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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Would be a bold and out of character move for Elway to take a LB in the first couple rounds. Not seeing it.

    My personal favorite would be Troy Dye with a late 3rd. Maybe the 4th? Undersized but makes plays. would be a great coverage LB in certain coverages for a season as a backup. Hopefully can earn the starting spot as he develops.
    I re-visited Elway's draft patterns and browsed old threads on here... and quite frankly, I don't think Elway values LBs early at all. Elway trading out of #10 last year and passing on Devin Bush told us everything we should have known all along (remember picking Bolles over Reuben Foster in 2017?). Even if LB is considered a need, there will always be value in the mid rounds for a linebacker that Elway likes (or will fit the defensive scheme). I do not see Elway trying to bring in a rookie starting LB in 2020. Todd Davis has always been underrated by BCMB despite being one of the most productive tacklers for DEN for 4 years now and doing all the dirty work in terms of taking on blocks and stopping the run. The argument here is, "Who is going to stop Travis Kelce?" The problem is-- not many players (let alone defenses) in the NFL can. It would be poor coaching if Davis is assigned to do something that does not maximize his strengths, such as covering TEs downfield. And even then, he isn't a total liability in the passing game like everyone makes him out to be. Davis was excellent at containing receiving backs out of the backfield and spying on the QB.

    I think losing Will Parks was one of the biggest losses for our defense (apart from CHJ of course) due to his versatility. He was crucial playing as the nickel back and sometimes lining up in the box. I like Troy Dye as a guy who can cover the seam and take on other coverage responsibilities on passing downs. I also like Akeem Davis-Gaither in that sense as well. Both prospects can rotate in on certain situations and should not be relied on heavily during their rookie years. If we are to add a LB in the draft, I would see that player being brought in to compete with Josey Jewell for defensive snaps. If we want to add a Will Parks-type of safety, I like K'Von Wallace and Antoine Brooks Jr. in the 4th-5th round. Both guys can cover nickel or provide run support/blitzing in the box.
    2014 Adopt-A-Bronco: #43 T.J. WARD & #38 QUINTON CARTER
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  2. #17
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    Elway is not the only voice in the room and Vic does value LBs. Elway may have passed on LB Bush (we have no idea where he was on their board) but that does not mean we don't look at Lbs until later in the draft.

    Besides, rumor was Elway tried to trade up for a 1st round LB (Mosley I think). We all know Elway has his Premium positions QB, LT, #1 WR, #1 CB, and edge pass rushers. I would have never guessed we would draft a TE in round one last year. So we will see, but I do think an elite ILB would be a game changer for our defense.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
    I re-visited Elway's draft patterns and browsed old threads on here... and quite frankly, I don't think Elway values LBs early at all. Elway trading out of #10 last year and passing on Devin Bush told us everything we should have known all along (remember picking Bolles over Reuben Foster in 2017?). Even if LB is considered a need, there will always be value in the mid rounds for a linebacker that Elway likes (or will fit the defensive scheme). I do not see Elway trying to bring in a rookie starting LB in 2020. Todd Davis has always been underrated by BCMB despite being one of the most productive tacklers for DEN for 4 years now and doing all the dirty work in terms of taking on blocks and stopping the run. The argument here is, "Who is going to stop Travis Kelce?" The problem is-- not many players (let alone defenses) in the NFL can. It would be poor coaching if Davis is assigned to do something that does not maximize his strengths, such as covering TEs downfield. And even then, he isn't a total liability in the passing game like everyone makes him out to be. Davis was excellent at containing receiving backs out of the backfield and spying on the QB.

    I think losing Will Parks was one of the biggest losses for our defense (apart from CHJ of course) due to his versatility. He was crucial playing as the nickel back and sometimes lining up in the box. I like Troy Dye as a guy who can cover the seam and take on other coverage responsibilities on passing downs. I also like Akeem Davis-Gaither in that sense as well. Both prospects can rotate in on certain situations and should not be relied on heavily during their rookie years. If we are to add a LB in the draft, I would see that player being brought in to compete with Josey Jewell for defensive snaps. If we want to add a Will Parks-type of safety, I like K'Von Wallace and Antoine Brooks Jr. in the 4th-5th round. Both guys can cover nickel or provide run support/blitzing in the box.
    The best Bronco Backer coverage of TEs I can recall seeing was Al Wilson. They ran Tampa 2 with Mike taking the seam receiver which was most often the Y. He was good at it.

