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  1. #31
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    It's pretty hard to judge. Supporting cast means a lot. All 3 QBs are well known for being the kind of QBs that can elevate the team around them.

    Elway took some awful teams to the Super Bowl. Had he had more talent around him in his early years, his SB record would easily compare to Brady.

    Brady was a top tier QB who often had no name receivers. The Pats have been dominant for 20 years. A lot of that was Brady. A lot of that was Belichick. How much do you attribute to one and not the other? Almost impossible to say. The one year Brady missed they went 11-5... And still missed the playoffs.

    And speaking of missing a year, Manning is easily one of those guys that could elevate a team. The one year he sat out, his Colts, which would consistently win 12-13 games a season, managed 2 wins. That's the difference a GOAT QB makes.

    Then he came to Denver and did the same thing here. Even when he looked awful, he was still so cerebral that he could beat you when throwing more INTs than TDs, as the Panthers learned the hard way.

    I don't think you could rank them without considering the situations they were in. These 3 were gonna be great no matter where they ended up. An argument could be made that Brady wouldn't have, given that 6th round picks don't often get the opportunity he did. But I still think he could have been a star no matter where you put him.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon30 View Post
    It's pretty hard to judge. Supporting cast means a lot. All 3 QBs are well known for being the kind of QBs that can elevate the team around them.

    Elway took some awful teams to the Super Bowl. Had he had more talent around him in his early years, his SB record would easily compare to Brady.

    Brady was a top tier QB who often had no name receivers. The Pats have been dominant for 20 years. A lot of that was Brady. A lot of that was Belichick. How much do you attribute to one and not the other? Almost impossible to say. The one year Brady missed they went 11-5... And still missed the playoffs.

    And speaking of missing a year, Manning is easily one of those guys that could elevate a team. The one year he sat out, his Colts, which would consistently win 12-13 games a season, managed 2 wins. That's the difference a GOAT QB makes.

    Then he came to Denver and did the same thing here. Even when he looked awful, he was still so cerebral that he could beat you when throwing more INTs than TDs, as the Panthers learned the hard way.

    I don't think you could rank them without considering the situations they were in. These 3 were gonna be great no matter where they ended up. An argument could be made that Brady wouldn't have, given that 6th round picks don't often get the opportunity he did. But I still think he could have been a star no matter where you put him.
    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    On the field it's hard to go wrong with any of them...so I'll go with Peyton because of his off the field personality. He's the most fun of the bunch by far.

    Elway is probably the best if they had to play on a bad team.
    An interesting thing to consider is how would the QB do on another team.

    For example before Jim Fassel/Kubes(post SF)/Shannahan(Post SF) people would say Elway could not play in the West Coast offense and could not do the things Joe Montana did.

    It is an abstract comparison but it is interesting to wonder if PM could do what Tom Brady did with the NE teams. More abstract but could Steve Young do what Tom Brady did? What would Tom Brady do in the teams Elway took to the Super Bowl?

    This is why I am excited to see Tom Brady play in Tampa this year. I learned a lot about Joe Montana when he played for the Chiefs. He did not add any hardware to his credentials but he showed me a lot about his ability to play QB.

  3. #33
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    Direct quarterback comparisons are hard because there are a million different ways to be a great player.

    Whatís interesting to me though is their leadership that was so critical to the team having success. If anyone has seen Micheal Jordanís The Last Dance series, it documents how much of a bully he was to get his teammates working hard and playing at his level. So when people say he made those around him elevate their game, itís true but it came at considerable cost.

    Manning was a bit the same way when you read multiple accounts of him giving his teammates a hard time, making them fearful of messing up in practice, knowing that if they were off by just a little on a route etc that they would hear from the sheriff. He was tough on guys.

    Brady has Belichick to do that for him and Belichick is definitely a bully. Cross him once and youíre done.

