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  1. #46
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    The more i think about this OT issue the more I wonder what the plan is. Seems the path they are on is high risk at best. At worst they have no "plan" just throwing things at the dart board and hoping for the best. If this plays out poorly the Broncos will be searching for two starting tackles and potentially the swing tackle too. All in one off-season. Scary thought!

    So much will depend on the contributions from this year. Can James play the season? 8 games? Less? Nothing but uncertainty with him. Not exactly like I trust his desire to get back out there any given week over a long season either.

    Bolles is just as much uncertainty from a mental standpoint. Can he finally trust his technique? Can he avoid the penalties. If he cleans it up it is going to cost the Broncos dearly. Very likely to the chagrin of a lot of fans. Right now he is graded as an average OT but durable and on a cheap contract. The $11m option is an average starting OT salary. Someone mentioned franchise tagging him. Realize the franchise number for this year is $16.8M.

    IF Bolles bombs out the Broncos can likely sustain the problem in free agency. Maybe get lucky with a decent talent on a 3-4 yr deal. But with $13M going to James, another $11M to Glasgow, how much is realistic for another OT? Can they afford another $12-15M? Or go in a completely different direction and start a rookie?

    How Elway work this one out is going to be fascinating to watch. Luckily there seems to be time to work it out unless Bolles trips all over himself or James has another season lingering injury early in the season. Tough decisions coming.

  2. #47
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    It would be informative to know Mike Munchak's evaluation of Calvin Anderson, Quinn Bailey and Jake Rodgers. Without it, we just don't know until we get to see some football players on a football field playing real football.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    It would be informative to know Mike Munchak's evaluation of Calvin Anderson, Quinn Bailey and Jake Rodgers. Without it, we just don't know until we get to see some football players on a football field playing real football.
    Absolutely agree. Just because I am not seeing the logic does not mean it is not there. Munchak, Elway and Co have the insight into the players and overall plan I am sadly not consulted on. lol

    Simply a puzzle that I currently am having a hard time seeing the positive end results. Assuming the plans are there and will be resolved by this summer if not sooner. Until then I am remaining positive the OTs can hold up and help the the team have one hell of a fun season. I am also assuming there will be a season.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Why would he “take a hometown discount”?

    Broncos just set the tone of another negotiation. He plays poorly and it doesn’t matter, just screws up the season. He plays well with a chip on his shoulder he is likely gone in free agency for more then $11m per.
    The problem is the decision has to be made before he completes his 'contract season' So it's a guess; a gamble. Based on Bolles own history, how else could you come the conclusion that Bolles will finally figure it all out? Sure there are a few long shot scenarios but based on history, the right thing to do is NOT pay Bolles as a top 10% player or whatever that amount is.

    Why would he take a hometown discount? What's your definition of discount? If it's pay him what he's worth --- then yes he should take a hometown discount.

    If it's compared to this 11million figure .........then yes he should take a hometown discount.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    Can't say I'm surprised. I think Elway knows that deep down Bolles is not the answer and a poor first round pick.
    Depends on the price. He should not get Elite Money but he's been getting better. He wouldn't be a good OT for a statue like Flacco, but a more mobile QB he it good, at least he was for Lock

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peerless View Post
    Can't say I'm surprised. I think Elway knows that deep down Bolles is not the answer and a poor first round pick.
    If it was up to the fans it would have been Rueben Foster, so it could have been worse.
    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzerpete View Post
    "In all, 34 of his career flags (73.9 percent) have been for holding." Jeff Legwold

    Bolles should feel lucky his fourth year was exercised.
    I don't know how Legwald gets 73.9%, here are his penalties for the last three years: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...B/BollGa00.htm

    If you use this site, he looks even better. https://www.footballdb.com/stats/pen....html?sort=hld
    In the last url link, he has 6 Holding Penalties that puts him in a group of 10 other OTs that 6 or more Holding penalties. If he were to get one less, that would put him in a group of 26 that got 3 or more HP. So, some of you need to be aware that he isn't as bad as he was his first year, he is not elite but he is very, very close to being a really good T. He only had 3 years of football experience in college and 3 in the pros, so at least he is trending

    If you want an objective comparison, I found a player to player comparison tool. In short, they came up with the same score, but not sure all that goes into that score.

