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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    While it’s true that police aren’t only unjustly killing black people, that isn’t the point in all of this. Trying to compare the situations aren’t going to get any results. But the truth is, the media doesn’t push those stories and while there should be just as much outrage around them, now isn’t the time to say well it happens to white people too, because it honestly probably isn’t happening at the rate it happens to black people. And I disagree with those of you comparing it to your jobs, athletes are on tv for millions across the world to see, there is a real platform to create change for them. Silence IS compliance and silence will never bring about the changes that need to be made.

    But these protests aren’t just about police brutality, yes that’s a big part of it because it brought everything to the forefront but the protests are about the systemic racism that is rampant in the country. I shouldn’t get strange looks or hear whispers when I go out in town with my wife and 2 daughters. I shouldn’t have to watch my daughters go through an identity crisis because people from both races don’t accept that they are biracial. I shouldn’t have to let them know that they’re going to have work so much harder than an under qualified candidate for a job because they’re seen as a black woman despite being biracial. I shouldn’t have to teach my 2 daughters to fear for their life when they get pulled over because of the color of their skin. I shouldn’t have to bring them inside when they’re playing outside and a cop drives by because he thinks they might have a gun in their hand. I shouldn’t have to fear for them going on a jog that someone might follow them around and murder them in broad daylight.

    The racism needs to stop. There are no comparisons to be made.
    Further to....I want to speak more directly to your significant post. For those of us who have been pretty much immune from any real form of comparative discrimination, there's a saying that I think of....."walk a mile in my shoes". And unless those of us who are quite fortunate ever walk that mile, we must be careful how we present our side of the story, because for me, it is a side lacking much in the way of experience. Therefore it is a side that requires research and listening to those who actually walk it.

  2. #32
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    A bit of a side bar....the importance of video.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
    So just shut up and play huh? Well without these players you feel should just shut up and play....there would be not nfl....this board would not exist.

    #sorrythatwonthappen
    #listenandlearn
    #sorrynotsorry
    Are you open to every employee on every side of an issue to express their opinions at work or is just one group? That's why most employers frown on it.

    BTW......This board has rules about religious and political discussions, as well......For good reason.
    Last edited by BroncoBreeder; 06-06-2020 at 02:02 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlimburg View Post
    And that is the issue, not just with this debate, but every politically charged debate. People want conversation, people want acceptance, people want tolerance, BUT, only if they share the same points of view as them. It's sad that the political landscape with personal and identity politics is rampant in America, because there is no chance of actually moving forward with any issue. Especially when those who make the most noise often times create the false sense of being the overwhelming majority and voice for all, when they are actually not, hence the previous "shock" election result.
    It's ok to be different, it's ok to have different points of view. That's what makes America great!! We will NEVER have a one mind attitude, everyone will have an issue with something. Police brutality is a real thing that absolutely needs dealt with. But, we can NOT put all police officers on trial either. There are far more good hearted men and women than there are power hungry racists.

    I don't know what the answer is, maybe farther mental examinations. Certainly deeper background checks with regards to complaints on an officer. I do know that completely disbanding the police force is ludicrous. We need law and order.

    One thing that I will always hold onto is the fact that if you don't resist arrest you won't find yourself in life threatening situations. White, black, red, yellow, pink, purple... I don't care what your color is, just don't resist arrest. If you feel like you were wronged, the court will determine that.

    As far as Floyd goes, to my knowledge he refused to get into the police car?? If I'm wrong I apologise but that is my understanding. And if that is indeed the situation, had he just done what the officers asked he'd still be alive. That does not excuse the acts by the cop, he deserves every single second of time and treatment he has coming. The other cops on the scene should have helped George and imo, they are going to get off too light. Nobody deserves to die needlessly by the cops. We have a judicial system that is supposed to fix wrong doing. That is in itself twisted and not perfect but it's far better than almost all countries.

    In the end, like I said earlier resisting arrest doesn't do you any favors. I know it's easy to say and when under the influence your pride and attitude can be swayed. Police brutality needs to stop but we also have to do our own parts and cooperate when asked/demanded to

    My two cents

  5. #35
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    Honestly guys most places of work dont allow for protesting , politicizing ect...I think it's in bad taste tbh. It does nothing but drive wedges with co - workers and makes the working environment hostile. Some people can handle it but some go overboard and get too emotional.

    Personally when I watch sports I dont want to hear anything but sports . It's gotten to the point where you cant even give your opinion without being fired or told to shut the blank up .