    Elway on the other hand has multiple stories about he wasnít a guy who got on you, he just came out with confidence and inspired those around him, gave them the confidence that they were going to win. He took guys on his shoulders and carried them but there was still something left of them when he was done. I think he made people around him better in a more optimal way and was more of a transformational leader. For this reason (and the fact that I just like that confident, gun slinger, run around and do the amazing style of play and Iím a homer) I pick Elway Elway Elway.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humberg View Post
    Direct quarterback comparisons are hard because there are a million different ways to be a great player.

    Whatís interesting to me though is their leadership that was so critical to the team having success. If anyone has seen Micheal Jordanís The Last Dance series, it documents how much of a bully he was to get his teammates working hard and playing at his level. So when people say he made those around him elevate their game, itís true but it came at considerable cost.

    Manning was a bit the same way when you read multiple accounts of him giving his teammates a hard time, making them fearful of messing up in practice, knowing that if they were off by just a little on a route etc that they would hear from the sheriff. He was tough on guys.

    Brady has Belichick to do that for him and Belichick is definitely a bully. Cross him once and youíre done.

    Elway on the other hand has multiple stories about he wasnít a guy who got on you, he just came out with confidence and inspired those around him, gave them the confidence that they were going to win. He took guys on his shoulders and carried them but there was still something left of them when he was done. I think he made people around him better in a more optimal way and was more of a transformational leader. For this reason (and the fact that I just like that confident, gun slinger, run around and do the amazing style of play and Iím a homer) I pick Elway Elway Elway.
    Good points. I see Manning in a Jordan way, just not as much of a bully. Manning demanded commitment and perfection from everyone, but more so from himself. It put a lot of pressure on everyone around him not to disappoint him. Manning's look of disapproval has to be a top 5 all time in the NFL... lol.

    Even though Brady had Belichek, it is well documented how Brady rode his receivers throughout the years.

    Elway was different. I wonder if Elway had more Manning personality in him if it would have made a difference in his career success?

    FYI, I liked him just the way he was

  5. #35
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    If I want to win the games I'll take Manning. If I want to watch the games I'll take Elway. Tom Brady loses every eye test I've got. He answers tough questions like a fifth grader.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by welderhead View Post
    If I want to win the games I'll take Manning. If I want to watch the games I'll take Elway. Tom Brady loses every eye test I've got. He answers tough questions like a fifth grader.
    Hmmmm...very interesting. I do agree there has never been a more thrilling, draw dropping athlete to watch than Elway for me.

    Manning probably would have had 5 or 6 super bowls if it wasn't for Belichick/Brady in his way (the greatest qb/coach combo in NFL history).

    So if we morphed together:

    Manning - competitiveness, student of game, and play calling General

    Elway - physical attributes, comeback will and mentality and improvisational
    magic

    Brady - Jawline and smile

    We would have the perfectly scientifically made qb?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallMoss View Post
    Hmmmm...very interesting. I do agree there has never been a more thrilling, draw dropping athlete to watch than Elway for me.

    Manning probably would have had 5 or 6 super bowls if it wasn't for Belichick/Brady in his way (the greatest qb/coach combo in NFL history).

    So if we morphed together:

    Manning - competitiveness, student of game, and play calling General

    Elway - physical attributes, comeback will and mentality and improvisational
    magic

    Brady - Jawline and smile

    We would have the perfectly scientifically made qb?
    I mean if Elway dropped your drawers maybe you should go with his jawline and smile...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarshallMoss View Post

    Which QB do you think would come out on top if they were all just coming out of college this year and were put into a simulation where they each would play a whole season with every NFL team?

    .
    So, are we all just going to ignore that there are 32 NFL teams? So, if they all came out in this theoretical situation and had to play a complete season for every NFL team, each QB would play 32 NFL seasons. So if they were all Juniors, non-redshirt, we are looking at their youngest, 20 years old? So when they completed this experiment, theyíd be 52?

    Iím guessing around season 17, all their seasons are going to look a lot alike, LOL.

    Iíll always choose Elway, because Iím a Broncos fan, first and foremost. But he wasnít as efficient as Manning, or even Brady. Itís an interesting idea, more a Madden type idea, but when you look at the differences, I think youíll always have a debate going on because peopleís preferences are so different.

    Some people like Adrian Petersonís running style, I prefer Barry Sanders. Some like a flashy Moss or T.O., I like the work like mentality of Eddie Mac and Rod Smith.

    When it comes to QBs, Iíll always take those gunslingers (Elway, Farve, Plummer, Rothlesburger) over the efficient killers (Montana, Brady, Manning). Itís just preference. And when you add escability, it gets me going.

    Still, I had to laugh at the thought of 52 year old QBs playing NFL football.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel51 View Post
    So, are we all just going to ignore that there are 32 NFL teams? So, if they all came out in this theoretical situation and had to play a complete season for every NFL team, each QB would play 32 NFL seasons. So if they were all Juniors, non-redshirt, we are looking at their youngest, 20 years old? So when they completed this experiment, theyíd be 52?

    Iím guessing around season 17, all their seasons are going to look a lot alike, LOL.

    Iíll always choose Elway, because Iím a Broncos fan, first and foremost. But he wasnít as efficient as Manning, or even Brady. Itís an interesting idea, more a Madden type idea, but when you look at the differences, I think youíll always have a debate going on because peopleís preferences are so different.

    Some people like Adrian Petersonís running style, I prefer Barry Sanders. Some like a flashy Moss or T.O., I like the work like mentality of Eddie Mac and Rod Smith.

    When it comes to QBs, Iíll always take those gunslingers (Elway, Farve, Plummer, Rothlesburger) over the efficient killers (Montana, Brady, Manning). Itís just preference. And when you add escability, it gets me going.

    Still, I had to laugh at the thought of 52 year old QBs playing NFL football.
    That's funny if it actually played out that way. Didn't figure out the math because this was a hypothetical Madden like simulation. I'm glad you emphasized what the question of the original post was.
    "He's going to be the #1 receiver, and is going to be a star in this league for a long time" Todd Mcshay on Jerry Jeudy

  10. #40
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    Interesting question!

    1st-year rookie QB rankings for me:

    1. Manning, he should be our current OC.
    2. Brady because he's a less athletic version of Joe Montana.
    3. Elway Scarecrow'd-it, seven tds to 14 ints his year one.

    Ten Year's Later:

    1. Manning won one SB with a new team.
    2. Elway is a backyard QB.
    3. Brady because Elway went to Stanford.

    I would take Mike Vick over all three.

    https://youtu.be/RdO8_IDiAm0

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzerpete View Post
    Interesting question!

    1st-year rookie QB rankings for me:

    1. Manning, he should be our current OC.
    2. Brady because he's a less athletic version of Joe Montana.
    3. Elway Scarecrow'd-it, seven tds to 14 ints his year one.

    Ten Year's Later:

    1. Manning won one SB with a new team.
    2. Elway is a backyard QB.
    3. Brady because Elway went to Stanford.

    I would take Mike Vick over all three.

    https://youtu.be/RdO8_IDiAm0

    There is a difference between a QB who can make electric plays and a qb who can win a Super Bowl.

    I do not have time to look for the interview when Mike Vick came back to the NFL after going to jail. Mike essentially told his former Atlanta coach that Mike was not the type of player to do the things elite Qbs do to win games.

    Sometimes the very best physically talented players come into the NFL not willing to do the things that builds elite players in the NFL.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    There is a difference between a QB who can make electric plays and a qb who can win a Super Bowl.

    I do not have time to look for the interview when Mike Vick came back to the NFL after going to jail. Mike essentially told his former Atlanta coach that Mike was not the type of player to do the things elite Qbs do to win games.

    Sometimes the very best physically talented players come into the NFL not willing to do the things that builds elite players in the NFL.
    Vick was able to take responsibility for his actions, which is commendable.

    Whatever the situation in ATL, in PHI, Andy Reid signed FA Vick then shipped McNabb to WAS.
    Vick's passing numbers in PHI improved, which makes sense since Reid mentored Favre and Mahomes.

    I'd still take Vick's cannon arm and his dynamic 4.25/4.33 speed.
    I think Vick would have won some SBs under Shanahan, but we'll never know.

  13. #43
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    Montana was better than Elway. Full stop. Not even a question outside of Colorado.

    Just look at the numbers. Beats Elway decisively in every category.

    I liked Elway more obviously. But Montana was a better QB.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I’d go with Elway out of those 3 always. I know people will mention Montana in the discussion, but I’ve always thought Steve Young has been criminally underrated in the GOAT discussion personally and if he were to be included then he’d be right up there with Elway
    Its interesting that its like a succession of things aligned that made young somewhat overlooked when it comes to goat discussions

    1. Initially taking was it at the time a record contract to go to the long since defunct and forgotten usfl with the la express .

    2. Coming back to the nfl and instead of going back to the bengals or turning his nose again on a lowly franchise he goes to the ….. arguably most inept franchise at the time tampa bay bucs .

    3. Getting talked out of leaving them by probably the most revered coach and franchise at the time bill walsh and the 49ers with the sweetener that montana wont overcome his injuries .

    4. Had to endure the ‘ but montana is a proven winner ‘ narrative not only by the media and fans but probably by walsh himself to avoid criticism , the 49ers may have avoided the jan 88 upset loss at home to the vikings if young was the starter .

    5. Remains the back up for another three straight seasons , the 49ers win the super bowl in 88 and 89 but young would have won rings on those teams easily .

    6. Finishes the 91 season with the nfl's highest passer rating but the 49ers miss the playoffs with a 10 - 6 record .

    7. Had the misfortune of going up against arguably the most complete team the nfl had ever seen at the time in the 92 cowboys .

    8. After finally winning the sb came up against what i think was just a better team in the packers for three straight years 95 - 97 .

    its easy to look back and second guess but i think seifert should have benched montana for young to start the second half vs the giants in the jan 91 nfc championship game , something to be said here overall i guess about becoming an initial ' face of a franchise ' in this case the bengals and avoid being some diluted other .

    just my two cents , v 2.0 .
    Last edited by dbfansincefeb87; 06-04-2020 at 05:11 PM. Reason: one year with the bucs not two

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbfansincefeb87 View Post
    Its interesting that its like a succession of things aligned that made young somewhat overlooked when it comes to goat discussions

    1. Initially taking was it at the time a record contract to go to the long since defunct and forgotten usfl with the la express .

    2. Coming back to the nfl and instead of going back to the bengals or turning his nose again on a lowly franchise he goes to the ….. arguably most inept franchise at the time tampa bay bucs .

    3. Getting talked out of leaving them by probably the most revered coach and franchise at the time bill walsh and the 49ers with the sweetener that montana wont overcome his injuries .

    4. Had to endure the ‘ but montana is a proven winner ‘ narrative not only by the media and fans but probably by walsh himself to avoid criticism , the 49ers may have avoided the jan 88 upset loss at home to the vikings if young was the starter .

    5. Remains the back up for another three straight seasons , the 49ers win the super bowl in 88 and 89 but young would have won rings on those teams easily .

    6. Finishes the 91 season with the nfl's highest passer rating but the 49ers miss the playoffs with a 10 - 6 record .

    7. Had the misfortune of going up against arguably the most complete team the nfl had ever seen at the time in the 92 cowboys .

    8. After finally winning the sb came up against what i think was just a better team in the packers for three straight years 95 - 97 .

    its easy to look back and second guess but i think seifert should have benched montana for young to start the second half vs the giants in the jan 91 nfc championship game , something to be said here overall i guess about becoming an initial ' face of a franchise ' in this case the bengals and avoid being some diluted other .

    just my two cents , v 2.0 .
    As good as the teams may have been and yatayata. Winning a super bowl is never "easy".

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