    I compared Bolles' 2019 season to Lane Johnson's (RT) 2019 season. I don't know who Lane Johnson is, but I pulled his name off of the top 25 offensive linemen story, so I would say it a decent list of names.

    If you compare Bolles to other LT on that list, he comes out to be very much on par with most of these LT, again, he isn't Elite but good, IMO.

    If you try the tool, put Bolles name on the first text box and put the player's name in the second textbox, a few names may show up and you can select that name from the list, and if you give it another few seconds, it will show another drop-down list representing the player's full range of years, then I picked from 2019 to 2019 for the player's range of years to compare to Bolles' 2019 year.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    The problem is the decision has to be made before he completes his 'contract season' So it's a guess; a gamble. Based on Bolles own history, how else could you come the conclusion that Bolles will finally figure it all out? Sure there are a few long shot scenarios but based on history, the right thing to do is NOT pay Bolles as a top 10% player or whatever that amount is.

    Why would he take a hometown discount? What's your definition of discount? If it's pay him what he's worth --- then yes he should take a hometown discount.

    If it's compared to this 11million figure .........then yes he should take a hometown discount.
    Not sure what your definition of a hometown discount. At this point, the Bronco message is clear to him. "You are most likely gone after the season. It is in your best interest get better so you can get a decent contract".

    Not understanding your "top 10% player" context? The stated $11M would place him around 15-18th highest paid OT depending if you consider OT or just LT.

    The tools HaciendaDad posted are pretty good at checking the penalties and comparing to other players. Bolles has had far too many penalties but if you compare to other tackles he is not far and away higher. Many of the highest paid and graded OTs tend to be within a few penalties away. Same with grading sites. Bolles is not a bottom graded OT. Pretty much middle of the pack last year.

    Not arguing that he has to be better but if Bolles is able to be more of the player he was the second half of the season he will get an increase in salary. Hopefully he plays like an All Pro and helps the Broncos win this season . Unfortunately the other side of that coin is the better he plays the higher his free agent market value will go up. And next season Bolles will hold all the leverage as a free agent.

    Decision has been made. Lets see how the season goes.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Here's praying that Ja'Wuan James is healthy this season, if there is one.
    It is this comment and this as a general theme of the 2020 draft which had me so perplexed.

    If it was more likely than not Bolles was not going to get his 5th year and James has been hurt a fair amount then why put ourselves between such a rock and a hard place?

    Why go into 2020 with a nearly identical lineup of players at the OT spot? (At least thus far). It is almost like the same spot we were in entering the 2017 draft when we drafted Bolles.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Not sure what your definition of a hometown discount. At this point, the Bronco message is clear to him. "You are most likely gone after the season. It is in your best interest get better so you can get a decent contract".

    Not understanding your "top 10% player" context? The stated $11M would place him around 15-18th highest paid OT depending if you consider OT or just LT.

    The tools HaciendaDad posted are pretty good at checking the penalties and comparing to other players. Bolles has had far too many penalties but if you compare to other tackles he is not far and away higher. Many of the highest paid and graded OTs tend to be within a few penalties away. Same with grading sites. Bolles is not a bottom graded OT. Pretty much middle of the pack last year.

    Not arguing that he has to be better but if Bolles is able to be more of the player he was the second half of the season he will get an increase in salary. Hopefully he plays like an All Pro and helps the Broncos win this season . Unfortunately the other side of that coin is the better he plays the higher his free agent market value will go up. And next season Bolles will hold all the leverage as a free agent.

    Decision has been made. Lets see how the season goes.
    It appears Bolles gets a bit of a bad rapp. Evidently his stats do show improvement and average rankings among his peers (outside of penalties) ......

    I don't know the details of salaries and have no desire to track that data down.

    What makes me apprehensive about Bolles is a product of the 'eye test'. Bolles mistakes happen at inopportune times. Some people call that choking. Bronco fans are used to having very good players on the OL. Bolles doesn't measure up imho. I wouldn't be against Bolles negotiating a contract with Denver after this season. Just not at the 5th year price.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHSalute View Post
    If it was up to the fans it would have been Rueben Foster, so it could have been worse.
    Actually, if it was up to the fans, I believe it would have been Ryan Ramczyk, and that would have been a whole lot better imo.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    The more i think about this OT issue the more I wonder what the plan is. Seems the path they are on is high risk at best. At worst they have no "plan" just throwing things at the dart board and hoping for the best. If this plays out poorly the Broncos will be searching for two starting tackles and potentially the swing tackle too. All in one off-season. Scary thought!

