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  1. #76
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    Not arguing your points at all. This Bolles/ OT issue is filled with contradictory statements and actions ( or lack of action).

    Do agree with the above statement of “ we’ll see”. Because at the moment I have no clue what the overall plan is supposed to be.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Yet despite all that frustration he has started the last 48 games at LT and remains the assumed starter next season as of today.

    Despite the frustration the Broncos signed a RT last offseason, did not draft an OT and as of today have not signed another OT to replace him or even challenge him.

    That leads me to believe they believe in some type of grading system that rates him higher them most fan criticisms. IMO actions speak louder then words over the past couple years.

    To be clear, Bolles is frustrating and has not met the high expectations placed on him. I absolutely agree he has to play better then he has. If he can’t he should be gone but for who?

    But fans want to discuss his four penalties against the Bears but rarely bring up his week 16 performance against the Lions where he was the highest rated OT in the league.

    I have no clue how Bolles survives this frustration most of us feel. And I include Elway and the coaches too. Bolles is a huge question mark but so is James and Wilkinson. Most of the OTs I’ve seen mentioned as possible FAs this season or next tend to have issues too Penalties, sacks, injury prone, age , cost ???

    When a viable alternative and upgrade is presented I’ll get on board but at the moment I’m not hearing about an upgrade. I’ll rely on continued improvement and him finally getting his head out of his posterior until a better option presents itself.

    JMO
    I think the grading system we are not seeing as fans is the coaches system. The coaches go through lots of film of many OL...not just the guys on our team.

    From what I have seen several people say Bolles has very correctable issues. The thing is can Bolles correct those issues?

    My opinion is that there has been years of frustration from fans on the OL...going back to 2015 as a unit and even before that on particular players. I think years of frustration is being laid on Bolles shoulders. Still even though there are many reasons for the Broncos to pick up Bolles 5th year option the Broncos decided not to. That speaks a lot for how frustrated the team is with him at this point.
    A good plan put into motion today is better than the ideal plan that is always coming sometime in the future.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    But fans want to discuss his four penalties against the Bears but rarely bring up his week 16 performance against the Lions where he was the highest rated OT in the league.
    I'll bite. You mention grading systems rating Bolles higher than fan perception, well these are often argued and with good reason. The endless examples of players who were graded highly as top players in the league, yet went on to be cut, signed to minimal extensions, and pretty much not have NFL evaluators back up their grades is endless. Two I argued just a few weeks ago were Evan Mathis and Richie Incognito after the 2015 season. Mathis in particular was graded as a top guard in the league, with a similar and even in some cases a higher grade then most All-Pros at the position have gotten for the last 10 years, but he wasn't even offered a contract here and got a 1 year 4 million dollar deal in free agency.

    I'll also take a look at that Detroit game which I went back and again looked at just last week focusing solely on Bolles, and he did play well. But this is what I wrote in another thread which no one seemed to comment on or reply to when defending Bolles.

    Now the Detroit game. I don't say such positive about Bolles, but in stretches you see the reasons why he was a first round pick, but then he just has brain snaps. In the Detroit game I specifically remember it because it exemplifies what I don't like about Bolles. For the most part he holds up in protection, and plays a lot of good snaps. When he has his legs underneath him and plays within his frame, he is solid. He can move through traffic in the run game and uses his body well to create lanes, he is athletic for a big man.

    But then there are plays where he just stands there on a screen to his side not touching anyone not looking for work. There is a play where he gets beat and just wraps both arms around the guy and luckily gets away with a hold. There a play where he gets driven back into the quarterbacks face, but only because he gives the edge man about a 4 yard cushion and pretty much setup in Locks face before contact. On 4th down the ease at which someone beats him across his face leads to the read option play getting blown up. He did also have a silly hold where he got beat at the start of the game and another play where he came off the snap late as well on a 3rd down to ruin the down.
    I see why he was graded well, but even these grading systems can't account for everything like the multiple frustrating moments he even had in that game. I also love Pro Football Focus for some of their detailed statistics they keep, like cornerback targets, completions, etc. But the grading systems are subjective, don't cover every base, and even using them as a guide is silly as the NFL has told us that they don't really believe what they say based on the way transactions shape up.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I know people can have negative things to say about those six but that group with Munchak is imo the best OL we have had in 5 years.

    I read the Muti played a couple games at LT in college.

    Do you think Risner or Muti is better suited to play OT?

    edit - just read your comments in the Muti thread. I think I get a understanding for your opinion here.
    Right. Muti's range seems limited, but defenders will know when they are within his range. He probably doesn't hold much because he's too busy throwing guys on the ground. He may have had some snaps at T, but he spent most of his time at LG.

    "Route 66" Risner, on the other hand, was first team All Big 12 RT his last three years at K-State. Dalton has more length and more experience at T than Muti.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  5. #80
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    Great article by Jeff Essary at MHR:

    Film Study: Did Garett Bolles improve in 2019?

    Digging into the tape to see if Broncos tackle, Garett Bolles was able to make any positive strides throughout the season.
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.M. View Post
    Great article by Jeff Essary at MHR:

    Film Study: Did Garett Bolles improve in 2019?

    Digging into the tape to see if Broncos tackle, Garett Bolles was able to make any positive strides throughout the season.
    This is interesting and a convincing assessment of why Bolles struggles and that he didn't magically improve over the last 5 games. Makes me believe the Broncos made a good decision on the 5th year and hope that putting Bolles on notice will get him to change and consistently apply what the coaches are telling him. If he finally does, he has the athleticism to be a decent T. But it's discouraging that he's still hampered by the same technique flaws he's had since college, despite what I'm sure has been extensive coaching. The recent statements about an open competition with Eli speak volumes, because Eli is clearly not Bolles equal in athleticism. But his consistency and coachability may win out.

