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  1. #1
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    Elway, Manning or Brady?

    After watching The Match golf tournament with Manning and Brady it got me thinking again of the best of all time. Brady is probably going down as the best player in NFL history, but what if we looked at this a different way. Would Brady survive even 1 season if he was playing in lets say Jacksonville as a rookie? Did Brady evolve into this type of player and become the force he is because of early ideal circumstances?

    I'm going to add Elway to this debate.

    Which QB do you think would come out on top if they were all just coming out of college this year and were put into a simulation where they each would play a whole season with every NFL team?

    Meaning Brady would not have Belicheck coaching him for 98% of his games.

    Environment, system, coaches, weather, surrounding talent, ownership, the division and era played in are just a few factors that determine a players success.

    If we were to factor in all these elements (meaning every QB plays in the best and worst of it), who comes out strongest?

    I'm going with Elway. I think the advantage of having a mobile QB in today's NFL is bigger than ever. Elway has already demonstrated winning with the little talent around him in his early years compared to the other two QB's. Elway also made an appearance in 3 superbowls with that depleted talent and with a coach that didn't align well to his fullest capablilties.

    1st year rookie QB rankings for me:

    1. Elway
    2. Manning
    3. Brady

    Would your ranking order change if it were a 5 year sample? 10 year sample?

    Love to hear opinions and have a healthy debate.
    Last edited by MarshallMoss; 05-29-2020 at 09:09 AM.
    "He's going to be the #1 receiver, and is going to be a star in this league for a long time" Todd Mcshay on Jerry Jeudy

  2. #2
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    Iíd go with Elway out of those 3 always. I know people will mention Montana in the discussion, but Iíve always thought Steve Young has been criminally underrated in the GOAT discussion personally and if he were to be included then heíd be right up there with Elway

  3. #3
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    Elway...his athleticism would carry him early...
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    Adopted Bronco: Andy Janovich

  4. #4
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    John Freaking Elway!!!!!!!
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I wonít Back Down.
    No Matter How Stupid Your Comments Are!
    Still Not Backing Down!!!

  5. #5
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    Elway!
    Played in an era when:
    - Qbís were allowed to be hit.
    - receivers were allowed to be hit
    - qb wasnít allowed to throw the ball away outside the box

  6. #6
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    I think they all are amazing.

    We just have to consider ourselves lucky to have had both Elway and Manning on our team

  7. #7
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    I believe that a passing, mobile, athletic QB is better suited to today's NFL, therefore I give Elway the edge. In that regard, I am sure Steve Young would be a stud, and Montana, of course, because he was nimble and smart, and accurate.

    Brady and Manning would be a little less effective than Elway, and Young, on teams with weaker Olines.

    As an aside, if you gave Marino a good Oline and a couple of decent receivers, he was a pleasure to watch!! An AMAZING passer!!
    Last edited by CanDB; 05-29-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I believe that a passing, mobile, athletic QB is better suited to today's NFL, therefore I give Elway the edge. In that regard, I am sure Steve Young would be a stud, and Montana, of course, because he was nimble and smart, and accurate.

    Brady and Manning would be a little less effective than Elway, and Young, on teams with weaker Olines.

    As an aside, if you gave Marino a good Oline and a couple of decent receivers, he was a pleasure to watch!! An AMAZING passer!!
    Seeing that Elway so far is the consensus pick, who other than Manning/Brady could dethrone him?

    A few have put Steve Young in the conversation...would he be better than Elway in today's NFL?

    I love Young but I do have two knocks against him that would put him below Elway:

    1. Young had amazing surrounding talent around him early in his career to be successful. The best receiver ever to play the game in Rice and a soon to be HOF in Roger Craig. Elway didn't have anybody in his early years.

    2. Young played a little reckless and didn't have a long career in an era that was much slower and smaller than today's NFL. Would Young last his first year in today's NFL? Elway was very calculated when he ran and was amazing at dodging heavy hits (end of career helicopter being an exception lol)
    "He's going to be the #1 receiver, and is going to be a star in this league for a long time" Todd Mcshay on Jerry Jeudy

  9. #9
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    This gets complicated. Based on the guidelines you provided, I say Elway over Young. I still like Montana in the conversation. And to be fair, Brady and Manning would do very well on most types of teams...but again, they would not excel on teams with weaker Os. Then again, few would.

    Interesting comparisons....Ole Archie Manning might have been a better known QB had he landed on a quality team.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallMoss View Post
    Seeing that Elway so far is the consensus pick, who other than Manning/Brady could dethrone him?

    A few have put Steve Young in the conversation...would he be better than Elway in today's NFL?

