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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel
    Wrong, Wrong, Wrong and Wrong!

    Shanahan often reaches for picks, but that has NOTHING to do with it in this case!

    The value chart establishes what the team with the #1 pick will take to trade the pick. Shanahan drafting my dead grandmother to play defensive tackle doesn't enter into it.

    Now do you begin to understand? No?



    This is just total nonsense! It's NOT always possible to get the #1 pick! It takes a boatload of picks and maybe some veteran players to get the #1 pick! Lots of times (like this year with S.F., the team won't seriously even consider trading the pick).

    When San Diego traded with the Giants in 2004 they got the Giants' #4 pick overall, plus the Giants #1 in 2004 (#12 overall) plus a couple of other picks for the rights to Eli Manning. Teams offered about the same to S.F. this year and no-dice.

    Normally, it's not even possible at all. Most teams just don't have the draft value to get the #1 overall pick! For instance, the Broncos entire 2004 draft wasn't NEARLY enough (not even with their 2005 #1 pick thrown in) to get the #1 pick this year!

    You clearly don't have a CLUE what extraordinary value the overall #1 pick has every year! Every year there is at least 1 sure-fire, can't miss player! (It's not always the same player for every team and sometimes that player doesn't pan out). But at the time of the draft, every team has at least 1 player that they would LOVE to have, if only they could get him. Normally, they can't.

    NOBODY desparately wants to trade down "for a discount" out of the top 5. Name a time when the overall #1 pick has been traded down "for a discount" to a team with about the #8-12 pick (at best). I just doesn't happen.

    And if you knew anything about the draft you'd KNOW it just doesn't happen.

    "Ive said it before, if a team wants a player bad enough they will do whatever it takes to make it happen. Period"

    That is the MOST ridiculous part of your entire remark. Only very STUPID teams will consider giving up their entire draft for 1 player. Do the Giants look like geniuses right now? They could have either used their #4 pick to take Phillip Rivers or traded down, picked up an extra pick and taken Ben Roethlisberger.

    Either of those courses would have been much better of course.

    Shanahan will NEVER trade 3 or 4 picks to take Leinart, even if he has them, which is almost certain not to happen.

    Just get the idea out of your head. It has ZERO chance of happening.
    You can write a lot, but you still dont know half of what your talking about.

  2. #77
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    I would rather have two first rounders than the 1st over all ANYDAY!!
    I bleed orange and blue!!!


    Rest in peace, Darrent.

    I adopted Domenik Hixon!!


  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perry1977
    I would rather have two first rounders than the 1st over all ANYDAY!!
    what about the day we drafted elway?
    "Philosophers have hitherto merely interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it."--Karl Marx


    "And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."--Jesus Christ





  4. #79
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    Thats easy.. we didn't draft Elway.

  5. #80
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    That is the MOST ridiculous part of your entire remark. Only very STUPID teams will consider giving up their entire draft for 1 player. Do the Giants look like geniuses right now? They could have either used their #4 pick to take Phillip Rivers or traded down, picked up an extra pick and taken Ben Roethlisberger.

    Either of those courses would have been much better of course.
    How can you say these would have been better choices yet? If Eli turns out to be as valuable as his brother, then they made the very WISE decision. We won't know that answer for another few years whether or not that move was a good one.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!!
    Thats easy.. we didn't draft Elway.
    you know what i meant...
    "Philosophers have hitherto merely interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it."--Karl Marx


    "And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."--Jesus Christ





  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcbronc
    you know what i meant...
    I'm rather curious as to the value of that trade, also.
    Denver gave up an OL (C.R.S.S.) for John.
    Cugel....any idea?????
    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
    tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
    men."

    -- Samuel Adams

    Jacks RULE!!!!!!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcsodak
    I'm rather curious as to the value of that trade, also.
    Denver gave up an OL (C.R.S.S.) for John.
    Cugel....any idea?????
    Denver traded its 1983 first round draft choice, Chris Hinton, an OG who turned out to be a good one.
    The Colts also got Mark Herrman, a QB, who didn't turn out to be a good one.
    Denver's 1984 first round draft choice and $1 million also went Baltimore's way.

    It was all worth it, wouldn't you say?

    -----
    Last edited by topscribe; 06-30-2005 at 09:49 PM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by topscribe
    Denver traded its first round draft choice, Chris Hinton, an OG who turned out to be a good one.
    The Colts also got Mark Herrman, a QB, who didn't turn out to be a good one.
    A draft choice, I think a fourth round, and $1 million also went Baltimore's way.

    It was all worth it, wouldn't you say?

    -----

    The only negative aspect of that trade, was that if Elway goes to Baltimore, the Ravens probably never exist, and the Browns maybe never move. Or maybe go to LA.

    That's speculative on my part, but I think that most NFL fans would not miss that franchise.

    But I think the good far outweighs the bad.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared
    The only negative aspect of that trade, was that if Elway goes to Baltimore, the Ravens probably never exist, and the Browns maybe never move. Or maybe go to LA.

