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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoBreeder View Post
    Pathetic........Seattle was taken over by a bunch of dudes wearing man-buns and skinny jeans.
    Trivia for the day.

    To infinity...and beyond.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    It is obvious the old man instigated the confrontation.

    Even if they felt threatened, itís their job to move toward the threat when possible. God forbid one day you need them and they decide to avoid the threat.
    Not avoid the threat, but you certainly donít walk up on someone you perceive to be a threat. It may be different since theyíre riot police but with no gun the only threat I can think of would be a bomb threat and in all my training Iíve never had someone to approach a potential bomb threat.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    Two things....until it is proven that the Mr. Gugino was up to no good, and I don't mean being a bit of a pain, some of this sounds like another conspiracy theory gone wrong. Like keeping children locked up in a pizza joint....

    Second, you seem to be implying that he got what he deserved.....landing head to concrete. Before you say it was him that made it worse, again, was there a need to shove him backwardsÖ.because we do not seem to hear about him being a "threat". My gut tells me that if I was in public and an elderly man was a bit of a pain, I would not push him backwards like that, because if anyone saw and put on video, I would be likely charged for assault or whatever, and pending his medical situation, I could be in big trouble. And I would get little sympathy from the public.

    Until there's evidence of being a real threat, the appropriate response would be to withhold him, and explain that he will be cuffed if he does not back off. Shoving him when few others were around, seems like a bowling ball going after one pin, an old pin.

    Again, did anyone see the police take his device at the outset??
    You are putting forth a massive strawman argument, and really where do you get off implying that I should have even insinuated that HE GOT WHAT HE DESERVED IN HITTING HIS HEAD ON THE CONCRETE!

    It is really not worth responding to the rest of your post!

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    When cops are clearly pushing protesters/looters back you would expect anyone that did what the elderly man did to be pushed back, and had it been a person half the age it would have been with a lot less force. Pushing the man back and him falling is not the issue - what might be an issue when you see things from the first angle promoted is that he was not being tended to immidiately, but other angles show that the officers behind the initial line takes care of the man.

    Unlike many other situations this man provoked a response - got a totally appropriate response and appears to have been injured a lot worse than anyone could have expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
    You are putting forth a massive strawman argument, and really where do you get off implying that I should have even insinuated that HE GOT WHAT HE DESERVED IN HITTING HIS HEAD ON THE CONCRETE!

    It is really not worth responding to the rest of your post!
    Sorry, I may have misinterpreted based on the bolded part where you say, he got a totally appropriate response. I took that as, he got the forceful reaction that he deserved. Let me be clear, I did not really believe you meant he got what he deserved as in, landing on the back of his head. Rather, he got pushed harder than he could handle, landing backwards, which sounded like that was part of the possibilities of being involved and doing the wrong thing. For me, if you push an older person, there is a chance that they land on their backs, on concrete.

    I apologize if that's what it sounded like. But I can understand your take, given the poor wording on my part. I think some of my sensitivity to this situation is based on the fact that it bothered me to see him lying on the ground that way.

    But my argument defending his side has been from the beginning that when you push an elderly person, the consequences may include a forceful fall. And elderly folks tend to injure more often when falling, as I mentioned by the situation every year when older folks slip on ice, and break bones much easier.

    BUT based on all the posts that I've read, pro or con, I don't believe anyone here suggests he deserved to get injured. Maybe some think that his fall was a complete fluke, and I can not say otherwise. But why push him in the first place?
    Last edited by CanDB; 06-13-2020 at 01:09 PM.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I am not sure of the details of the Camden, New Jersey exercise, where changes were made and police had to re-apply for their jobs, but apparently it was a success in the end. So it is not a wild notion to re-establish oneself in order to get better.

    I also think "defund" is a misinterpreted word, or a word that is being used incorrectly. Some folks might assume it means take all their money away, and based on what I think is really being proposed, it is an awkward word. You need police. And if that means moving some of their basic duties to others, that fit others better, maybe it makes sense. But whether or not I am interpreting correctly, forget the word, and maybe go with rethinking the way police are performing, being trained, and so on. If that means a complete revamp in specific locations, it may be a wise decision. Good cops will keep their jobs. If need be, new ones will complement the group in place.
    You might want to research your Camden NJ example. I understand it is being touted as the ďway things could beĒ in recent days. But the police force was ď reformedĒ due to corruption. Dozens of cops were prosecuted for criminal activity. But most re-hired. To their credit they did change some basic community policing approaches that could be used in other cities.