    Drew Brees as a good example. He was asked about HIS opinion and he gave it . So what if you dont agree with it . With Totalerism comes agreement , with democracy comes disagreement. Nothing wrong with that , it a good thing.

    My question is if my brother finds it offensive what am I to do ? Should I do it anyways , is there another way to be vocal about my feelings ? This is the reason politics , religion and protesting things should be refrained from work .

    That being said if the NFL allows kneeling I will still watch it . It's not going to upset me to the point where I quit watching , I hope . I'd have no problem if the NFL had a commercial before every game to announce their stance on equality in America .

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    It's ok to be different, it's ok to have different points of view. That's what makes America great!! We will NEVER have a one mind attitude, everyone will have an issue with something. Police brutality is a real thing that absolutely needs dealt with. But, we can NOT put all police officers on trial either. There are far more good hearted men and women than there are power hungry racists.

    I don't know what the answer is, maybe farther mental examinations. Certainly deeper background checks with regards to complaints on an officer. I do know that completely disbanding the police force is ludicrous. We need law and order.

    One thing that I will always hold onto is the fact that if you don't resist arrest you won't find yourself in life threatening situations. White, black, red, yellow, pink, purple... I don't care what your color is, just don't resist arrest. If you feel like you were wronged, the court will determine that.

    As far as Floyd goes, to my knowledge he refused to get into the police car?? If I'm wrong I apologise but that is my understanding. And if that is indeed the situation, had he just done what the officers asked he'd still be alive. That does not excuse the acts by the cop, he deserves every single second of time and treatment he has coming. The other cops on the scene should have helped George and imo, they are going to get off too light. Nobody deserves to die needlessly by the cops. We have a judicial system that is supposed to fix wrong doing. That is in itself twisted and not perfect but it's far better than almost all countries.

    In the end, like I said earlier resisting arrest doesn't do you any favors. I know it's easy to say and when under the influence your pride and attitude can be swayed. Police brutality needs to stop but we also have to do our own parts and cooperate when asked/demanded to

    My two cents
    From what I understand is he stiffened up . No matter what though like you said it should have never went down like that . He acted maliciously with unnecessary force . The other officers there are guilty as well. They have an obligation. I dont care what a dirt bag he was as that's not even relevant because he had cuffs on and should have been tossed in the cruiser. One of the officers should have intervened and took control and said hey I got this . Would have saved a life and saved careers. However then we find out that Chauvin was in charge of training them . With his personnel file it shocks me .

    Each dept has a UOF policy they follow and clearly he wasnt within policy. Now media will push the idea that innocent people are killed all the time by LEO , which just isnt the case . If you look at the amount of LEO and see how much contact is made the bad unjustified dealings are a small percentage.

  7. #37
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    Also I'd like to add a thank you to the Mods in charge for allowing this discussion. As long as people dont belittle one another it's a good thing .

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    Honestly guys most places of work dont allow for protesting , politicizing ect...I think it's in bad taste tbh. It does nothing but drive wedges with co - workers and makes the working environment hostile. Some people can handle it but some go overboard and get too emotional.

    Personally when I watch sports I dont want to hear anything but sports . It's gotten to the point where you cant even give your opinion without being fired or told to shut the blank up .

    Drew Brees as a good example. He was asked about HIS opinion and he gave it . So what if you dont agree with it . With Totalerism comes agreement , with democracy comes disagreement. Nothing wrong with that , it a good thing.

    My question is if my brother finds it offensive what am I to do ? Should I do it anyways , is there another way to be vocal about my feelings ? This is the reason politics , religion and protesting things should be refrained from work .

    That being said if the NFL allows kneeling I will still watch it . It's not going to upset me to the point where I quit watching , I hope . I'd have no problem if the NFL had a commercial before every game to announce their stance on equality in America .
    Drew Brees is an interesting case. I completely understand his point of view, and I donít agree with those that have been so vehemently against what he said because Drew isnít racist imo. The issue with the statement is the same issue when the kneeling protests started, the kneeling was never about the military or disrespecting the vets who have fought for this country or disrespecting the flag. The kneeling was done to bring attention to police brutality and injustice.

    And the real issue with his statement is that after all these years and countless explanations, he still didnít get it. As he said he completely missed the mark. This wouldnít have received nearly as much attention otherwise. Twitter posts and media answers only go so far to bring light on the subject. Kneeling during the anthem is guaranteed to bring attention to the issue whether right or wrong. And whether right or wrong the conversation has to start somewhere.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Drew Brees is an interesting case. I completely understand his point of view, and I don’t agree with those that have been so vehemently against what he said because Drew isn’t racist imo. The issue with the statement is the same issue when the kneeling protests started, the kneeling was never about the military or disrespecting the vets who have fought for this country or disrespecting the flag. The kneeling was done to bring attention to police brutality and injustice.

