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Thread: McJayGate

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    Yes who would think that the QB that beat the other 41-7 and led an 11 win team, could possibly be better than a QB with a strong arm and and a loosing record. Who would think that it had an impact that our QB could not string wins together? As much arm talent as Jay had he could not win three in a row which is the minimum standard for winning a SB, and that against elite competition.

    Why is it that it does not seem to be the strong armed QBs that win the SB? Isn't Elway the last "strong armed QB" to win the SB?
    Ok, Matt Cassell didn't "lead" the Pats anywhere. They were basically the same team from the prior year where they went 18-1, aside from Tom Brady. Great coaching staff, great defense, good offensive line, and weapons everywhere. BTW, Cassell didn't "beat" Cutler, the Pats beat the Broncos because they were a much better team in 2008.

    Have you forgotten how bad the 2008 Broncos defense was? It was quite possibly the worst in franchise history. Without Cutler and the offense, there's no way that we win 8 games that season. All McDaniels had to do was leave the offense in place and work on the defense, but no, he had to have his "guy" at QB. This is a family forum so I'm not going to say what I really want to say about McD on here.

    Also, you don't think players like Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Flacco, and Mahomes had strong arms?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    Broncos has never ever even insinuated that they promised Cutler any say in personnel matters - be it Jeremy Bates or others. That is only a claim that has come from Cutler.
    I clearly stated that it was Jay's interpretation of whatever meeting he had with Bowlen after the firing of Shanahan that the offensive personnel and specifically Jeremy Bates would remain intact.

    Mike Kliss did not break the story about McDaniels interest in Cassel, and there was absolutely nothing that Broncos (incl McDaniels) did before the meeting that made Cutler demand a trade, that ever indicated that Broncos were interested in trading Jay Cutler. It was the Boston Globe that broke the story of McDaniels inquiring about Cassel, and it was NOT the Broncos that had the Cassel for Cutler trade, but the Lions and two others.
    I didn't say he broke it. I said he reported it. He was the one, however, who first told Cutler.

    And again, Mike Kliss reported that Jay had a meeting with Joe Ellis where Jay blew up about the firing of Jeremy Bates. This was confirmed by Peter King and others. Again, some reports indicate that Jay asked for a trade during this meeting, but Jay denies it.



    As for the Bowlen angle - Peter King says here that Bowlen had never in his time as an owner felt as disrespected as he did by Cutler - https://www.si.com/more-sports/2009/04/06/trade.

    As for what Cutler said he did, or wanted, we all know that he lied big time when explaining that he never wanted the trade that he had demanded.
    I don't doubt Bowlen felt disrespected. I'm not defending Jay or Josh in any of this, as I feel both showed great emotional immaturity during the ordeal, although I would argue that Josh had a more mature role and should have been the grown up in the situation.
    Last edited by mojo0730; 05-14-2020 at 08:12 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncosojia View Post
    Ok, Matt Cassell didn't "lead" the Pats anywhere. They were basically the same team from the prior year where they went 18-1, aside from Tom Brady. Great coaching staff, great defense, good offensive line, and weapons everywhere. BTW, Cassell didn't "beat" Cutler, the Pats beat the Broncos because they were a much better team in 2008.

    Have you forgotten how bad the 2008 Broncos defense was? It was quite possibly the worst in franchise history. Without Cutler and the offense, there's no way that we win 8 games that season. All McDaniels had to do was leave the offense in place and work on the defense, but no, he had to have his "guy" at QB. This is a family forum so I'm not going to say what I really want to say about McD on here.

    Also, you don't think players like Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Flacco, and Mahomes had strong arms?
    The QB is hands down the most important player for the outcome of a football game, so Cassel deserves credit! As with every other game we lost in 2008, it was Cutler that beat Cutler. In losses of 2008 the offense scored 15 points less per game than in wins, and your post totally neglects that defenses feed off an expectation that it actually matters. As Broncos fans we have seen this highlighted multiple times - when Cutler replaced Plummer our defense suddenly stopped working. The 2006 defense was top ranked until Cutler took over and then it got progressively worse during his tenure. We saw the impact again when Orton came in and there was hope for a while where the defense played lights out, and then faded whe offense did not keep up, and we saw it even better with Tebow where hope and team work returned, and we saw it with the physical skills of Manning where defense still believed that if they kept it close we would win. Just look at the tape of the Broncos with Cutler and with Tebow for comparison, and look at how Champ Bailey reacted on the sideline in games - that is and was the difference in team spirit.