    The best Bronco Safety coverage of a TE I can recall seeing was Josh Barrett covering Tony Gonzalez in Cover 1. Tony didn't catch a pass when Josh was covering him in that game.

    Backers covering Y receivers in man is asking a lot. I get the impression that Vic Fangio likes his Backers to play short zones when the call puts them in coverage. That is a much more suitable way to put Backers in position to adequately cover eligible receivers IMO.

    Like you, I think Denver's Safeties might be a better choice to cover Y receivers than a Backer.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    Elway is not the only voice in the room and Vic does value LBs. Elway may have passed on LB Bush (we have no idea where he was on their board) but that does not mean we don't look at Lbs until later in the draft.

    Besides, rumor was Elway tried to trade up for a 1st round LB (Mosley I think). We all know Elway has his Premium positions QB, LT, #1 WR, #1 CB, and edge pass rushers. I would have never guessed we would draft a TE in round one last year. So we will see, but I do think an elite ILB would be a game changer for our defense.
    Interesting that you mention Fant being a surprise pick last year.

    I have wondered how much of that was influenced by Scangarello and his “ vision” of the offense. Now that he is gone, does Shurmur share that same “vision” of how Fant fits into his offense.

    Part of the instability of the Broncos coaching changes is that concept of coaches having “their guys” and taking a couple years to get them. Players have to wonder about their role every time they change coaches. And Fant is just one player.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Interesting that you mention Fant being a surprise pick last year.

    I have wondered how much of that was influenced by Scangarello and his “ vision” of the offense. Now that he is gone, does Shurmur share that same “vision” of how Fant fits into his offense.

    Part of the instability of the Broncos coaching changes is that concept of coaches having “their guys” and taking a couple years to get them. Players have to wonder about their role every time they change coaches. And Fant is just one player.
    I watched a video of 4 Bronco specific reporters this morning and they said Shurmur loved Fant last year before he was drafted.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I watched a video of 4 Bronco specific reporters this morning and they said Shurmur loved Fant last year before he was drafted.
    That’s encouraging. Thanks for sharing that.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    Elway is not the only voice in the room and Vic does value LBs. Elway may have passed on LB Bush (we have no idea where he was on their board) but that does not mean we don't look at Lbs until later in the draft.

    Besides, rumor was Elway tried to trade up for a 1st round LB (Mosley I think). We all know Elway has his Premium positions QB, LT, #1 WR, #1 CB, and edge pass rushers. I would have never guessed we would draft a TE in round one last year. So we will see, but I do think an elite ILB would be a game changer for our defense.
    I personally think too much gets put on Elway as the only decision maker. I have seen a lot more from Vic this year that previous years about the draft process but multiple times Vic has laid down how all the coaches have various report cards on all players and how every day those coaches opinions are references when making decisions. Vic has also said those report cards will be used when going through the draft process.

    Point is I think Elway works with his coaches and it is probably hard to say Elway does certain things over the years when he has been working with 4 different head coaches and even more different coaches at other levels.

    Another main difference this year if for the first time in a while we do not have to worry about trying to get a QB early in the draft. That will effect any perceived tendencies as well.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    Sleek, playmaking linebacker with chiseled frame and long arms. Murray's game is predicated on speed with an ability to fly around from sideline to sideline rolling up tackles. While his twitchy burst allows him to make more plays than the average linebacker, he will overflow to ball-carriers at times. Recognition of play development and ability to take on blocks are both underdeveloped currently, but a move to weak-side linebacker would put him in position to minimize those concerns and maximize his playmaking talent. Murray has hit-or-miss qualities and is more splashy than consistent, but he's immensely talented with the ability to imprint on games on all three downs.

    Strengths
    Playmaking speed to mark up a stat sheet
    Very decisive and willing to take chances
    Runs and moves like a safety in space
    Fires into gaps and can put offenses behind the chains
    Averaged nearly 15 tackles for loss over last two years
    Can make all the tackles if kept clean
    Weaves and rolls downhill to close the distance on running backs
    Ridiculous range from sideline to sideline
    Instant burst to the ball from a standstill
    Scrape speed to stay square to the line of scrimmage
    Can spy, blitz or rush off the edge on passing downs

    Weaknesses
    Needs to temper urgency with additional patience
    Misdirected out of position multiple times by same play against Kansas State
    Instincts and fit recognition are spotty as inside linebacker
    Desire to make plays clouds judgment on angles
    Must improve strength and hand usage for take-on duties
    Can be erased from gaps by a square block
    Needs to play with better balance and control as open-field tackler
    Hard flows turn to overflows
    Great break down thank you.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Interesting that you mention Fant being a surprise pick last year.