    And the real issue with his statement is that after all these years and countless explanations, he still didn’t get it. As he said he completely missed the mark. This wouldn’t have received nearly as much attention otherwise. Twitter posts and media answers only go so far to bring light on the subject. Kneeling during the anthem is guaranteed to bring attention to the issue whether right or wrong. And whether right or wrong the conversation has to start somewhere.
    I have been a fan of Brees for a long time, and I respect him for all he does, for so many good causes. The fact that, as you say, he didn't get it, set me back a little. His response would have been more acceptable a few years back, but given this environment, and all the pain and sensitivity, I just can't grasp why he said it. I am sure he knows how it might offend his mates, and so many others, but he said it. His apology did sound respectful, but I just don't get why he had to even get into the situation if he was so quick to counter it. Like he isn't reading the situation, and I believe him to be smarter than that.

    He could have stuck by what he said, knowing he was going to offend many others, or he could have thought it through more wisely in the first place. The apology, if completely legit, would not have been necessary. And even though folks say they accept it, for me personally, I need time to get back to where I was as a fan. As I say, just a very confusing judgement call by someone who seems so wise, and sensitive.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    Also I'd like to add a thank you to the Mods in charge for allowing this discussion. As long as people dont belittle one another it's a good thing .
    Agreed....This is the first time I've seen this.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    It's ok to be different, it's ok to have different points of view. That's what makes America great!! We will NEVER have a one mind attitude, everyone will have an issue with something. Police brutality is a real thing that absolutely needs dealt with. But, we can NOT put all police officers on trial either. There are far more good hearted men and women than there are power hungry racists.

    I don't know what the answer is, maybe farther mental examinations. Certainly deeper background checks with regards to complaints on an officer. I do know that completely disbanding the police force is ludicrous. We need law and order.

    One thing that I will always hold onto is the fact that if you don't resist arrest you won't find yourself in life threatening situations. White, black, red, yellow, pink, purple... I don't care what your color is, just don't resist arrest. If you feel like you were wronged, the court will determine that.

    As far as Floyd goes, to my knowledge he refused to get into the police car?? If I'm wrong I apologise but that is my understanding. And if that is indeed the situation, had he just done what the officers asked he'd still be alive. That does not excuse the acts by the cop, he deserves every single second of time and treatment he has coming. The other cops on the scene should have helped George and imo, they are going to get off too light. Nobody deserves to die needlessly by the cops. We have a judicial system that is supposed to fix wrong doing. That is in itself twisted and not perfect but it's far better than almost all countries.

    In the end, like I said earlier resisting arrest doesn't do you any favors. I know it's easy to say and when under the influence your pride and attitude can be swayed. Police brutality needs to stop but we also have to do our own parts and cooperate when asked/demanded to

    My two cents
    It was excessive anyway you look at it. It honestly seems easier to kill someone as a cop than it is to kill someone as a member of the armed forces during a war. Police officers have to offer very little to get off in these instances and many times they canít even do that so they resort to lying. Look at the Breonna Taylor case, Iím not saying they were wrong for shooting back after being fired upon, but everything leading up to that moment was grossly mishandled, especially when they had already apprehended the primary suspect and a few others thought to be involved.

    At the end of the day though the only way to stop officers from using excessive force when it isnít needed is for the other officers to police themselves. And when these incidents do happen, there has to be stronger repercussions for them. They have to be held to a higher standard. I would allow the death penalty to be an option for the officers in the Floyd case, at the least for Chauvin. A message needs to be sent that this will not be tolerated. He likely wouldnít receive it but having it on the table does send a message. No amount of training is going to weed out the bad apples. There were 3 other officers there that couldíve prevented what happened with Floyd. 2 actively helped while one did crowd control, this wasnít just excessive force, this was a public execution and for what? Because he used a counterfeit 20 to buy some cigarettes?

    Edit: not disagreeing with what you said, resisting definitely doesnít do you any favors. But to play devils advocate, sometimes cooperating doesnít help much either as interrogators have become very proficient at getting people to admit to things they never did.
    Last edited by beastlyskronk; 06-06-2020 at 04:35 PM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    Drew Brees is an interesting case. I completely understand his point of view, and I don’t agree with those that have been so vehemently against what he said because Drew isn’t racist imo. The issue with the statement is the same issue when the kneeling protests started, the kneeling was never about the military or disrespecting the vets who have fought for this country or disrespecting the flag. The kneeling was done to bring attention to police brutality and injustice.