  7. #82
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    Too early to talk Ring of Fame?



    Sorry, couldn't help it

  8. #83
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    Another good assessment from Joe Rowles at MHR:

    GIF Horse: Can you win with Garett Bolles?
    Will Denver Broncos left tackle Garett Bolles improve in year four?
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  9. #84
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    A lot of people bring up that Elway was smart to not pick up Bolles' 5th year option thinking that it is just an automatic no way he'll be playing here next year. Even if Bolles plays well this year, even if he plays fantastics he doesn't have enough cache to have the Broncos believe that he has not turned into an elite LT and should be paid as one. Elway's decision was a no-lose decision, even if Bolles balls! If they believe enough in him to not get a LT in the offseason, they are probably going to keep him for next year but he'll be competing with another LT for the starting role.

    Honestly, Bolles has to know that he can 3-4x his salary if he can just reduce his holding calls by a few to be in the middle of the pack and get paid middle of the pack money. That should be very achievable, especially if he'll have someone (Elijah Wilkinson) else competing for his position this year.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    Too early to talk Ring of Fame?



    Sorry, couldn't help it
    Post of the thread so far.
    My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter

  11. #86
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    Here is a counter to the above article from MHR. The decision was not an easy one because Boles does not make it easy. He shows potential but has not lived up to the expectations of a 1st rd pick. Tough call. . The reality is that Bolles is not as bad as some want to make him out to be. Just depends on your pov with him as to how critical you can be.

    Two things I found interesting from the article. Author points out multiple examples of comparing Bolles to his peers, both on the roster and league wide. Pointing out other olineman also make mistakes, Bolles included. And in the conclusion makes the point that if Bolles cuts down on those mistakes even a little bit he may be looking at a free agent contract in the Humphreys range of 3yr/$44M. IMO that fifth year $11M doesn't sound so bad. Plus it gives Elway another year to negotiate a deal. Risk either way, going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

    https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/...misconceptions
    Last edited by FR Tim; 05-10-2020 at 08:17 AM.

  12. #87
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    MHR article:

    PFF named Garett Bolles the Broncos most underrated player

    Despite what the film says, Pro Football Focus is unrelenting in their support for Garett Bolles.
    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

  13. #88
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    Hard to take an article serious when it is comparing rookies drafted weeks ago as being "most underrated player on the Broncos roster in 2020"

    It seems to me the author of the article has a lot in common to the people who are unrelenting in their criticism for Garett Bolles

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastic View Post
    Too early to talk Ring of Fame?



    Sorry, couldn't help it
    He can help "hold" up the nameplate...
    http://s7.postimg.org/hjr8fcmaz/EM2.jpg

    Adopted Bronco: Andy Janovich

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    I'll bite. You mention grading systems rating Bolles higher than fan perception, well these are often argued and with good reason. The endless examples of players who were graded highly as top players in the league, yet went on to be cut, signed to minimal extensions, and pretty much not have NFL evaluators back up their grades is endless. Two I argued just a few weeks ago were Evan Mathis and Richie Incognito after the 2015 season. Mathis in particular was graded as a top guard in the league, with a similar and even in some cases a higher grade then most All-Pros at the position have gotten for the last 10 years, but he wasn't even offered a contract here and got a 1 year 4 million dollar deal in free agency.

    I'll also take a look at that Detroit game which I went back and again looked at just last week focusing solely on Bolles, and he did play well. But this is what I wrote in another thread which no one seemed to comment on or reply to when defending Bolles.



    I see why he was graded well, but even these grading systems can't account for everything like the multiple frustrating moments he even had in that game. I also love Pro Football Focus for some of their detailed statistics they keep, like cornerback targets, completions, etc. But the grading systems are subjective, don't cover every base, and even using them as a guide is silly as the NFL has told us that they don't really believe what they say based on the way transactions shape up.
    Evan Mathis was a part-time player in 2015 for the Broncos, starting 12 games and playing 73% of the offensive snaps. And as 34 year old (turning 35 during the 2016 season) who had played 51% of the offensive snaps in 2014 and 73% in 2015, the law of diminishing returns dictated that he wasn't worth a big contract, and since he played just 4 more NFL games in his career, that was correct.

    However, in 2015 for Denver he played on a 1 year $2.5 million contract, and didn't get signed until August 25th, which was over 2 months after he was released by Philadelphia. Coming off the season you talk about he signed a 1 year contract worth $6 million and was signed on March 16, which was 1 week after free agency opened.

    So his value did go up based on 2015.

    Richie Incognito is a difficult example for several reasons: 1. In 2013 his treatment of his teammate, Jonathan Martin, blew up and he was suspended on November 3rd for the rest of the season. 2. He was out of the NFL for the entire 2014 season. 3. After playing well for Buffalo in 2015 he was rewarded with a 3 year contract, worth $5.25 million per season. 4. During his contract he was accused by an opponent of using racial slurs, he then decided to retire, told Buffalo they had until April 15th to give him a contract that was valuable enough to not retire, then was officially retired, told the team he changed his mind and would be at OTA's, and then didn't show up for those OTA's.

    So of your two examples, you have a player who was injury prone and at the end of his career and who did see his value more than double. And you also have a guy who was a complete nightmare off the field (don't forget him threatening people at a funeral home) and did his best to sabotage his own value.

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