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  1. #31
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    Right there with you OP.

    When I look at what I believe to be our starting lineup, I don't see any below average players. Unproven, in the case of the 2nd/1st year players, but even the little we've seen from them gives me more reason to be optimistic than otherwise.

    Really, really exciting stuff is in the works here, and I'm so glad we get to experience it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    When you jump out the window hard on draft night defending a pick most people rightfully hated from the jump, I guess you have to go down swinging right? To claim "Bolles played very well last year" is the furthest thing from accurate, depending on what your definition of well and very are I guess. Fact is once again the transaction wire of NFL teams doesn't back up PFF and their offensive line ratings.

    If Bolles is as good as one in this thread thinks, why on earth would Elway not take the deal for the fifth-year option, openly declare Bolles will compete with another horrible lineman in Wilkerson, and why would it be reported we are looking at bringing in guys over the age of 30 to potentially come and play tackle? Something doesn't add up, and the consensus on Bolles is right, he is bad. Hey, PFF rated Evan Mathis better than most All-Pros of the decade after his 2015 season here, and he went on to sign a 1 year 4 million dollar deal after Elway didn't offer him anything, seems legitimate.

    Bolles 5th year option was not picked up because that money figure that they get for the 5th year is where Negotiations Start! Elway is a smart man and will not be paying bolles anything starting near that figure. If Bolles balls out and does amazing this year we will look to keep him around; however the contract will not be anywhere near that 10mil plus per year figure. That is why his 5th year option was not picked up. It has nothing to do with not having faith in him. It has nothing to do with him not coming back. It has everything to do with motivating him to play well this year. It has everything to do with not having to break the bank if he does play well this year and we do decide to keep him.


    ---------------------------



    As for the main topic, yes!!!! I have not been this excited for our team in a long while either. Looking at the schedule, I can see us and KC both being undefeated until we face each other. Not sure we win that one, but I think we have a pretty realistic shot at 10-6 to 12-4 this year. It to me depends solely on how Shurmer runs the offense. If he sucks like scangs, kubes, Mike Mccoy, then we wont hit those win totals. If he is anything decent and not predictable then we should easily hit those wins.


    I think we often forget who we had playing CB for us last year. Think about it, like actually think....We know we had CHJ. We know Yiadom was in because he sucked a bunch, but who else? Sure you can name names because you are a bronco fan. Duke, Trey, and others. BUT how many of you off the top of your head know just how much playing time they had. How many snaps they got. Which position they got those snaps? Was Yaidom on the outside? Slot? When parks was not lining up at CB- which CB did we line up? Do you know this? I dont even know it. I had to look. WOW. We really did trot out some "scrubs". They did well. They did well enough to have us as one of the better defenses in the league. The best RZ defense in the league.

    Now we get to add Bouye who is not as good as CHJ, but is better in the system than CHJ. bausby is back. And while this board hates on Callahan- he is REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD! He was better as a slot CB than CHJ was, in his prime! Callahan is REALLY GOOD!

    It is amazing we did as well as we did on defense with the guys we ran out at CB. This year that will be really improved. We know about the DL with CHubb, Von and Casey. We know that walker was playing well. Shelby is playing well. Dremont, Agim, Walker. Those boys are going to be nasty. The defense will assuredly make the jump to top 10, most likely we are looking at a top 5 unit.

    The offense with just the OLINE and Melvin Gordon additions would have been HUGE! Adding the other WR and O is going to really push the envelope. Those guys will take some time to get up to speed. However, their presence on the field will be enough to get those lanes open for the guys who do have it (lindsey, gordon, sutton, fant). We will make the playoffs this year. Have an outside shot at contending. I do not think we are at the chefs level yet.....But that is a big jump for the squad. Getting that playoff experience for the guys is good too. They will get the taste and they will come back hungry for more.