    Our 2007 and 2008 defenses did not have the luxary to assume that interception Jay would not turn up. Our 2008 offense was one of the least effective offenses i NFL history producing the same amount of yards as the 2007 Patriots and scoring 269 points less.

    It was a blessing that we got rid of Cutler. He is so incredibly overrated by many here, and the praise for a QB that has 3 winning seasons out of 12 (same as Jeff George) is just bizarre.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I don't doubt Bowlen felt disrespected. I'm not defending Jay or Josh in any of this, as I feel both showed great emotional immaturity during the ordeal, although I would argue that Josh had a more mature role and should have been the grown up in the situation.
    I think Peter King says it very well:
    McDaniels could have sweet-talked Cutler a little more than he did. As one of the GMs involved in talking to the Broncos told me Saturday: "This should never have happened. This is bad for football. A great player talked his way off a team. If this trade doesn't work out for Denver, and Cutler plays great, which he should, Denver's going to look idiotic.''

    Having said that, Cutler owns a degree of culpability that I believe is greater than the team's. As I wrote Thursday night, he has himself to blame for this trade because he couldn't accept that the team fired the two coaches -- Mike Shanahan and Jeremy Bates -- most responsible for the very good offense the Broncos had in 2008 and then couldn't accept that McDaniels wouldn't assure him he'd never be traded.

    Should McDaniels have lied about that? Maybe. But the Broncos once tried to trade John Elway to Washington, and Elway had to come back to the team knowing Dan Reeves wanted to deal him. They were never best friends, but Elway didn't go on strike like Cutler did. Cutler was poked and prodded, but spare me the violins about how the Broncos treated him terribly. I don't buy it. He got treated like an employee, which he is.
    This thing was about Cutler - not McDaniels, the Broncos or looking at options. We have people talking about trading Von Miller.
    Had Cutler and McDaniels worked together it might have been better for both, but the history shows that Adam Gase is the only coach that has worked with Cutler that got a better job offer. Every other OC and HC has not survived coaching Cutler.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    I think Peter King says it very well:


    This thing was about Cutler - not McDaniels, the Broncos or looking at options. We have people talking about trading Von Miller.
    Had Cutler and McDaniels worked together it might have been better for both, but the history shows that Adam Gase is the only coach that has worked with Cutler that got a better job offer. Every other OC and HC has not survived coaching Cutler.
    Again, I'm not defending either Josh or Jay. I feel both showed their true colors during the entire situation and in the long run neither came out a winner.

    However, this wasn't JUST about Jay. I don't think that's fair. There have been plenty of Broncos players here during that time who have spoken unfavorably about McDaniels, including Brandon Stokley, DJ Williams, and Tyler Polumbus, among others, in terms of how he dealt with players and coaches, and his overall immaturity. There have also been plenty of those in the media who have echoed those players' sentiments. And as far as the specific situation with Cutler, I stand by my opinion that as a head coach and a person in a position of high authority it was under McDaniels to show greater maturity and leadership than he did. And while I'd like to think he learned from his experience with the Broncos and became a better person for it, what happened with the Colts a couple of years ago kind of indicates that's not the case. The fact that in the 10 years since he was fired in Denver he's only had one real opportunity to become a head coach again and wound up burning that bridge as quickly as it was built also shows to me what his reputation is like around the NFL.
    Last edited by mojo0730; 05-15-2020 at 06:42 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    The QB is hands down the most important player for the outcome of a football game, so Cassel deserves credit! As with every other game we lost in 2008, it was Cutler that beat Cutler. In losses of 2008 the offense scored 15 points less per game than in wins, and your post totally neglects that defenses feed off an expectation that it actually matters. As Broncos fans we have seen this highlighted multiple times - when Cutler replaced Plummer our defense suddenly stopped working. The 2006 defense was top ranked until Cutler took over and then it got progressively worse during his tenure. We saw the impact again when Orton came in and there was hope for a while where the defense played lights out, and then faded whe offense did not keep up, and we saw it even better with Tebow where hope and team work returned, and we saw it with the physical skills of Manning where defense still believed that if they kept it close we would win. Just look at the tape of the Broncos with Cutler and with Tebow for comparison, and look at how Champ Bailey reacted on the sideline in games - that is and was the difference in team spirit.

    Our 2007 and 2008 defenses did not have the luxary to assume that interception Jay would not turn up. Our 2008 offense was one of the least effective offenses i NFL history producing the same amount of yards as the 2007 Patriots and scoring 269 points less.