    And the real issue with his statement is that after all these years and countless explanations, he still didn’t get it. As he said he completely missed the mark. This wouldn’t have received nearly as much attention otherwise. Twitter posts and media answers only go so far to bring light on the subject. Kneeling during the anthem is guaranteed to bring attention to the issue whether right or wrong. And whether right or wrong the conversation has to start somewhere.
    In my experience, football players kneeling on a football field is never a sign of disrespect. On the contrary, before, during or after practice if Coach wants to talk to the team he says, "Bring it in and take a knee." Taking a knee is attentive. When an injury occurs, players on the field take a knee which shows care and respect.

    I've been watching pro football games for fifty-six years, and I've seen guys on the sideline during the National Anthem doing stuff less circumspect than taking a knee. Making it about the flag and the military was intended to distract from the issue with which we're still dealing. If I recall correctly, some active duty members of the military said they saw no problem with it.

    Drew Brees, Vic Fangio and others are listening and learning as are many of us. Being insensitive, close-minded and rationalizing right now doesn't seem likely to help. Racism has been a problem here long before the United States became an independent country.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    It was excessive anyway you look at it. It honestly seems easier to kill someone as a cop than it is to kill someone as a member of the armed forces during a war. Police officers have to offer very little to get off in these instances and many times they canít even do that so they resort to lying. Look at the Breonna Taylor case, Iím not saying they were wrong for shooting back after being fired upon, but everything leading up to that moment was grossly mishandled, especially when they had already apprehended the primary suspect and a few others thought to be involved.

    At the end of the day though the only way to stop officers from using excessive force when it isnít needed is for the other officers to police themselves. And when these incidents do happen, there has to be stronger repercussions for them. They have to be held to a higher standard. I would allow the death penalty to be an option for the officers in the Floyd case, at the least for Chauvin. A message needs to be sent that this will not be tolerated. He likely wouldnít receive it but having it on the table does send a message. No amount of training is going to weed out the bad apples. There were 3 other officers there that couldíve prevented what happened with Floyd. 2 actively helped while one did crowd control, this wasnít just excessive force, this was a public execution and for what? Because he used a counterfeit 20 to buy some cigarettes?

    Edit: not disagreeing with what you said, resisting definitely doesnít do you any favors. But to play devils advocate, sometimes cooperating doesnít help much either as interrogators have become very proficient at getting people to admit to things they never did.
    I agree with all of this, I'm not supporting brutal police tactics in any way. More aggressive punishment and better ways to track who are the bad cops need to happen. Some cops are so corrupt that just obeying them probably won't matter either, but lots of murders or brutal beatings could be avoided by just simply not fighting back... That's all I was getting at

  14. #44
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    I can't fault Elway for waiting to put out a statement. Given the current state of everything going on, sometimes it's better to take a little time before giving your input. He said in his statement, he wanted to hear what others had to say, to learn about what they went through, before making a statement.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    In my experience, football players kneeling on a football field is never a sign of disrespect. On the contrary, before, during or after practice if Coach wants to talk to the team he says, "Bring it in and take a knee." Taking a knee is attentive. When an injury occurs, players on the field take a knee which shows care and respect.

    I've been watching pro football games for fifty-six years, and I've seen guys on the sideline during the National Anthem doing stuff less circumspect than taking a knee. Making it about the flag and the military was intended to distract from the issue with which we're still dealing. If I recall correctly, some active duty members of the military said they saw no problem with it.

    Drew Brees, Vic Fangio and others are listening and learning as are many of us. Being insensitive, close-minded and rationalizing right now doesn't seem likely to help. Racism has been a problem here long before the United States became an independent country.
    Apparently it was Retired Army Green Beret Nate Boyer (who had a short stint in The NFL) who first convinced Colin Kaepernick to kneel (if he was not going to stand) during the national anthem, saying it was a sign of respectfulness.

    ".....and in my experience, kneeling's never been in our history really seen as a disrespectful act. I mean, people kneel when they get knighted. You kneel to propose to your wife, and you take a knee to pray. And soldiers often take a knee in front of a fallen brother's grave to pay respects. So I thought, if anything, besides standing, that was the most respectful. But, of course, that's just my opinion."
    Last edited by CanDB; 06-06-2020 at 06:05 PM.

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