    I have wondered how much of that was influenced by Scangarello and his “ vision” of the offense. Now that he is gone, does Shurmur share that same “vision” of how Fant fits into his offense.

    Part of the instability of the Broncos coaching changes is that concept of coaches having “their guys” and taking a couple years to get them. Players have to wonder about their role every time they change coaches. And Fant is just one player.
    Totally agree about coaching change, we really need to stick with a staff as much as p[possible and when not possible try and keep the same scheme (assuming it is good

    Shurmur comes from Andy Reid coaching tree, so I think seeing Kelce's success should quell any fears about Fant. Engram was well on his wqy to 100 targets under Shurmur in 2018 prior to injury. Both Celek and Ertz were factors under Shurmur in Philly, Ertz with 112 targets in Shurmurs last year there.

    I don't think Fant has anything to worry about, in fact I would not be surprised to see more 2 TE sets than expected this year, many years Shurmur has play called over 140 attempts to TEs in a season. I would expect Fant to see 90 targets this year, very similar to TE Ertz 2nd year under Shurmur.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Interesting that you mention Fant being a surprise pick last year.

    I have wondered how much of that was influenced by Scangarello and his “ vision” of the offense. Now that he is gone, does Shurmur share that same “vision” of how Fant fits into his offense.

    Part of the instability of the Broncos coaching changes is that concept of coaches having “their guys” and taking a couple years to get them. Players have to wonder about their role every time they change coaches. And Fant is just one player.
    When Rich Scangarello came from SF, he had George Kittle. Denver traded back from #10 to #20 and picked Noah Fant who had the best season for rookie TEs. Denver got their QB in the second round and had signed two DBs and a T in free agency. They also added a couple of front seven defenders and a WR.

    Pat Shurmur comes from NYG where he had Evan Engram. He finds himself in a division that has Travis Kelce, Darren Waller and Hunter Henry. Noah Fant has the size and speed to cause defenses problems running routes from Y, Z or H. I would guess that Shurmur's vision includes Fant playing a major role in his O.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    Elway is not the only voice in the room and Vic does value LBs. Elway may have passed on LB Bush (we have no idea where he was on their board) but that does not mean we don't look at Lbs until later in the draft.

    Besides, rumor was Elway tried to trade up for a 1st round LB (Mosley I think). We all know Elway has his Premium positions QB, LT, #1 WR, #1 CB, and edge pass rushers. I would have never guessed we would draft a TE in round one last year. So we will see, but I do think an elite ILB would be a game changer for our defense.
    Fangio definitely values his LBs. He likely had a huge influence on CHI’s top ten selection of Roquan Smith in 2018. I think this upcoming draft will be more telling in terms of seeing Fangio’s influence on personnel decisions. The additions of AJ Bouye and Jurrell Casey gave him some more expensive toys to work with. I don’t know how hard Elway & Co. went after the FA linebackers, but it’s evident that they have some sort of faith in Johnson, Davis, Jewell, and Jones.

    Could we upgrade? Sure. It’s no denying that someone like Queen/Murray would make an immediate impact. I just don’t think LB is a pressing need like CB, WR, C, or OT. I’m also leaning towards the belief that the game-changing “elite ILB” you mention... is already on our roster in AJ Johnson. At the end of the day, I suppose we do not know what goes on in the FO room, how their board is set, and how they value certain personnel. You pointed out those previous rumors and I recall those being legitimate efforts back then by our FO to get the guy they wanted.

  12. #27
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    Right, Alexander Johnson. Gotta love a guy who practices social distancing by working out in the woods bench pressing logs.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Right, Alexander Johnson. Gotta love a guy who practices social distancing by working out in the woods bench pressing logs.
    This has the appearance of a story I want to hear.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    This has the appearance of a story I want to hear.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/B-NyeUZF...=1rjxx8lhd72q0

  15. #30
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    Nice. I should invite him over to split and stack wood for me.

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