Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 92
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    35,988

    John Elway - Greatest NFL Player/GM In History?

    I believe John Elway is one of the two best NFL Player / GMs in history, but I believe he will be #1....by the time he is finished. Ozzie Newsome, was also a GREAT player / GM, and to this juncture earns more Executive points based on his excellent career in management.

    Lets look at the resumes:

    Elway:

    Player:

    - Hall of Famer
    - One of the top QBs to ever play the game
    - 2 SB championships
    - SB MVP
    - 5 SB appearances
    - League MVP
    - 9 Pro Bowls
    - 1 All Pro (first team), 2 All Pro (second team)
    - Man of The Year

    GM:

    - 2 SB appearances
    - 1 SB championship
    - 5 playoff appearances in 9 years
    - Team looks ready for another playoff run

    Newsome

    Player:

    - Hall of Fame
    - Top 10 Tight End
    - Retired as All Time TE Receiver
    - 3 Pro Bowls
    - 2 All Pro (first team), 4 All Pro (second team)

    GM:

    - 2 SB championships
    - 5 years in Cleveland's Executive
    - 23 years as Exec/GM in Baltimore
    - 12 playoff appearances in 28 years
    - Respected for his draft skills/strategy

    Comparisons:

    Elway was the more important player, and was highly successful in terms of SB appearances and victories! Given he is often ranked in the top 5 of all time best QBs (many in the top 3), the most important position on the field, he gets a chunk of extra points. Newsome was a fantastic Tight End, and made his mark as a top 10 TE of all time. Nothing shabby, and like Elway, a deserved Hall of Famer!

    Newsome has the much lengthier, better Exec/GM career thus far in terms of success and longevity. He became an Exec for The Browns in 1991, and in 1996 he became an Exec and eventual GM for The Ravens. He won 2 SBs in that capacity.

    Elway has had 9 years to shine as a GM, after having an extensive business career following his playing days. In that limited time, he has helped the team to make 2 SB appearances, while winning one. Therefore he has played a major role in all 3 Broncos SB Championships, as well as being an integral factor in The Broncos making it to the big game on 7 occasions! From a SB perspective, Elway has easily outperformed Newsome. And as one of the best QBs to ever walk this planet, that is a decided edge, though Ozzie was a star player in his own right. But the reason this is even close, is the duration and relative success of Newsome as an Exec.

    Overall, I can see how Elway is #1 all time, as Player/ Exec...but lets give him a few years to see what else he can produce.

    BUT....if not now, and the way The Broncos look on paper, I suspect another SB appearance is a real possibility....maybe a win. Maybe two!! Therefore if John is not #1 now, I am convinced he will be.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    What are your thoughts? Did I miss someone obvious??

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the treasure valley, Idaho
    Posts
    16,606
    1. Yes
    2. Yes
    3. And yes!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    13,716
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    1. Yes
    2. Yes
    3. And yes!
    said it better than I could so QFT

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    35,988
    I had to give Ozzie some love.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    13,716
    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post

    BUT....if not now, and the way The Broncos look on paper, I suspect another SB appearance is a real possibility....maybe a win. Maybe two!! Therefore if John is not #1 now, I am convinced he will be.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    What are your thoughts? Did I miss someone obvious??
    If we get to another Super Bowl I think Elway will definitely be on a certain level in terms of GM at that point. I think if Elway had PM his whole career than Denver would have had the same long winning history that Brady and the Pats enjoyed. Lot of it is timing.

    Think we can start finding good arguments in the coaching ranks but if we keep it to Player + GMs ... Elway is close to the top and one Super Bowl away from being at the top imo.

    7 Super Bowls as a player and GM is pretty amazing. Building a great offense that takes a team to the SB and a great defense that wins the Super Bowl is pretty snappy.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    35,988
    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    If we get to another Super Bowl I think Elway will definitely be on a certain level in terms of GM at that point. I think if Elway had PM his whole career than Denver would have had the same long winning history that Brady and the Pats enjoyed. Lot of it is timing.

    Think we can start finding good arguments in the coaching ranks but if we keep it to Player + GMs ... Elway is close to the top and one Super Bowl away from being at the top imo.

    7 Super Bowls as a player and GM is pretty amazing. Building a great offense that takes a team to the SB and a great defense that wins the Super Bowl is pretty snappy.
    I think the 7 SBs appearances, winning as a player and GM, and being one of the greatest QBs ever gives Elway enough chips to get the #1 ranking. But if not, definitely within a few years. I believe the last few years hurt his credentials a bit, but the next few will restore all order....and verify that he is the GOAT!!!
    Last edited by CanDB; 05-15-2020 at 01:52 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    13,716
    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I think the 7 SBs appearances, winning as a player and GM, and being one of the greatest QBs ever gives Elway enough chips to get the #1 ranking. But if not, definitely within a few years. I believe the last few years hurt his credentials a bit, but the next few will restore all order....and verify that he in the GOAT!!!
    I understand how others are harsh on winning and losing but the NFL is hard to win. I think every era over 6 years outside of the Pats+Brady since free agency+salary cap has come with disappointing seasons.

