has never had more than 48 catches and hasn’t sniffed 1000 yards.

    More importantly, if you want to see Tyreek Hill watch KJ Hamler. He has speed and unreal small space quickness. Ruggs has great long speed but does not have the same quickness. It is probably why he doesn’t return punts. Waddle was just quicker.

    Just watch the Alabama games and you can see what we will get. He had 2 years that were nearly identical in a very talented passing offense. His speed influenced the offense but he was very average.

    I believe he could go as the first WR off the board. Most teams jump at speed at WR. Perriman, Ross, Austin are all recent examples and every year we hear how they were all more than just speed. Teams seem to always over draft speed. I expect it to happen this year. And do the research, everyone of those guys had better college careers and had people claiming they were NOT just speed guys— before the draft.

    My money is on Jeudy, Lamb, Jefferson and maybe a couple others having better careers.

    And of course if we draft Ruggs I will hope I am wrong for at least a decade!
    Except Ruggs' toughness comments were about him willing to play through injury and not come off the field. Keep laughing.

    However he does high point the ball pretty well and as Allbright (former NFL scout...are you?) said his weakness is blocking out against press, yes that's a weakness however he makes up for it with speed.

    What I find it hilarious is that you compare him to John Ross. There's no comparison except for speed. He's also playing with two other WRs that will be drafted in the first round, so it's likely his production isn't as high.

    The only difference between Ruggs and Hill is that Ruggs only beats people on the field.

  12. #27
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    I love Hamler- he gave us PSU fans a feeling that the game could change in an instant. The way B10 Defenses had to scheme for him was very similar to the way NFL Ds do vs Tyreek Hill......even just moving him around caused panic. I would love to see him in Denver.

    Shenault is another one I really like, and like Hamler his ability to move around would open things up for 1v1 for Fant and Sutton. Shenault feels like the guy we will target....this draft is strange and teams will have to be cautious without full physicals. This should drop him right into our laps and we likely know as much or more about him than any team.

    I am amazed to see these guys rated in the second tier of WRs. Really goes to show how strong the position is this year.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    Lamb's route-running, or lack-thereof, doesn't concern you? It's a big reason why Jeudy and Ruggs are 1 and 2 for me. Jeudy and his route running are on a teir of their own, but Ruggs is also above average in that regard himself.
    Lamb is a better route runner than Ruggs, itís actually pretty underrated. He snaps his routes off well against man coverage and creates enough separation to make the first guy miss. A lot of the critiques come from the amount of zone he sees and as such people are claiming he rounds off his routes, but certain routes against certain zone coverages you have to round off to either create a delay for the hole in the zone to come open or to provide a better throwing lane for your QB. He isnít as polished as Jeudy or Jefferson or some of the other guys but he really doesnít need to be with his ball skills and by extending his hands late for the ball he always creates late separation to make the catch. His ability after the catch shows that he has a very high ceiling to become a very polished nuanced route runner once he gets coaching and more playing time.

    Ruggs doesnít run great routes, his speed creates all the separation he gets. Teams play off him because they canít run with him so he starts out with a large cushion, once he makes his break his speed takes over. LSU showed that they werenít afraid of his speed and played physical press coverage (not soft press) against him and he struggled mightily to create separation because he couldnít beat the press cleanly and then couldnít get enough separation from his routes to get open. 2 of his catches were against off man coverage which he feasts on because no CB can come up fast enough to tackle him and his one big catch was against press coverage but the play broke down as the QB started to scramble creating extra time for him to get away from the CB. Iím sure there will be NFL teams that are too scared of his speed to press him as well and heíll do great against them but Ruggs very much so is a WR you have to scheme open, primarily scheming how to get him a free release whether it be stacked looks, motions, lining him up in the backfield or just off the LoS.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Lamb is a better route runner than Ruggs, itís actually pretty underrated. He snaps his routes off well against man coverage and creates enough separation to make the first guy miss. A lot of the critiques come from the amount of zone he sees and as such people are claiming he rounds off his routes, but certain routes against certain zone coverages you have to round off to either create a delay for the hole in the zone to come open or to provide a better throwing lane for your QB. He isnít as polished as Jeudy or Jefferson or some of the other guys but he really doesnít need to be with his ball skills and by extending his hands late for the ball he always creates late separation to make the catch. His ability after the catch shows that he has a very high ceiling to become a very polished nuanced route runner once he gets coaching and more playing time.

    Ruggs doesnít run great routes, his speed creates all the separation he gets. Teams play off him because they canít run with him so he starts out with a large cushion, once he makes his break his speed takes over. LSU showed that they werenít afraid of his speed and played physical press coverage (not soft press) against him and he struggled mightily to create separation because he couldnít beat the press cleanly and then couldnít get enough separation from his routes to get open. 2 of his catches were against off man coverage which he feasts on because no CB can come up fast enough to tackle him and his one big catch was against press coverage but the play broke down as the QB started to scramble creating extra time for him to get away from the CB. Iím sure there will be NFL teams that are too scared of his speed to press him as well and heíll do great against them but Ruggs very much so is a WR you have to scheme open, primarily scheming how to get him a free release whether it be stacked looks, motions, lining him up in the backfield or just off the LoS.
    I don't feel either ruggs or lamb are polished route runners. Both will have to improve in that area. Which is normal. Most wr out of college need to run better routes in the nfl. That's why you see the 1 to 2 year time for them to grow and hit there potential. I think they both have the skills to be very good route runners if they take the time and effort to do it practice it and perfect it. Which like I said most wr need to do from college to pros. Cause open in the nfl is not open in college. Also every one is bigger faster and has better technique then in college. Either way I think we should have this conversation in a few years and see what they look like. I bet they both end up being studs in this league

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    I don't feel either ruggs or lamb are polished route runners. Both will have to improve in that area. Which is normal. Most wr out of college need to run better routes in the nfl. That's why you see the 1 to 2 year time for them to grow and hit there potential. I think they both have the skills to be very good route runners if they take the time and effort to do it practice it and perfect it. Which like I said most wr need to do from college to pros. Cause open in the nfl is not open in college. Also every one is bigger faster and has better technique then in college. Either way I think we should have this conversation in a few years and see what they look like. I bet they both end up being studs in this league
    That is definitely true. I am pretty positive that if you asked Steve Largent and Jerry Rice how much they learned about route running after getting to the NFL they would tell you they had a lot to learn. Sutton ran a lot of routes better last year. Even if we do take a 1st rd WR it may be difficult for them to produce a lot before week 10, it just takes a while to adjust to this league.

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