    I love Young but I do have two knocks against him that would put him below Elway:

    1. Young had amazing surrounding talent around him early in his career to be successful. The best receiver ever to play the game in Rice and a soon to be HOF in Roger Craig. Elway didn't have anybody in his early years.

    2. Young played a little reckless and didn't have a long career in an era that was much slower and smaller than today's NFL. Would Young last his first year in today's NFL? Elway was very calculated when he ran and was amazing at dodging heavy hits (end of career helicopter being an exception lol)
    Young didnít have Craig when he took over the starting job from Montana. The team was still very good and still had Jerry Rice but the offense wasnít quite what Montana had to work with.

    Young was in the NFL for 15 seasons, granted he was the starter for only 9 seasons. But he also didnít get a real chance until he was already 30 years old. I just think that if he went to a better situation than Tampa Bay when he crossed over from the USFL he would be even more highly regarded than he is. Just like Iím sure if Elway had some talent around him on offense heíd be the unquestioned GOAT.

    Those guys will probably forever be 1 and 2 for me because the added mobility opens up so much for an offense and as seen with Elway, it can take you places you probably wouldnít have been otherwise.

  11. #11
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    Sammy Baugh
    Washington, 1937-52
    21,886 yards, 187 TD, 203 INT, 72.2 rating

    Baugh’s stats are unimpressive in a modern context, but he retired with nearly every major passing record: completions, yards, touchdowns, and more. He quarterbacked two championship teams, and he was a charter member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.This guy would blow up teams in this era and he was also a decent runner, a good defensive back, and the best punter of his generation
    http://s7.postimg.org/hjr8fcmaz/EM2.jpg

    Adopted Bronco: Andy Janovich

  12. #12
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    I was thinking about the old time QBs as well, and Sammy Baugh was one of them. I don't know enough about Otto Graham, but he was a big star in his day. Then there's Johnny U, who is typically rated in the top layer of QBs.

    It's tough to compare these gents to more modern day, because so few of us have seen them play. But they are not to be discounted for that either.

  13. #13
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    I pick Elway. When his team was good enough to keep them in the game Elway was as clutch as any QB. Nerves of steel, made players around him better and physical abilities that were off the charts.

    My 2nd pick would be Dan Marino. In terms of pure passer there has been no better QB. Did not have the mobility of Elway or Young but his release and delivery of the ball were football-godlike.

    3rd would be PM. Lacked the physical skills others had but his mental ability and leadership was the next level compared to other Qbs.

    I know Tom Brady has a spot in the conversation. Come back after what I see him do with the Bucs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    I pick Elway. When his team was good enough to keep them in the game Elway was as clutch as any QB. Nerves of steel, made players around him better and physical abilities that were off the charts.

    My 2nd pick would be Dan Marino. In terms of pure passer there has been no better QB. Did not have the mobility of Elway or Young but his release and delivery of the ball were football-godlike.

    3rd would be PM. Lacked the physical skills others had but his mental ability and leadership was the next level compared to other Qbs.

    I know Tom Brady has a spot in the conversation. Come back after what I see him do with the Bucs.
    Good post H. Elway was clutch. He made things happen. He had a strong arm. Again, he fits the parameters of this analysis.

    I don't see Marino quite that high on the list but I completely agree with you that this man was as pure a passer as anyone who ever played the game. It was masterful!!

    But I also wanted to follow up on what you said about Manning. Manning was unique in that he truly ran the O. He was an OC on the field. That's worth something in the final assessment.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Young didnít have Craig when he took over the starting job from Montana. The team was still very good and still had Jerry Rice but the offense wasnít quite what Montana had to work with.

    Young was in the NFL for 15 seasons, granted he was the starter for only 9 seasons. But he also didnít get a real chance until he was already 30 years old. I just think that if he went to a better situation than Tampa Bay when he crossed over from the USFL he would be even more highly regarded than he is. Just like Iím sure if Elway had some talent around him on offense heíd be the unquestioned GOAT.

    Those guys will probably forever be 1 and 2 for me because the added mobility opens up so much for an offense and as seen with Elway, it can take you places you probably wouldnít have been otherwise.
    Thanks for the clarifications with Young. I'm going by memory and as I get older it is fading. I think the main point about Young is he came into an environment that was a "well oiled machine", the tables could not be set for him any better. Walking in with so much momentum into a winning program is huge. Would his career have taken off with momentum if he was the QB of today's Jags? I don't know what his situation was in Tampa but that might give a lot of insight to the question.

    These are hard questions to really answer, but they do make us think a little more in what goes into making someone the best or great.
    "He's going to be the #1 receiver, and is going to be a star in this league for a long time" Todd Mcshay on Jerry Jeudy

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