    It was a blessing that we got rid of Cutler. He is so incredibly overrated by many here, and the praise for a QB that has 3 winning seasons out of 12 (same as Jeff George) is just bizarre.
    The defense faded when Cutler took over because they lost their heart and soul in Al Wilson. I do agree that defenses will rally behind a QB and play better but I donít think that was the case with Jay, especially at that time. That defense had actually been bad and declining long before then but Al Wilson covered up a lot of holes especially in run defense.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    Again, I'm not defending either Josh or Jay. I feel both showed their true colors during the entire situation and in the long run neither came out a winner.

    However, this wasn't JUST about Jay. I don't think that's fair. There have been plenty of Broncos players here during that time who have spoken unfavorably about McDaniels, including Brandon Stokley, DJ Williams, and Tyler Polumbus, among others, in terms of how he dealt with players and coaches, and his overall immaturity. There have also been plenty of those in the media who have echoed those players' sentiments. And as far as the specific situation with Cutler, I stand by my opinion that as a head coach and a person in a position of high authority it was under McDaniels to show greater maturity and leadership than he did. And while I'd like to think he learned from his experience with the Broncos and became a better person for it, what happened with the Colts a couple of years ago kind of indicates that's not the case. The fact that in the 10 years since he was fired in Denver he's only had one real opportunity to become a head coach again and wound up burning that bridge as quickly as it was built also shows to me what his reputation is like around the NFL.
    The conflicts in 2010 had very little to do with the Cutler situation, and had everything to do with sloppy football. I don't remember seing so many "pretty" losses as during the last half of McDaniels tenure - good play, but always coming up short. The conflicts with players he coached, had contract disputes with (Bailey), chewed out for getting yet another DUI (DJ) ... are differerent in nature than the Cutler situation. It was idiotic that Josh supposedly was given the same level of reponsibility that Shanahan had, and he was clearly in over his head at times.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    The defense faded when Cutler took over because they lost their heart and soul in Al Wilson. I do agree that defenses will rally behind a QB and play better but I don’t think that was the case with Jay, especially at that time. That defense had actually been bad and declining long before then but Al Wilson covered up a lot of holes especially in run defense.
    Al had missed a lot of games with Plummer starting, but it did not seem to impact win rates, whereas the team did not win when Al was there and Plummer was injured.

    It is strange that is should have such a great impact when Cutler was the QB.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    Al had missed a lot of games with Plummer starting, but it did not seem to impact win rates, whereas the team did not win when Al was there and Plummer was injured.

    It is strange that is should have such a great impact when Cutler was the QB.
    No he didnít, Al missed 3 games his entire career. He was hospitalized during the Seattle game when Cutler took over. He was cleared to play the following week but it was clear he wasnít the same which resulted in his release that offseason and eventual retirement.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo0730 View Post
    https://1043thefan.com/category/podc...Clough+Podcast

    Interesting historical dive into the whole drama-filled fiasco that was "McJayGate". It talks about the firing of Mike Shanahan and then what led to Jay Cutler ultimately demanding a trade from the Broncos, and the key parties' roles in everything.
    Interesting to read through the posts. May do the podcast on a commute drive.

    IMO hiring McD and the things that followed were some of the worst decisions in Bronco franchise history. I think some people had the right idea in taking away power from the Head Coach of the team but the execution of the plan was HORRIBLE.

    Luckily Elway was hired we got some real good decisions in the building finally and some Mile High Magic later we got some good times to help forget the 2009-2010 seasons which were DARK. I get how much some did not like Cutler and/or Shanahan but what went down after Shanahan was gone was some of the worst things I have seen a team go through sports wise.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    Jake vs Jay, Jay vs Cassel, Jay vs Orton, Orton vs Tebow, Tebow vs Orton/Quinn\



    ....crazy time
    It's crazy to think that a team that has had two quarterbacks retire as the winningest of all time in the last 22 years, has had that many incredibly mediocre quarterbacks in that stretch of time... (not calling Plummer mediocre here either btw)
    *** God Bless Our Military Men And Women***

    Adopted Bronco 2015 CJ Anderson

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    McNuggets messed up.

    Jay probably could have succeeded in Denver.
    Thatís where I come down too. Young, Pro Bowl QBs are permitted to be prima donnas to at least some extent. Think of the leeway given to high performers in any other line of work. Just a shame Cutler (for his sake) authored his exit from a traditionally QB-focused org (DEN) to one (CHI) that hasnít properly protected and developed a QB since Sid Luckman. Thankfully, it still worked out for us once we purged ourselves of boy wonder...

