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  1. #166
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    Yup. It was a plant. I think someone somewhere planted someone to make it look like he was "up to no good" and then the police "overreacted" with zero regard for the "poor old 75 year old man".

    Great acting job too, busting his head on the pavement like that. Do you think crisis actors will eventually get Oscars?

    Hooray, beer!

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    The first statement from police was not that he was scanning phones. They said he tripped.

    It is obvious to me this alt fact theory involving scanning phones is just spin to make the story look different.
    The depths our politicians propaganda machines go .............. the lies are repulsive any more. Some of those machines are some peep's only source for information which is irresponsible. It's sad. Nothing new but just ramped up and more of it.

    Looks to me like the guy was trying to film the weapons they were carrying
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  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange crush75 View Post
    One issue to remember is some videos of unnecessary or excessive force are obvious. Some aren't quite that clear however. Officers are supposed to obey the UOF policies . Sometimes the actions may seem bad or not easy to take by public but the officer could be within his/her depts policy .

    I agree about taking all the info and investigating because we may only see a snippet of the video.
    A lot of what needs changing is technically 'legal'. Not just in LE. Look at campaign finance. It's all legal. As soon as these presidents get out of office they do their little talks that no one wants to hear for 250K ......20 minute speech.

    Even Senators .......when they get ousted they get these cushy lobbyist jobs with the corporations. It's all so far gone
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  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    I never hinted that shooting was race motivated, in fact my posts here claim a completely different catalyst generally. I'm not discounting the existence of racism either. Yes the video was slanted to make a point. But if you just watch the police seminar part all by itself......... it's still shocking. He basically makes it sound like if you kill a man, you're now level up! Now you're Predator! ........ only a killer can hunt a killer! And the quote -- if you have trouble pulling the trigger you need to find another job. That's miles too far..........miles and miles.

    400 white people 300 black people 150 hispanics and 150 other die each year to police shootings. 50 police die each year to felonious related shootings. There is a problem
    I did not mention you in that context.
    The right number for police killed is 85/year though.
    The clips in your video of the training seems wildly inappropriate if taken out of context, as many things do, and it is presented with the intend that it should not be taken in the context where it is presented. Police would have to be trained in both the ugly stuff and the stuff that wouls seem beneign.
    As has been said the psyche of the individual police officer is a key aspect. I don't see that the police officer that shot acted with any malice, but from what we saw and could hear it is hard to belive that his reaction was appropriate, though the shooting victim is told not to touch his gun and the last thing he says before being shot is that he had to touch it.
    Either the officer was unfit for the job or the victim did something that would scare any officer.

  5. #170
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    I think a good phrase for these days would be, "cooler heads will prevail." And I think our theme song should be Michael Jackson's, "The Man in the Mirror"
    JMO

  6. #171
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    Should the police be held to a higher, lower or the same standard as everyone else? Did the Buffalo policemen who pushed Martin Gugino, causing him to fall and sending him to the hospital, do so intentionally or accidentally? If the incident hadn't been caught on video, we wouldn't know about it.

    If an ordinary citizen pushed another causing great bodily harm and it was on video, could that individual be charged with assault and battery? I'm inclined to think so. Charging the officers who pushed Mr. Gugino down would probably be holding them to the same standard as the rest of us.

    Not tolerating police seriously injuring people while under orders might constitute a higher standard which would require individual policemen to be as circumspect as possible answering their promise to serve and protect regardless of peer pressure. This is one of the issues our country will be addressing as we move forward.
    Last edited by samparnell; 06-11-2020 at 07:18 AM. Reason: format
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    The depths our politicians propaganda machines go .............. the lies are repulsive any more. Some of those machines are some peep's only source for information which is irresponsible. It's sad. Nothing new but just ramped up and more of it.

    Looks to me like the guy was trying to film the weapons they were carrying
    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post

    Or maybe you can explain what he is doing? I can't after seeng it. His actions were not brief or random.
    I can spin endless stories about what he was doing. The first fork in the path of the story is what he moving his phone purposely or was it just random hand gestures? The possibilities of what he was doing are endless. My opinion is I could play this guessing "game" but essentially anyone trying to guess at what he is doing is just projecting what they want him to be doing because of the lack of information.
    Last edited by Hadez; 06-11-2020 at 08:00 AM.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by MH Stampede View Post
    Which is a possibility.

    but that doesnt answer the question as to why he was doing whatever he was doing, instead of obeying the police instructions to clear the streat?
    It amazes me just how many times I see police officers trying to establish control of the situation and just how many ways I see people resist the police in one way or another. More often than not we see bad results when people start to assert their control and their will over the police instead of allowing police to do their job and have a discussion later.