    Shoot there are a lot of eras over those years that did not make it to 4 years.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    FORT COLLINS COLORADO
    Posts
    8,526
    i don't know i could judge this or these 2 or really this in general. out of all the sucessful Players into GMs i think Elway had the best Playing Career, that i feel goes to him for sure. but being the best ever in both really has a question mark in my mind. Ozzie Newsome was one of the best Drafter the NFL has ever seen. the picks and stuff he nailed is lined up on a wall and compared to elways there is none. Newsome has been way better at the draft. not to mention he didn't have any really down periods or really bad Drafts in general. i like what elway has been doing over the last few years, but Newsome as a GM was in a league of his own. he was the best GM(outside maybe Bilichek) in the nfl for a long time and the amount of HOFers or Future Hofers that Newsome has drafted i don't think you can count them with your hands. so i would Have Newsome as a better GM. which kinda evens out but to me i don't really think i could pick a best.

    Either way i would still take Newsome over Elway as a GM any day. but i would Also take Elway over Newsome as a player. so it probably evens out. but still it is really hard to judge.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    35,988
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    i don't know i could judge this or these 2 or really this in general. out of all the sucessful Players into GMs i think Elway had the best Playing Career, that i feel goes to him for sure. but being the best ever in both really has a question mark in my mind. Ozzie Newsome was one of the best Drafter the NFL has ever seen. the picks and stuff he nailed is lined up on a wall and compared to elways there is none. Newsome has been way better at the draft. not to mention he didn't have any really down periods or really bad Drafts in general. i like what elway has been doing over the last few years, but Newsome as a GM was in a league of his own. he was the best GM(outside maybe Bilichek) in the nfl for a long time and the amount of HOFers or Future Hofers that Newsome has drafted i don't think you can count them with your hands. so i would Have Newsome as a better GM. which kinda evens out but to me i don't really think i could pick a best.

    Either way i would still take Newsome over Elway as a GM any day. but i would Also take Elway over Newsome as a player. so it probably evens out. but still it is really hard to judge.
    Cool. Just to be sure, I am looking at it as a combined effort, so my so called GOAT is the best combined Player/GM of all time. And yes, Elway is the better player, but Ozzie is still ahead as a GM/Exec. But I thought it would be fun to make a new title based on the total effort/success of a player turning GM.

    In my opinion, with a few more good years, and maybe even another SB (touch wood), Elway reigns supreme in my books.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Left of Colorado
    Posts
    1,247
    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I think the 7 SBs appearances, winning as a player and GM, and being one of the greatest QBs ever gives Elway enough chips to get the #1 ranking. But if not, definitely within a few years. I believe the last few years hurt his credentials a bit, but the next few will restore all order....and verify that he in the GOAT!!!
    Great post Can Man. Imagine how different Denver Bronco history would be if Elway never came to Denver in 1983.

    And he stayed! Too Cool!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    35,988
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzbodog View Post
    Great post Can Man. Imagine how different Denver Bronco history would be if Elway never came to Denver in 1983.

    And he stayed! Too Cool!
    Thx jazz...to your point, I can not imagine!!!! Would we even have one ring????


  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    FORT COLLINS COLORADO
    Posts
    8,526
    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Cool. Just to be sure, I am looking at it as a combined effort, so my so called GOAT is the best combined Player/GM of all time. And yes, Elway is the better player, but Ozzie is still ahead as a GM/Exec. But I thought it would be fun to make a new title based on the total effort/success of a player turning GM.

    In my opinion, with a few more good years, and maybe even another SB (touch wood), Elway reigns supreme in my books.
    i think this is something better to look at when it is all said and done. also number of HOF players drafted should be involved in the stats.

    oakland raders gm
    latavis murray trade bait

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    35,988
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyousukeneko View Post
    i think this is something better to look at when it is all said and done. also number of HOF players drafted should be involved in the stats.
    No doubt. I started with a concept, knowing what Elway has done, and then I thought about who else compares. I've been impressed by Ozzie for a long time, so I knew he was in the running. To do this true justice, more stats are required. But from an initial perspective, I think it comes down to those two men, and in my books, Elway was the better player, and more successful in terms of SB appearances and victories. And he has time to add on to his production. But his 7 appearances and 3 wins are hard to look away from, and the fact he has tied Ozzie for GM related appearances, given his much fewer opportunities so far. If Elway hangs in for 5 -10 years, unless he bombs big time, I can see him as the Player/GM Goat..

    Bottom line, we are in very select company!!
    Last edited by CanDB; 05-15-2020 at 03:22 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    35,988
    Not to try to overly influence, but even though it may not have been his fault, Ozzie only made the playoffs once in his 5 years with Cleveland as an Exec, and his next 4 in Baltimore did not include one playoff visit....with 3 losing seasons and one at 500. Therefore, what Elway has done in his first 9 years as a GM is much, much better.... no matter how you slice it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    the gulf of mexico
    Posts
    16,505
    Super Bowls are the be all end all when it comes to being a GM. Drafting hall of fame players help in that regard but there are many Hall of Famers without rings and some others who are only in because of rings. Putting together a team is crucial and Elway has shown he can build a team from the dumpster and build a championship team, but that sustainment has eluded him so far. If Lock falls flat, Elway’s seat gets very hot again and this conversation likely never gets brought up again. If Lock takes off, then I think it becomes unquestionable who the best GM is/was.

    But taking into account the player side, it easily has to be Elway. I can’t think of anyone else off the top of my ahead outside of Newsome that has had this much success.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •