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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    IMO all law enforcement personnel should wear lapel cams. I think it would eliminate finger pointing and establish the most accurate record. It would probably protect everyone involved.
    Agreed

    Not just video but I think audio should be recorded as well.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    Agreed

    Not just video but I think audio should be recorded as well.
    Of course, absolutely.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  3. #198
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    I regards to body cams. I read a study they did with them. Do those that just want the result. It determined that they don’t really accurately show what happened in a incident. It was food for the words used but that was about it.

    During the study they showed a mix of regular people and police officers video footage of a staged incident and asked at the end of the clip. We’re the police justified in this use of force ? Most said no.

    Then they showed the exact sensation for other angles. And the perception changed - a lot.

    They ca me to the result it would take approx 40+ Cameras and angles to accurate show what really happened in an incident.

    It was really cool. I will try to find it or a link to it. It was eye opening For sure.

    But. I do like the idea of cameras or at least recording equipment as it keeps everyone, on all sides, polite. And again, looking at studies it clears police more often than convicts them. Anything that helps with accurate recall of events without relying on memory and bias alone is a good thring. That autism shows you still have to be very careful with seeing one depiction of an event.
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    Adopted Bronco: Andy Janovich

  4. #199
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    No issue with cameras or audio except that there will still be biased interpretations of what is seen and heard.

    How many times in recent years have we heard arguing, defying of orders and vile hate filled speech directed at a police officer during traffic stops, breaking up a party or in peaceful protests turned ugly? Yet the prevailing attitude tends to be the ďpoliceĒ escalated it. Any accountability?

    How many times have we watched someone struggle, make erratic moves, throw something or even push or hit a policeman and when they get hurt it was the police that escalated it? Any accountability?

    Even with the above incident with the man pushed and injured. We are seeing the same thing. But have come to a wide variety of conclusions of accountability. In that one particular video I see an avoidable horrible incident. The man could have chosen to avoid confrontation as most of the protesters chose. The police could have moved him along without the shove. But did either side expect him to stumble backwards so awkwardly and get injured.

    I am glad the discussion is so widespread. I am glad there truly seems to be some hope for social change and economic, educational, health, employment improvements in communities that desperately need them.

    But that change has to be from all of us. An unbiased accountability of our own actions and words. For years, I have cringed every time I hear or see a comment lumping an entire group as one.

    IMO ď those peopleĒ type comments are just as damaging and biased if directed at a any group no matter what the color of skin, religious beliefs, sexual identity or even when directed at ď those BlueĒ .

    Accountability is all our responsibilities. Change is upon us all. What kind of change is the question we should all be asking each other. Are we coming together or dividing ourselves even more based on what we see and hear and most importantly interpret it?
    Last edited by FR Tim; 06-12-2020 at 09:36 AM.

  5. #200
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    I like what is happening for the most part. Seems like every day at least one video appears with some apparent racism. Though a video does not capture everything, before and after, it is quite clear when one of the people involved resorts to the mentioning the other person's ethnicity. There is no place for that.

    Therefore I am glad this is happening, because more folks will video and share accordingly, if it's racist or flat out wrong. That comes with such "movements", where people get strong together. You can only suppress for so long. Eventually large groups of people will join in, because the will to do right needs to be heard.

  6. #201
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    Unfortunately it's a battle that wont be won . You cant force someone not to be a racist . There will always be people that think and live like this . It's not only whites either . A co worker told me he went to visit family in Indy . Hes half black and half white , light skinned . He said he was looked down at and basically told to get out of a liquor store because he wasnt dark enough.

    It's pretty sad . We've came a long way since slavery , application of segregation by our Govt. ect..... this is what happens when we raise our children with these ideas . They raise theirs and so on .

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    Unfortunately it's a battle that wont be won . You cant force someone not to be a racist . There will always be people that think and live like this . It's not only whites either . A co worker told me he went to visit family in Indy . Hes half black and half white , light skinned . He said he was looked down at and basically told to get out of a liquor store because he wasnt dark enough.

    It's pretty sad . We've came a long way since slavery , application of segregation by our Govt. ect..... this is what happens when we raise our children with these ideas . They raise theirs and so on .
    This may just be my take, but my kids (who are in their 30s) are as objective about people as any folks I have ever met. I am not sure how to measure, but if not zero, they are as close to zero racism as I have ever witnessed. I give credit to my wife more so than me, but we did what we could to teach them respectfulness. But I think they, and many from their generation, are leading the way to fully appreciating human rights. And they and their group of friends are well travelled, and have been around folks from pretty much all walks of life.

    Not saying each and every one of them, because I know some will say different, but at least the ones I've met are pretty open minded.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    Unfortunately it's a battle that wont be won . You cant force someone not to be a racist . There will always be people that think and live like this . It's not only whites either . A co worker told me he went to visit family in Indy . Hes half black and half white , light skinned . He said he was looked down at and basically told to get out of a liquor store because he wasnt dark enough.

    It's pretty sad . We've came a long way since slavery , application of segregation by our Govt. ect..... this is what happens when we raise our children with these ideas . They raise theirs and so on .
    You may not be able to force someone to change what they already believe but I do believe that you can open a personís eyes to not pass that part of themselves on or show it to others. Growing up my stepdad was very much racist, my mom wasnít so much but she wouldnít go out of her way to disagree either, while my actual dad loved everyone. Over the years of talking to them, I think that the biggest factor in their views may not have necessarily been the parents who raised them but rather their personal interactions growing up.

    While this is an obvious thing to point to, I think it really shows how important school is when growing up. My stepdad went to an all white school in the 50s in the Deep South. My dad went to an integrated school in the 70s/80s in North Carolina. My stepdad was growing up during a civil rights movement and likely witnessed protests both peaceful and violent. I have no doubt his parents influenced him what to think but he also had no integrated interaction during that time to oppose what he was hearing. While my dad on the other end of the spectrum, he grew up and was bullied in school, but there was one kid that stuck up for him, and he was a black kid. There isnít a doubt in my mind that, that moment, was pivotal in his views on people. When I was going through school I was very shy and reserved, and the first kids that ever approached to try to become friends were black kids. So growing up I always gravitated towards black people because of that one interaction. And then of course growing up playing sports only furthered that.

    I will always believe that positive interactions can sway viewpoints just like negative interactions will. Now that Iím married to a black woman my stepdad has become a lot more friendly and less contentious towards the way I act and to my wife, his daughter and her daughters have done a complete 180 from where they were prior to us getting married. Part of that might be because I joined the military like his biological son did who unfortunately died in a car accident at a young age and heís proud of me for that but I think more importantly a large part of it is the way my wife interacts with them.

  9. #204
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    Further evidence of why over 1k people per month are moving from Washington (mostly NW Washington) to Idaho. What a disaster. I donít know whatís more disturbing, the anarchy or the response from the mayor and governor.

  10. #205
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    wait are we getting Colin?

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Further evidence of why over 1k people per month are moving from Washington (mostly NW Washington) to Idaho. What a disaster. I donít know whatís more disturbing, the anarchy or the response from the mayor and governor.
    They're after your potatoes.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    They're after your potatoes.
    I canít help, other than pointing them to the grocery store.

  13. #208
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    I may have missed something, but did 75 year old Martin Gugino not fall backwards against concrete? If so, I would warn against anyone trying that as part of a stunt. If you've ever landed with the back of your head hitting concrete or ice, you know that the odds of succumbing to injury are quite relevant. And no doubt, a person of 75, unless in top shape, may have less chance of quick response as they fall.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    I regards to body cams. I read a study they did with them. Do those that just want the result. It determined that they don’t really accurately show what happened in a incident. It was food for the words used but that was about it.

    During the study they showed a mix of regular people and police officers video footage of a staged incident and asked at the end of the clip. We’re the police justified in this use of force ? Most said no.

    Then they showed the exact sensation for other angles. And the perception changed - a lot.

    They ca me to the result it would take approx 40+ Cameras and angles to accurate show what really happened in an incident.

    It was really cool. I will try to find it or a link to it. It was eye opening For sure.

    But. I do like the idea of cameras or at least recording equipment as it keeps everyone, on all sides, polite. And again, looking at studies it clears police more often than convicts them. Anything that helps with accurate recall of events without relying on memory and bias alone is a good thring. That autism shows you still have to be very careful with seeing one depiction of an event.
    We are just in the last couple decades getting to the point where we have one recording. Think 40 angles is pretty far away.

    Did they mention how much better 1 recording is than a eye witness? Eye witness is lacking LOTS of detail even in the best of situations.

    Govt reports are what we currently get which is essentially taking eye witness, filtering out what the cops do not want us to know and then the politicians filtering out even more things they do not want us to know,
    Last edited by Hadez; 06-12-2020 at 01:47 PM.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I may have missed something, but did 75 year old Martin Gugino not fall backwards against concrete? If so, I would warn against anyone trying that as part of a stunt. If you've ever landed with the back of your head hitting concrete or ice, you know that the odds of succumbing to injury are quite relevant. And no doubt, a person of 75, unless in top shape, may have less chance of quick response as they fall.
    Can, Iím having a hard time with people seemingly excusing his behavior. Would you do that to riot control police? Iím guessing you probably know it would be an incredibly stupid idea.
    I donít think itís black and white the police officer was trying to harm him. He pushed him with one hand.

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