    This is going to be a real fun coming out party we have this season. There is a lot to be excited about!
    So far:
    FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
    1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    If Bolles balls out and does amazing this year we will look to keep him around; however the contract will not be anywhere near that 10mil plus per year figure.
    I've got to ask, why do you think this?

    If Bolles improves enough to play amazingly for 2020, then the offense as a whole will probably do quite well. If the offense does well, than the team is likely winning enough games to go to the playoffs. Free agents, especially free agent LTs, coming off of a career year on a successful team- get PAID. I guess it depends on what you consider an amazing year. I think being a clear, deserving pro bowler and maybe a 2nd team all-pro would be what I consider amazing.

    A deal averaging 10m per year would have Bolles around the 18th-highest paid LTs, after we see 2-3 top 10 LTs go in the next draft. Teams will see Bolles, the former 1st round, athletic specimen that he is- finally putting together a great year, helping the team to find success. If Bolles does indeed have an "amazing year", it will take far more than 10m per year to retain him.




    That is actually why I disagreed with not picking up the option:

    -If he has a poor 2020, we could have cut him, no strings attatched, as the option is only guaranteed for injury and Bolles is anything but injury-prone.

    -If he has a great 2020, we keep him for well below market value on the option.

    -If he has an average 2020, we keep him for a cost commensurate with average LT play.

  4. #34
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    I just want to see Bolles play well "this season.". in this offense. I'll let Elway worry about next season .

    I am not expecting an "amazing " year. Just modest improvement. For example, cutting his penalties, sacks and pressures by a third. Improved technique and chemistry withing the offense and with Risner. Not very high expectations but significant.

    Who knows what the OT situation looks like next year. At this point I have no clue if it should be considered a well thought out master plan or a another bungled free agency "negotiation" as Elway lets Bolles go check the market and watches him sign elsewhere. Time will tell.

    To your concerns of what will be considered a reasonable contract for even a slightly improved 4 year starter at LT. Consider the multi yr contracts signed in recent years.
    J. James- $13M yr./ R. Leary $9M yr / McGovern $9M yr/ Paradis/ $9M yr/ Even Sambraillo 4 yrs ago $5M yr... We know these players, Were they or are they worth their contracts on the open market? Does it matter when all it takes is one team to make a sizable contract offer?

    One man's trash is another man's treasure.

    I'm just going to enjoy the show this season and not worry about next season. I'm expecting some high level entertainment from both sides of the ball.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    I've got to ask, why do you think this?

    If Bolles improves enough to play amazingly for 2020, then the offense as a whole will probably do quite well. If the offense does well, than the team is likely winning enough games to go to the playoffs. Free agents, especially free agent LTs, coming off of a career year on a successful team- get PAID. I guess it depends on what you consider an amazing year. I think being a clear, deserving pro bowler and maybe a 2nd team all-pro would be what I consider amazing.

    A deal averaging 10m per year would have Bolles around the 18th-highest paid LTs, after we see 2-3 top 10 LTs go in the next draft. Teams will see Bolles, the former 1st round, athletic specimen that he is- finally putting together a great year, helping the team to find success. If Bolles does indeed have an "amazing year", it will take far more than 10m per year to retain him.




    That is actually why I disagreed with not picking up the option:

    -If he has a poor 2020, we could have cut him, no strings attatched, as the option is only guaranteed for injury and Bolles is anything but injury-prone.

    -If he has a great 2020, we keep him for well below market value on the option.

    -If he has an average 2020, we keep him for a cost commensurate with average LT play.


    its what Elway said. When they do the 5th year option- negotiations for a new contract start at that figure. That is the starting point, which is too high for Garrett. If he balls out then he may end up with a contract near that, but if we do the option that is where negotiations start. That is a big difference in price, negotiating and leverage.
    So far:
    FA- Melvin Gordon. Brandon Scherff
    1. Kenneth Murray LB; 2. Shenault WR; 2B. Biadazz Center, 3. OT

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa-pwn View Post
    I've got to ask, why do you think this?

    If Bolles improves enough to play amazingly for 2020, then the offense as a whole will probably do quite well. If the offense does well, than the team is likely winning enough games to go to the playoffs. Free agents, especially free agent LTs, coming off of a career year on a successful team- get PAID. I guess it depends on what you consider an amazing year. I think being a clear, deserving pro bowler and maybe a 2nd team all-pro would be what I consider amazing.

    A deal averaging 10m per year would have Bolles around the 18th-highest paid LTs, after we see 2-3 top 10 LTs go in the next draft. Teams will see Bolles, the former 1st round, athletic specimen that he is- finally putting together a great year, helping the team to find success. If Bolles does indeed have an "amazing year", it will take far more than 10m per year to retain him.




    That is actually why I disagreed with not picking up the option:

    -If he has a poor 2020, we could have cut him, no strings attatched, as the option is only guaranteed for injury and Bolles is anything but injury-prone.

    -If he has a great 2020, we keep him for well below market value on the option.

    -If he has an average 2020, we keep him for a cost commensurate with average LT play.
    I can see your points about the value in the option.

    This is just my opinion...I did not read it anywhere....but I think one of Bolles' issues is his motivation. I think he works hard but sometimes I think he struggles to get properly motivated to work on the things he needs to. Think not picking up his option will send him a clear message that he needs to work on his game.

    We can still franchise him for another year if he does well. I personally would NOT give him a big contract after 2020. Make him show two years in a row that he can play at a level worthy of a big contract.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I can see your points about the value in the option.

    This is just my opinion...I did not read it anywhere....but I think one of Bolles' issues is his motivation. I think he works hard but sometimes I think he struggles to get properly motivated to work on the things he needs to. Think not picking up his option will send him a clear message that he needs to work on his game.

    We can still franchise him for another year if he does well. I personally would NOT give him a big contract after 2020. Make him show two years in a row that he can play at a level worthy of a big contract.
    I think you're right on this. There's a difference between hustle and working on your craft. Bolles has disappointed primarily because he still suffers from the same technique problems he had coming into the league. The Broncos probably thought they could coach the technique, but for whatever reason it hasn't sunk in. Bolles hustles on the field, but he hasn't put the same effort into his craft. I think that's the root of declining the 5th year. If Bolles were progressing, they probably would have picked it up. Time to light a fire and see what happens. He may not change, in which case he'll be gone. He may progress and get paid. One thing's for sure, his play is not worth the 5th year price tag at this point.

  8. #38
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    OK....too much Bolles!!!






  9. #39
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    This is from Marc Sessler of NFL.com:

    Staying in the AFC West, you can stick this on your little bulletin board: The suddenly stacked Broncos will make the playoffs as a wild card. Concerns over Drew Lock will puff into the ether as he peppers opponents weekly with on-target laser shots to Courtland Sutton and first-round wideout Jerry Jeudy while Phillip Lindsay and Melvin Gordon play good cop/bad cop on the ground (assuming Denver's line can avoid tumbling into disaster).

    Sounds about right to me.

  10. #40
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    I really like this seemingly phased approach to building the team. You canít fix everything in one offseason, and realistically youíll always have some holes on your roster. Early on Elway invested a lot on offense and it produced great results, then he invested a lot on defense and it produced a historic defense and another super bowl. Then there was a lull where it seemed we were trying to fix everything with low floor high ceiling guys. But the past 2 offseasons weíve really focused on overhauling the offense. Lock, Risner, Fant, Jeudy, Hamler, Albert O, Cushenberry, Cleveland, James, Muti, Fumagalli, Schlottman, Gordon, Vannett, Glasgow, Winfree. Iím not sure how it compares with the rest of the league but thatís 16 new offensive players (and Iím probably forgetting a few) in just 2 off seasons and all are young guys with most on low contracts. You can go back another season and throw in Sutton, Hamilton, Freeman, and Lindsay as well.