    In some cases I still expect police to react better to someone not obeying. I think if we did a Pareto chart of all the bad police interactions with the public we will see the number 1 thing in common is people were not doing what the police were telling them to do.
    Last edited by Hadez; 06-11-2020 at 08:10 AM.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Should the police be held to a higher, lower or the same standard as everyone else? Did the Buffalo policemen who pushed Martin Gugino, causing him to fall and sending him to the hospital, do so intentionally or accidentally? If the incident hadn't been caught on video, we wouldn't know about it.

    If an ordinary citizen pushed another causing great bodily harm and it was on video, could that individual be charged with assault and battery? I'm inclined to think so. Charging the officers who pushed Mr. Gugino down would probably be holding them to the same standard as the rest of us.

    Not tolerating police seriously injuring people while under orders might constitute a higher standard which would require individual policemen to be as circumspect as possible answering their promise to serve and protect regardless of peer pressure. This is one of the issues our country will be addressing as we move forward.
    Assault must be intentional. Battery must also be intentional. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the intent of the shove was to hurt the man.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault
    Last edited by lvbronx; 06-11-2020 at 08:19 AM.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Should the police be held to a higher, lower or the same standard as everyone else? Did the Buffalo policemen who pushed Martin Gugino, causing him to fall and sending him to the hospital, do so intentionally or accidentally? If the incident hadn't been caught on video, we wouldn't know about it.

    If an ordinary citizen pushed another causing great bodily harm and it was on video, could that individual be charged with assault and battery? I'm inclined to think so. Charging the officers who pushed Mr. Gugino down would probably be holding them to the same standard as the rest of us.

    Not tolerating police seriously injuring people while under orders might constitute a higher standard which would require individual policemen to be as circumspect as possible answering their promise to serve and protect regardless of peer pressure. This is one of the issues our country will be addressing as we move forward.
    agreed

    I am happy we have the video because the police lied about the encounter. I am sure anyone who has been looking into the excessive use of force by police realize this is not the first time police have been caught lying.

    I stand by the police more often than not. When the police step over the line they should be help accountable.

    We should also be asking ourselves right now what can we do to help the police be better trained and prepared to make better decision.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Assault must be intentional. Battery must also be intentional. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the intent of the shove was to hurt the man.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault
    based on my local laws the hard push we saw shoving an elderly man backward would apply. There is still wiggle room for lawyers to argue should it go to trial but I am pretty sure no defense lawyer in my area would want a jury to see that video.

    The question is what are the laws in Buffalo....

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadez View Post
    based on my local laws the hard push we saw shoving an elderly man backward would apply. There is still wiggle room for lawyers to argue should it go to trial but I am pretty sure no defense lawyer in my area would want a jury to see that video.

    The question is what are the laws in Buffalo....
    IMO all law enforcement personnel should wear lapel cams. I think it would eliminate finger pointing and establish the most accurate record. It would probably protect everyone involved.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvbronx View Post
    Assault must be intentional. Battery must also be intentional. The burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the intent of the shove was to hurt the man.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault
    I guess we'll find out what happens in court, if it gets that far. IDK what the statistics are, but impression is that few police officers are convicted by juries. It is possible lapel cams might change that.

  14. #179
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    While I will agree that the officer could have done something different like grab his arm and escorted him to the side and placed in cuffs or talk to him. However watch the man , hes the one instigating this contact , they give orders to get back. He refuses and continues to close the distance. I dont know what he was doing tbo and we can all speculate.

    These officers have weapons on them. I dont think it was the officers intent to push him down but a different reaction may have been better but these things happen in a flash . I dont think the outcome ends up well when someone gets that close to an officer then reaches for his equipment.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    I did not mention you in that context.
    The right number for police killed is 85/year though.
    The clips in your video of the training seems wildly inappropriate if taken out of context, as many things do, and it is presented with the intend that it should not be taken in the context where it is presented. Police would have to be trained in both the ugly stuff and the stuff that wouls seem beneign.
    As has been said the psyche of the individual police officer is a key aspect. I don't see that the police officer that shot acted with any malice, but from what we saw and could hear it is hard to belive that his reaction was appropriate, though the shooting victim is told not to touch his gun and the last thing he says before being shot is that he had to touch it.
    Either the officer was unfit for the job or the victim did something that would scare any officer.
    I said felonius related shootings ......... not traffic accidents or whatever the 85 is
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