    So much will depend on the contributions from this year. Can James play the season? 8 games? Less? Nothing but uncertainty with him. Not exactly like I trust his desire to get back out there any given week over a long season either.

    Bolles is just as much uncertainty from a mental standpoint. Can he finally trust his technique? Can he avoid the penalties. If he cleans it up it is going to cost the Broncos dearly. Very likely to the chagrin of a lot of fans. Right now he is graded as an average OT but durable and on a cheap contract. The $11m option is an average starting OT salary. Someone mentioned franchise tagging him. Realize the franchise number for this year is $16.8M.

    IF Bolles bombs out the Broncos can likely sustain the problem in free agency. Maybe get lucky with a decent talent on a 3-4 yr deal. But with $13M going to James, another $11M to Glasgow, how much is realistic for another OT? Can they afford another $12-15M? Or go in a completely different direction and start a rookie?

    How Elway work this one out is going to be fascinating to watch. Luckily there seems to be time to work it out unless Bolles trips all over himself or James has another season lingering injury early in the season. Tough decisions coming.
    If James has a similar year this year I suspect we will choose to save $8,000,000 and let him go. It will cost us $6,000,000 in dead cap which is not ideal, but we can use the $8,000,000 towards helping with the Tackle issues.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  13. #58
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    I have to believe the decision not to pick up the 5th year is based on film review, not stats solely. Being in a contract year may motivate Bolles to apply more of what the coaches are teaching him.

    That said, it sure seems like a higher chance OT is the Achilles heel of this season than Bolles and James both staying healthy and playing well. That would put us in a bad spot next offseason. I know people are excited about Jeudy, but I think we could have got a WR and OT out of that pick. Or packaged some later picks to get Jones or Cleveland to develop for a year. Hope it doesn’t bite us.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by haciendadad View Post
    I don't know how Legwald gets 73.9%, here are his penalties for the last three years: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...B/BollGa00.htm

    If you use this site, he looks even better. https://www.footballdb.com/stats/pen....html?sort=hld
    In the last url link, he has 6 Holding Penalties that puts him in a group of 10 other OTs that 6 or more Holding penalties. If he were to get one less, that would put him in a group of 26 that got 3 or more HP. So, some of you need to be aware that he isn't as bad as he was his first year, he is not elite but he is very, very close to being a really good T. He only had 3 years of football experience in college and 3 in the pros, so at least he is trending

    If you want an objective comparison, I found a player to player comparison tool. In short, they came up with the same score, but not sure all that goes into that score.

    I compared Bolles' 2019 season to Lane Johnson's (RT) 2019 season. I don't know who Lane Johnson is, but I pulled his name off of the top 25 offensive linemen story, so I would say it a decent list of names.

    If you compare Bolles to other LT on that list, he comes out to be very much on par with most of these LT, again, he isn't Elite but good, IMO.

    If you try the tool, put Bolles name on the first text box and put the player's name in the second textbox, a few names may show up and you can select that name from the list, and if you give it another few seconds, it will show another drop-down list representing the player's full range of years, then I picked from 2019 to 2019 for the player's range of years to compare to Bolles' 2019 year.
    He may have only had 6 holding penalties accepted, but he was flagged for twice as many.. The others were declined.

    https://www.9news.com/article/sports...9-b217a41d69b1

    He got 4 in the Bears game alone.
    Last edited by FL BRONCO; 05-03-2020 at 08:33 AM.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  15. #60
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    I revisited the 2017 draft thread and there were multiple posts about Bolles holding penalties in college. Interesting weíre here talking about holding penalties going into Bolles 4th season. Splitting hairs about his holding penalties isnít going to change the fact that he had an issue holding in college and still does. Itís time for Bolles to perform consistently over a season. Not a few games at the end of a season - that isnít good enough. IMO, Elway put the marker down - Bolles either fixes his issues or he can move on. Thatís not to say he needs to be perfect, but he needs to be much better.

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