    Thatís a big infusion of offensive talent and even though not all of them will pan out, you have to figure we are still going to be pretty damn good on offense. And we did all of this while spending just enough to maintain what we have on defense, or drop down slightly. But now it leaves us set up to invest heavily on defense next offseason and potentially turn this team into a powerhouse.

    And Iíd also like to mention the late round/undrafted guys that have outperformed their draft status. It doesnít get mentioned enough but hitting on those guys allowed us to attempt this power shift. Guys like Trey Marshall, Bausby, Purcell, Johnson, Davontae Harris, Duke Dawson as a 2nd round cast off, even Shelby Harris. They have all acquitted themselves well enough to give some reasonable amount of confidence in them to allow us to just pick our spots on who to take on defense.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I really like this seemingly phased approach to building the team. You can’t fix everything in one offseason, and realistically you’ll always have some holes on your roster. Early on Elway invested a lot on offense and it produced great results, then he invested a lot on defense and it produced a historic defense and another super bowl. Then there was a lull where it seemed we were trying to fix everything with low floor high ceiling guys. But the past 2 offseasons we’ve really focused on overhauling the offense. Lock, Risner, Fant, Jeudy, Hamler, Albert O, Cushenberry, Cleveland, James, Muti, Fumagalli, Schlottman, Gordon, Vannett, Glasgow, Winfree. I’m not sure how it compares with the rest of the league but that’s 16 new offensive players (and I’m probably forgetting a few) in just 2 off seasons and all are young guys with most on low contracts. You can go back another season and throw in Sutton, Hamilton, Freeman, and Lindsay as well.

    That’s a big infusion of offensive talent and even though not all of them will pan out, you have to figure we are still going to be pretty damn good on offense. And we did all of this while spending just enough to maintain what we have on defense, or drop down slightly. But now it leaves us set up to invest heavily on defense next offseason and potentially turn this team into a powerhouse.

    And I’d also like to mention the late round/undrafted guys that have outperformed their draft status. It doesn’t get mentioned enough but hitting on those guys allowed us to attempt this power shift. Guys like Trey Marshall, Bausby, Purcell, Johnson, Davontae Harris, Duke Dawson as a 2nd round cast off, even Shelby Harris. They have all acquitted themselves well enough to give some reasonable amount of confidence in them to allow us to just pick our spots on who to take on defense.
    This seems to be a view of more folks of late, and I think it is quite accurate. I thought we'd go a little more D in the offseason, but we did make some key acquisitions (Casey, Bouye). But I am with you, the O looks very solid for a long time, other than a few vets that may need to be replaced. But definitely this core group of young men should be the roster for years to come. So yes, back to D. Next offseason should be highly devoted to it. If the young, core O group is for real, and I believe they are, we can upgrade our D next year, and be serious contenders for many years!

    (and I only said the B name once.....and it was Bouye!)

  12. #42
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    You left off the most expensive offensive addition.

    Juwan James.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    You left off the most expensive offensive addition.

    Juwan James.
    Heís in there, although I will admit I hesitated. But him not playing wasnít really the point, just that there has been a very concerted effort to fix the anemic offense. Hereís hoping to a healthy season from him because he can make a world of difference along the oline.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Heís in there, although I will admit I hesitated. But him not playing wasnít really the point, just that there has been a very concerted effort to fix the anemic offense. Hereís hoping to a healthy season from him because he can make a world of difference along the oline.
    My apologies. Did not see him tucked between the rookies.

    Just agreeing with your point. An effort is being made to revamp the pathetic offense. Adding James, Gordon and Glasgow are important factors in doing so.

    Keeping them on the field and contributing (along with the young playmakers) will define how ďimprovedĒ this offense truly is. I have high expectations they can!

  15. #45
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    And just to emphasize, Bolles will likely be the only starter on offense from 2 seasons ago. Sutton as well but that was after Thomas was traded.

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