    Reality is Camden still ranks in the top 10 dangerous cities in America . Better then number one of course, so tout the progress! But violent crimes did not dramatically fall just the death rate. Partly because one of the police policies changed was to take serious gunshot victims to the hospital instead of waiting for a ambulance. Thus cutting down on deaths that the Camden statistics are built upon.

    I am all for reform, have been for a couple decades. For a reduction of police brutality charges and outcomes. I wholeheartedly support an increase in based community resources and services. But trust is a two way street. Both police and far too community members have to set aside the bias and mistrust of the other and find a way to work together. It will be interesting to see if that balance can be found.

    There have to be some serious community changes for some of these ďdefund the policeĒ plans though. Letís not overlook the communities in basically every major and many smaller cities that havenít found the peace , love and unicorns vibe. The ones where social workers, utility workers, EMTs and fireman typically donít go into without police escort.

    Politicians and social justice icons can sign any initiative or law they want and celebrities can be critical and donate to any cause they want but at the end of the day in the real world real people have to take the risks on the front lines while they go home to gated communities protected by armed security.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    You might want to research your Camden NJ example. I understand it is being touted as the “way things could be” in recent days. But the police force was “ reformed” due to corruption. Dozens of cops were prosecuted for criminal activity. But most re-hired. To their credit they did change some basic community policing approaches that could be used in other cities.

    Reality is Camden still ranks in the top 10 dangerous cities in America . Better then number one of course, so tout the progress! But violent crimes did not dramatically fall just the death rate. Partly because one of the police policies changed was to take serious gunshot victims to the hospital instead of waiting for a ambulance. Thus cutting down on deaths that the Camden statistics are built upon.

    I am all for reform, have been for a couple decades. For a reduction of police brutality charges and outcomes. I wholeheartedly support an increase in based community resources and services. But trust is a two way street. Both police and far too community members have to set aside the bias and mistrust of the other and find a way to work together. It will be interesting to see if that balance can be found.

    There have to be some serious community changes for some of these “defund the police” plans though. Let’s not overlook the communities in basically every major and many smaller cities that haven’t found the peace , love and unicorns vibe. The ones where social workers, utility workers, EMTs and fireman typically don’t go into without police escort.

    Politicians and social justice icons can sign any initiative or law they want and celebrities can be critical and donate to any cause they want but at the end of the day in the real world real people have to take the risks on the front lines while they go home to gated communities protected by armed security.
    This. ^

    Every celebrity virtue signaling to "defund the police," should be required to defund their own personal security detail first.

    Police reform is a serious topic that affects all of us, and doesn't require this level of mockery.
    To infinity...and beyond.

  7. #247
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    Hmmm let's see . 9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year . That's not saying all 9 werent justified. For kicks let's assume they were . That's only 9 !! And how many were in Minnesota? ZERO !! ....let's disband the police in Minneapolis.....smh

  8. #248
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    My gut tells me that even though some of this is exaggerated, and the police in general may be getting a tough rap, and we will be seeing a lot of video that may appear to be against them when what they did was warranted....there is a real movement underway, and it will take all sorts of shapes, sizes and forms. Some folks will not like this movement because of the antics of people involved. Some will say this has been tried before. But I believe this time is for real, and too many folks of all backgrounds are tired of it. The fact Elway spoke up, as well as Goodell, as well as NASCAR, as well as many others of influence, tells me this one is going to change some things.

    And change means not everything will go as one wants it to go. In just my personal observation, I seldom saw a reorganization of any kind that suited everyone. There were often innocent casualties, as in, folks losing their jobs. BUT, the end game is what you strategize around, and if it is the right way to go, you move forward, seeking to minimize those casualties. You look out for them as best you can.

    So, not sure if others agree, but this movement reminds me more of the 60s, when people spoke up, loud and clear. It was not perfect, but the energy and the numbers were on board to make change.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    My gut tells me that even though some of this is exaggerated, and the police in general may be getting a tough rap, and we will be seeing a lot of video that may appear to be against them when what they did was warranted....there is a real movement underway, and it will take all sorts of shapes, sizes and forms. Some folks will not like this movement because of the antics of people involved. Some will say this has been tried before. But I believe this time is for real, and too many folks of all backgrounds are tired of it. The fact Elway spoke up, as well as Goodell, as well as NASCAR, as well as many others of influence, tells me this one is going to change some things.

