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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzerpete View Post
    It makes me wonder, do people desire to become victims?

    The old guy was probably thinking, ""My white privilege will save me,"" or "I really NEED to complete my objective."

    I don't know; my immigrant parents raised me never to be aggressive towards cops because it will never end well for me.

    Even without knowing English, my parents still have faith in the American system and prefer it over Narco-Mexico.

    "Defund cops!"
    You see, I thought this may be more along the lines of it. Not necessarily the white privilege but maybe becoming a martyr for the cause

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    I guess you didn’t see the video posted in this thread of him doing it? It’s pretty clear what he was doing. What his motive was I don’t know, but I can see why the officer reacted the way he did.
    Was the officers reaction excessive? I don’t know and unless you’re trained in that sort of a thing neither do you. The issue is if the officer felt they were at risk because of the actions of the elderly man.
    Was what the old man was doing incredibly stupid? Absolutely.
    When cops are clearly pushing protesters/looters back you would expect anyone that did what the elderly man did to be pushed back, and had it been a person half the age it would have been with a lot less force. Pushing the man back and him falling is not the issue - what might be an issue when you see things from the first angle promoted is that he was not being tended to immidiately, but other angles show that the officers behind the initial line takes care of the man.

    Unlike many other situations this man provoked a response - got a totally appropriate response and appears to have been injured a lot worse than anyone could have expected.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Z View Post

    Sorry mods if you feel this isnít the right place or time but I wanted to share for those who may not have a twitter account cough*peytonmanninng*cough. Anyway, way to go John, once a leader always a leader!
    While you can hope that Elway's, Lock's.. and others decisions to play along with with the oppression narritive improves locker room function, the scary part is what management will do of feel good measures and where the lline is drawn between "social justice politics" and the merit based management of the football operations.

    There were articles about racial injustice when VJ was fired after delivering the worst 2 year stretch in over 40 years, and we constantly have talk about black coaches. In very simple terms if a group of employees are not hired at the same rate as their skills jusitfies, those who were given the same opportunities from those minorities would outperform the other groups. There have been many black head coaches and as a proportion they have not had success on par with the average NFL HC, so that would suggest that too many are hired based on race not skill.

    I did not understand why Eric Studesville did not get more options, because his interaction with the team at the end of 2010 seemed to provide better football that what John Fox produced in 2011 - especially the offense. VJ was clearly lost at game speed, and I have no clue if he was brilliant in the video room but it was not pretty.

    I hope that the team follows Vic Fangio's line of basing things on merit and not percieved victimhood.

  4. #229
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    Pathetic........Seattle was taken over by a bunch of dudes wearing man-buns and skinny jeans.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    You see, I thought this may be more along the lines of it. Not necessarily the white privilege but maybe becoming a martyr for the cause
    I believe he wanted to virtue signal his solidarity to folks who couldn't care less about him.

    Antifa doesn't care about Americans or BLM.
    BLM recently stated Antifa hijacked their message.
    It's all a power grab like in Seattle.

    Heck, even Trayvon Martin's mother is calling for more police, not less.
    A new Floyd video shows him restrained by three officers supposedly over counterfeit money.
    Where is Floyd's accountability throughout this incident?

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzerpete View Post
    I believe he wanted to virtue signal his solidarity to folks who couldn't care less about him.

    Antifa doesn't care about Americans or BLM.
    BLM recently stated Antifa hijacked their message.
    It's all a power grab like in Seattle.

    Heck, even Trayvon Martin's mother is calling for more police, not less.
    A new Floyd video shows him restrained by three officers supposedly over counterfeit money.
    Where is Floyd's accountability throughout this incident?
    Cops rarely respond to calls for counterfeit money, and even then it would be incredibly difficult to prove that he knew it was counterfeit.

    I donít think police themselves are the problem, I think the training and the culture within the departments are the problem.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    What is causing them to feel at risk when theyíre kitted up like that? The only credible thing I could think of off the top of my head would be a bomb. Even if you can think of something else, I canít think of any scenario where continuing to move toward the potential threat is the smartest decision to make.

    I donít think they felt threatened at all. I also donít believe they intended for the end result to be what it was. I believe both parties are at fault, but I also believe police should be held to a higher standard than a regular protester. If they could go back Iím pretty sure they wouldíve had someone pull him off to the side (figuratively speaking) and talk to him.
    It is obvious the old man instigated the confrontation.

    Even if they felt threatened, itís their job to move toward the threat when possible. God forbid one day you need them and they decide to avoid the threat.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I wonít Back Down.
    No Matter How Stupid Your Comments Are!
    Still Not Backing Down!!!

