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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Can, Iím having a hard time with people seemingly excusing his behavior. Would you do that to riot control police? Iím guessing you probably know it would be an incredibly stupid idea.
    I donít think itís black and white the police officer was trying to harm him. He pushed him with one hand.
    Yes, of course he played his part in this. He put himself in that position, absolutely. But I donít think that excuses the officer either. There were other ways to handle the situation.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Can, I’m having a hard time with people seemingly excusing his behavior. Would you do that to riot control police? I’m guessing you probably know it would be an incredibly stupid idea.
    I don’t think it’s black and white the police officer was trying to harm him. He pushed him with one hand.
    Some of my "concern" revolves around conspiracy theories, and their source. Yes, I believe some older folks, who are known to be avid protesters, can appear difficult, but until there's evidence that he was being hard to control, I don't buy it. IF he in fact has suffered head injuries, this is a terrible example of how to treat elderly folks, even if a tiny bit unruly. Heck, I've been around old folks who can be a pain, but I would not push them backwards, unless we are talking something very unusual.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Some of my "concern" revolves around conspiracy theories, and their source. Yes, I believe some older folks, who are known to be avid protesters, can appear difficult, but until there's evidence that he was being hard to control, I don't buy it. IF he in fact has suffered head injuries, this is a terrible example of how to treat elderly folks, even if a tiny bit unruly. Heck, I've been around old folks who can be a pain, but I would not push them backwards, unless we are talking something very unusual.
    Well I will cordially disagree with you. What you see as ďa tiny bit unrulyĒ, I see as incredibly stupid.
    Before I judge what that officer did I ask myself if I would do the same thing that guy did? No I absolutely wouldnít unless I was ready for a fight.
    Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Well I will cordially disagree with you. What you see as “a tiny bit unruly”, I see as incredibly stupid.
    Before I judge what that officer did I ask myself if I would do the same thing that guy did? No I absolutely wouldn’t unless I was ready for a fight.
    Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
    I am not saying I am 100% backing the man, but are you ok with shoving elderly folks, who may be talking too much? Lets wait and see what the final outcome is, but if he has done little more than be a pain, I have compassion for him. Why not just take him aside? Was there a big group around him that needed to be pushed back? Not that I saw.

    It's cool. At this point, based on what I know (which may not be nearly enough), I disagree with you as well.

  5. #215
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    I really appreciate being able to discuss this topic in here. Thank you mods
    Red 98

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  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I am not saying I am 100% backing the man, but are you ok with shoving elderly folks, who may be talking too much? Lets wait and see what the final outcome is, but if he has done little more than be a pain, I have compassion for him. Why not just take him aside? Was there a big group around him that needed to be pushed back? Not that I saw.

    It's cool. At this point, based on what I know (which may not be nearly enough), I disagree with you as well.
    I would agree with you if talking was all he was doing, but that isnít what he was doing. He was waving an electronic device in front of the chest of several of them. Even for a young person that should be understood as stupid, not to mention someone who has been around long enough to know better.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    I would agree with you if talking was all he was doing, but that isn’t what he was doing. He was waving an electronic device in front of the chest of several of them. Even for a young person that should be understood as stupid, not to mention someone who has been around long enough to know better.
    Is this a proven fact, and if so, is it a crime or not? Because I have yet to hear that.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Is this a proven fact, and if so, is it a crime or not? Because I have yet to hear that.
    I guess you didnít see the video posted in this thread of him doing it? Itís pretty clear what he was doing. What his motive was I donít know, but I can see why the officer reacted the way he did.
    Was the officers reaction excessive? I donít know and unless youíre trained in that sort of a thing neither do you. The issue is if the officer felt they were at risk because of the actions of the elderly man.
    Was what the old man was doing incredibly stupid? Absolutely.
    Last edited by Al Wilson 4 Mayor; 06-12-2020 at 05:10 PM.

  9. #219
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    It was stupid why? Because the police might beat him up?

    Cuz that's the issue
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  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    It was stupid why? Because the police might beat him up?

    Cuz that's the issue
    Itís stupid because they donít know if what heís doing is threatening them.

    Iím sorry if I seem calloused about it. I really do hope heís ok. But if you go waving an electronics device in front of a police officerís chest you should expect to be restrained, not have a conversation over tea.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    It was stupid why? Because the police might beat him up?

    Cuz that's the issue
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    It’s stupid because they don’t know if what he’s doing is threatening them.

    I’m sorry if I seem calloused about it. I really do hope he’s ok. But if you go waving an electronics device in front of a police officer’s chest you should expect to be restrained, not have a conversation over tea.
    So I am going to ask....did it appear like they grabbed his "device" from him, because if it was perceived as a problem, would that not have been one of the very first steps?

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    I guess you didnít see the video posted in this thread of him doing it? Itís pretty clear what he was doing. What his motive was I donít know, but I can see why the officer reacted the way he did.
    Was the officers reaction excessive? I donít know and unless youíre trained in that sort of a thing neither do you. The issue is if the officer felt they were at risk because of the actions of the elderly man.
    Was what the old man was doing incredibly stupid? Absolutely.
    What is causing them to feel at risk when theyíre kitted up like that? The only credible thing I could think of off the top of my head would be a bomb. Even if you can think of something else, I canít think of any scenario where continuing to move toward the potential threat is the smartest decision to make.

    I donít think they felt threatened at all. I also donít believe they intended for the end result to be what it was. I believe both parties are at fault, but I also believe police should be held to a higher standard than a regular protester. If they could go back Iím pretty sure they wouldíve had someone pull him off to the side (figuratively speaking) and talk to him.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    So I am going to ask....did it appear like they grabbed his "device" from him, because if it was perceived as a problem, would that not have been one of the very first steps?
    Thatís a reasonable expectation.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    What is causing them to feel at risk when theyíre kitted up like that? The only credible thing I could think of off the top of my head would be a bomb. Even if you can think of something else, I canít think of any scenario where continuing to move toward the potential threat is the smartest decision to make.

    I donít think they felt threatened at all. I also donít believe they intended for the end result to be what it was. I believe both parties are at fault, but I also believe police should be held to a higher standard than a regular protester. If they could go back Iím pretty sure they wouldíve had someone pull him off to the side (figuratively speaking) and talk to him.
    I agree with everything you said here, with one exception. I believe itís possible to feel threatened. He might have been trying to steal information from their phones, or he could have been using something that would ruin any electronic device.

  15. #225
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    It makes me wonder, do people desire to become victims?

    The old guy was probably thinking, ""My white privilege will save me,"" or "I really NEED to complete my objective."

    I don't know; my immigrant parents raised me never to be aggressive towards cops because it will never end well for me.

    Even without knowing English, my parents still have faith in the American system and prefer it over Narco-Mexico.

    "Defund cops!"

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