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Bronco View Post
    That’s where I come down too. Young, Pro Bowl QBs are permitted to be prima donnas to at least some extent. Think of the leeway given to high performers in any other line of work. Just a shame Cutler (for his sake) authored his exit from a traditionally QB-focused org (DEN) to one (CHI) that hasn’t properly protected and developed a QB since Sid Luckman. Thankfully, it still worked out for us once we purged ourselves of boy wonder...
    I think that Cutler produced a history that was scary - 62% win rate in Plummers worst season before giving the reigns to Cutler an his 40% win rate, improving to 45% and 50%. DC was fired over the 2006 results, and Shanahan over the 2007-08 results. Then thankfully McJay gate got rid of him and this is a funny report of his Bears time:
    Timeline: Looking back on Jay Cutler's eight seasons with the Bears
    By John Mullin March 09, 2017 1:25 PM
    Jay Cutler’s time with the Bears has come to an end. Check out an overview of Cutler's eight seasons in Chicago:

    2009
    Apr. 2: Bears trade Kyle Orton, 2009 first-and-third round selections, and 2010 first-rounder to the Denver Broncos for Cutler and a 2009 fifth-round pick.

    Oct. 20: Five games into his first Bears season, Cutler is given a two-year, $30 million extension. Bears lose seven of next nine games on the way to 7-9 finish in Cutler’s only 16-game Bears season. Cutler leads NFL with 26 INT’s. Bears fire offensive coordinator Ron Turner.

    2010
    - Bears finish 11-5, including 10-5 in Cutler starts with Mike Martz as offensive coordinator.

    2011
    Jan. 16: Bears defeat the Seattle Seahawks for Cutler’s only career playoff win.

    Jan. 23: Cutler injures knee, misses second half in loss to the Green Bay Packers in NFC Championship game.

    Nov. 20: Cutler breaks right thumb attempting a tackle vs. the San Diego Chargers. Bears 7-3 with Cutler, fall to 8-8 under Caleb Hanie. Martz fired.

    2012
    - Phil Emery replaces Jerry Angelo as GM.

    - Mike Tice installed as offensive coordinator, clashes with Cutler during 10-6 season. Lovie Smith fired along with Tice and staff.

    2013
    - Marc Trestman replaces Smith, Aaron Kromer hired as offensive coordinator, Bears open 4-2 with Cutler passer-rating of 90-plus in five of six games.

    [RELATED: Jay Cutler left his mark in the Bears record books]

    Oct. 20: Cutler injures groin against the Washington Redskins, misses four games, Josh McCown excels. Cutler eventually returns to start over coaches’ preference for McCown.

    2014
    Jan. 2: Bears eschew franchise tag, sign Cutler for $126.7 million over seven years, $54 million guaranteed first three years.

    Oct. 14: Emery calls Cutler “elite” by virtue of having a winning record as NFL starter.

    Dec. 4: Bears crushed by the Dallas Cowboys. Kromer vents coaches’ frustration with Cutler to NFL reporter, later apologizes to Cutler and team.

    Dec. 21: Cutler benched, Jimmy Clausen starts, suffers concussion vs. Detroit. Cutler reinstalled as starter.

    Dec. 29: Emery fired along with Trestman and staff.

    2015
    - Ryan Pace hired as general manager, John Fox as head coach, Adam Gase as offensive coordinator. Cutler not endorsed as starter.

    - Cutler posts career-best 92.3 passer rating.

    2016
    - Gase leaves to be the Miami Dilphins head coach, replaced by Dowell Loggains.

    Sept. 19: Cutler injures thumb, replaced for five games by Brian Hoyer.

    Oct. 31: Cutler returns for three games, injures shoulder Nov. 20 vs. New York Giants. Out for season.

    2017
    Mar. 9: Cutler released by Bears.
    Gase was the only coach to work with Cutler that for promoted. It is strange to compare that to the HC, DC and OC of the 2011 team that were all praised for their brilliance yet couldn't win with Rivers, Cutler, and Carr, and were aall fired from the gigs they got promoted to.

  14. #29
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    Tangent note:
    Cutler and his wife are calling it quits.

    She wants the house, both kids, child support + healthcare
    and a more ambitious husband.

    Cutler shrugged his shoulders upon hearing the news.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUMCALC View Post
    Russell Wilson, Big Ben, Flacco, and Mahomes all have/had great arms, but yes for the most part cerebral QBs seem to do better than talented QBs.

    According to the CHI media, Cutler was hated by his teammates his for at least two years & part of it was because they loved playing with Orton
    Can you blame them I would hate some with his talent and work ethic who showed up to practice hungover regularly

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