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    When cops are clearly pushing protesters/looters back you would expect anyone that did what the elderly man did to be pushed back, and had it been a person half the age it would have been with a lot less force. Pushing the man back and him falling is not the issue - what might be an issue when you see things from the first angle promoted is that he was not being tended to immidiately, but other angles show that the officers behind the initial line takes care of the man.

    Unlike many other situations this man provoked a response - got a totally appropriate response and appears to have been injured a lot worse than anyone could have expected.
    Two things....until it is proven that the Mr. Gugino was up to no good, and I don't mean being a bit of a pain, some of this sounds like another conspiracy theory gone wrong. Like keeping children locked up in a pizza joint....

    Second, you seem to be implying that he got what he deserved.....landing head to concrete. Before you say it was him that made it worse, again, was there a need to shove him backwardsÖ.because we do not seem to hear about him being a "threat". My gut tells me that if I was in public and an elderly man was a bit of a pain, I would not push him backwards like that, because if anyone saw and put on video, I would be likely charged for assault or whatever, and pending his medical situation, I could be in big trouble. And I would get little sympathy from the public.

    Until there's evidence of being a real threat, the appropriate response would be to withhold him, and explain that he will be cuffed if he does not back off. Shoving him when few others were around, seems like a bowling ball going after one pin, an old pin.

    Again, did anyone see the police take his device at the outset??
    Last edited by CanDB; 06-13-2020 at 08:59 AM.

  9. #234
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    We are in unprecedented times here. What happened to Floyd is tragic and should NEVER happen to anyone. We CAN NOT let a rogue act of an individual change how we proceed with law and order though. Minneapolis counsel has voted to disband their police force!!! Are you kidding me?!?!?! More than likely the mayor will not proceed with it but that is absolutely ridiculous!! I sure hope and pray that the people that live in that city don't need help WHEN crime takes place. ANYONE who thinks that we don't need a police force are completely brain washed at this point....pure and simple

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I am not saying I am 100% backing the man, but are you ok with shoving elderly folks, who may be talking too much? Lets wait and see what the final outcome is, but if he has done little more than be a pain, I have compassion for him. Why not just take him aside? Was there a big group around him that needed to be pushed back? Not that I saw.

    It's cool. At this point, based on what I know (which may not be nearly enough), I disagree with you as well.
    Even if we take away all the crap he was doing with his cell phone....He put himself in front of a marching platoon of riot police.....they do not stop, or break rank to politely ask him to step out of the way..... sorry he was hurt..if there is a next time maybe he will think twice and join the peaceful protesters
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  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoBreeder View Post
    Pathetic........Seattle was taken over by a bunch of dudes wearing man-buns and skinny jeans.
    Post of the day!
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  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzerpete View Post
    It makes me wonder, do people desire to become victims?

    The old guy was probably thinking, ""My white privilege will save me,"" or "I really NEED to complete my objective."

    I don't know; my immigrant parents raised me never to be aggressive towards cops because it will never end well for me.

    Even without knowing English, my parents still have faith in the American system and prefer it over Narco-Mexico.

    "Defund cops!"
    Are you a Latino?

  13. #238
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    I am not sure of the details of the Camden, New Jersey exercise, where changes were made and police had to re-apply for their jobs, but apparently it was a success in the end. So it is not a wild notion to re-establish oneself in order to get better.

    I also think "defund" is a misinterpreted word, or a word that is being used incorrectly. Some folks might assume it means take all their money away, and based on what I think is really being proposed, it is an awkward word. You need police. And if that means moving some of their basic duties to others, that fit others better, maybe it makes sense. But whether or not I am interpreting correctly, forget the word, and maybe go with rethinking the way police are performing, being trained, and so on. If that means a complete revamp in specific locations, it may be a wise decision. Good cops will keep their jobs. If need be, new ones will complement the group in place.
    Last edited by CanDB; 06-13-2020 at 10:05 AM.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Are you a Latino?
    Brilliant reasoning skills on my part, right?

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieMac View Post
    Even if we take away all the crap he was doing with his cell phone....He put himself in front of a marching platoon of riot police.....they do not stop, or break rank to politely ask him to step out of the way..... sorry he was hurt..if there is a next time maybe he will think twice and join the peaceful protesters
    Again, if I had pushed him over for the same video, with no evidence of a "threat", I would likely be in trouble. Seems like common sense not to, given what appears to be an annoying elderly man, no apparent crowd problem, and given he could have just be taken aside and even cuffed.

    I will change my take on this, IF his device was taken away, but even that could have been done without a shove.

    As an aside, who typically breaks more bones in winter, when the conditions are icy? I'm going with elderly.
    Last edited by CanDB; 06-13-2020 at 10:25 AM.

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