    And change means not everything will go as one wants it to go. In just my personal observation, I seldom saw a reorganization of any kind that suited everyone. There were often innocent casualties, as in, folks losing their jobs. BUT, the end game is what you strategize around, and if it is the right way to go, you move forward, seeking to minimize those casualties. You look out for them as best you can.

    So, not sure if others agree, but this movement reminds me more of the 60s, when people spoke up, loud and clear. It was not perfect, but the energy and the numbers were on board to make change.
    I 100% support our law enforcement. Tactics need change absolutely but not to the degree where we completely disband them. That notion is absurd!! If this movement leads in that direction then I am against this movement. A world without law enforcement is anarchy and I do not want my children living in that world

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    I 100% support our law enforcement. Tactics need change absolutely but not to the degree where we completely disband them. That notion is absurd!! If this movement leads in that direction then I am against this movement. A world without law enforcement is anarchy and I do not want my children living in that world
    The movement I refer to is more specifically related to racial inequity.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    The movement I refer to is more specifically related to racial inequity.
    As much as we all want things fair and balanced, I have serious doubts that all people's are going to be seen in the same light. All races and people of color have their "black sheep" person's who make it hard to trust each other. That will never change as long as evil exists in this world

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    As much as we all want things fair and balanced, I have serious doubts that all people's are going to be seen in the same light. All races and people of color have their "black sheep" person's who make it hard to trust each other. That will never change as long as evil exists in this world
    I still think people can do better, in some cases, a lot better. If you are a citizen of any country, you should feel that you have pretty much the same rights as everyone else.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I still think people can do better, in some cases, a lot better. If you are a citizen of any country, you should feel that you have pretty much the same rights as everyone else.
    I agree with those sentiments, however, there are powers at work to keep us divided, both earthly and spiritual. Rich people are always going to feel they are more important, not all but most. Poor people are always going to feel either entitled or shamed, not all but most. Racists are always going to be racists because of the teaching they grow up in. Certain religions are always going to be at war with each other

    We can and should certainly try to be better but we need to learn from our history. Sinse the beginning of time people have been divided and always will. If anything it is harder more than ever to be United now because of technology. We can turn on any news channel and get outraged by the news being fed to us. Honestly it would be better for all of humanity if there was no media, all they do is feed off of news stories. They will do anything to get and keep people fired up because that's headlines

  14. #254
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    I stole this from Facebook, I feel it fits here....


    YOU do YOU!!!!
    Iím sick of covid-19. Iím sick of black vs. white. Iím sick of Democrats vs. Republicans. Iím sick of gay vs. straight. Iím REALLY sick of the media. Iím sick of no one being allowed to think what they want & feel what they do without offending someone. I am sick of the nosey people who call the cops when anyone does anything they donít approve of. I am sick of blaming the whole for the sins of a few.
    Weíre one raceóthe human race. You want to support President Trump? You do you. Itís your choice. You want to support Biden? Fine... also your choice! You want to believe in God? Okay, believe in God. You want to believe in magical creatures that fly around & sprinkle fairy dust to make life better? Awesome... you do you.
    BUT stop thrusting your beliefs on others & not being able to deal with the fact that they donít have the same exact mind-set as you. Having our own minds is what makes us all individual and beautiful. If you canít handle the fact that you may have a friend that has opposing views as you, then you are not any better than the bigots and the racists. I donít have to agree with everything you believe to be a decent human being & your friend.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by JvDub95 View Post
    I stole this from Facebook, I feel it fits here....


    YOU do YOU!!!!
    Iím sick of covid-19. Iím sick of black vs. white. Iím sick of Democrats vs. Republicans. Iím sick of gay vs. straight. Iím REALLY sick of the media. Iím sick of no one being allowed to think what they want & feel what they do without offending someone. I am sick of the nosey people who call the cops when anyone does anything they donít approve of. I am sick of blaming the whole for the sins of a few.
    Weíre one raceóthe human race. You want to support President Trump? You do you. Itís your choice. You want to support Biden? Fine... also your choice! You want to believe in God? Okay, believe in God. You want to believe in magical creatures that fly around & sprinkle fairy dust to make life better? Awesome... you do you.
    BUT stop thrusting your beliefs on others & not being able to deal with the fact that they donít have the same exact mind-set as you. Having our own minds is what makes us all individual and beautiful. If you canít handle the fact that you may have a friend that has opposing views as you, then you are not any better than the bigots and the racists. I donít have to agree with everything you believe to be a decent human being & your friend.
    Great post!!!!!
    That just about sums it all up!
    (People need to chill out, and enjoy life)

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