    That's speculative on my part, but I think that most NFL fans would not miss that franchise.

    But I think the good far outweighs the bad.
    Well, I don't think that's here or there to the Denver Broncos, is it? (Sorry, Dawgfan.) In our case, I would say it was emphatically for the better.

    BTW, it was Denver's first round draft choice for the next year that Baltimore got. See my edited post.

    -----

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!!
    How can you say these would have been better choices yet? If Eli turns out to be as valuable as his brother, then they made the very WISE decision. We won't know that answer for another few years whether or not that move was a good one.
    Two points:

    1. The Giants gave up a LOT, but they didn't have to give up their entire draft, because they had the #4 pick of the draft. They gave up 2 #1s, plus some other picks to move up 3 places from #4 to #1, but one of the first round picks was in 2005.

    But to have the #4 pick they had to have a record of 4-12 in 2003 (there's NO way either Denver or Washington is going to lose 12 games this year).

    If Both Denver and Washington had 6-10 records so that Denver had 2 top 10 picks and Denver was willing to trade it's top 3 picks(2 #1s plus their high #2, plus maybe some later round picks (3-4 picks total, then MAYBE they could obtain the overall #1 pick -- not otherwise). But we all know that is not going to happen.

    2. How can I tell what is going to happen in the future? I'm only talking about the way it looks right now.

    If you were the Giants GM knowing what you know right now would you:

    1. Trade away 2 #1 picks plus a couple other high draft picks to move up 3 places for Eli Manning?

    2. Take Phillip Rivers, and keep the other draft picks (including the #12 pick over all this year -- who turned out by the way to be Shawne Merriman, possibly the best pass-rusher in the entire draft and could have been other top players the Giants could really use)?

    Or

    3. Trade down from the #4 pick in 2004, pick up an extra #1 draft pick, keep all your picks and still draft Ben Roethlisberger?

    Right now #3 looks like the best choice, but #2 doesn't sound bad either. If Manning ends up being great like Peyton, then the Giants will be happy, but they gave up a LOT. If either Rivers or Roethlisberger ends up being even near the player that Eli M. is it was probably too much.

    Right now there's no reason to think he will ever be that much better than either Roethlisberger or Rivers.

    A LOT of other people thought the Giants were giving up too much at the time. A lot of people compared it to the Minnesota Vikings trade for Herschel Walker (though it wasn't near THAT bad).
    Last edited by Cugel; 07-01-2005 at 12:01 PM.

  12. #87
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    Stupid people

    Im tired of u people saying that we need draft a WR because we dont know if our other young recievers are goin to produce. Every year, every team takes a chance on every single player that they take, thats the name of the game. I believe we are satisfied at every position and we have alot of roll players that can fill in if need be. Qb is up in the air for every tea,, every year due to injury and lack of skill. The possiblity of getting Leinhart is great if we can trade our first two picks and/or The snake doesnt produce the numbers that are needed for the fans and to pick up 2-3 more wins than last year. My point is this Qb is the most important and hardest pick to take, but with the way the snake has proven himself for his whole career it is obvious that we will be takin a Qb early next year. And if we dont than we all can go ahead and say that Shannys ego is gettin in the way of progression and I hate to say it, "We need to get rid of shanny and maybe see what ol Kubiak can do." What im sayin is its all the roll of the dice Leinhart could be the next biggest thing or the next Tim Couch nobody knows. I personally would rather take a chance on a rookie moldable QB than a old washed up 2 years ago player.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabreeze1984
    Im tired of u people saying that we need draft a WR because we dont know if our other young recievers are goin to produce. Every year, every team takes a chance on every single player that they take, thats the name of the game. I believe we are satisfied at every position and we have alot of roll players that can fill in if need be. Qb is up in the air for every tea,, every year due to injury and lack of skill. The possiblity of getting Leinhart is great if we can trade our first two picks and/or The snake doesnt produce the numbers that are needed for the fans and to pick up 2-3 more wins than last year. My point is this Qb is the most important and hardest pick to take, but with the way the snake has proven himself for his whole career it is obvious that we will be takin a Qb early next year. And if we dont than we all can go ahead and say that Shannys ego is gettin in the way of progression and I hate to say it, "We need to get rid of shanny and maybe see what ol Kubiak can do." What im sayin is its all the roll of the dice Leinhart could be the next biggest thing or the next Tim Couch nobody knows. I personally would rather take a chance on a rookie moldable QB than a old washed up 2 years ago player.
    One of our first 4 (rounds 1-3) picks better be a WR or else. But knowing Shannahan, it wont so dont worry.

  14. #89
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    Oh??

    Quote Originally Posted by Momentum
    One of our first 4 (rounds 1-3) picks better be a WR or else. But knowing Shannahan, it wont so dont worry.
    So where did Lelie come from?

    -----

  15. #90
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    So where did Marcus Nash come from?

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