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  1. #16
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    Even though we have some annoying Dayne Homers, I still like him better than Q. Maybe Dayne will make the team, I don't know if he will start. I just hope that Clarett will get to #3 by the beginning of the year, and prep him to be the horse next year.
    The three Keys to football
    1. Turnovers
    2. Field Position
    3. Red Zone Play

  2. #17
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    Mar 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by diesel51
    I find it disheartening that someone of your caliber would be rooting for Q. It almost makes me not want to root for Q. I am as big a Q fan here as anybody, but reality is starting to sink in for me, and maybe it should for you too.

    Q doesn't match the Broncos running style.
    He is coming off a major RB injury, especially for his style of running.
    Ahead of him on the Depth chart is Tatum and MA.
    Dayne has looked good enough for Mike Shannahan to publically state it.
    Shannahan hasn't said much of anything about Q, who he was once high on.
    Clarrett has played well in training camp.

    I hope Q makes the team; that's my hope. But most importantly, I hope we, as Broncos, succeed this year. To come out and say that he is going to be starting by week 4 or 5, is absurd. That means either you are hoping or counting on one of two things to happen:
    1)Starting RB goes down with injury, as well as all RBs ahead of Q on the depth chart, or
    2)Our running game is ineffective, so Shannahan decides to shake it up some.

    Either way, those two scenarios do not help the Broncos succeed.
    Here is where I can agree with Big bones.

    Pray tell what is this running style, a hole opens or it does not. If there is no hole and last year after they changed RD from the blocking back to the RB and changed stuff up our running game became effective.

    Johnson became the primary FB and RD went from ineffective FB to a pretty good RB, I have always wondered how they thought a 208 RB could be an effective blocking back. Especaily when he probabaly really wanted a chance at being said RB.

    Granted Q is down the list as wfar as RB's are concerned . But if a hole does not open NO ONE can go through it.

    Q's downfall last year was
    He played against some of the best Running Defenses @ that particular time in the year.
    He had a 207-9 pound blocking back infront of him.
    The Oline was still getting to know each other.
    They tried pounding Q up the gut way to much to prove to the world that the Broncs could run on anyone. JAX game was the clincher trying to run at TWO all pro DT's stupid regardless of who was @ RB. Not with our undersized Oline. Plain stupid! Mikeys EGO ran amuck on this one.
    After Q was hurt (ankle) in his last part of the last game, they revamped, brought in different FB and changed the play calling. To his credit RD proved to be a better RB than FB, until he just ran out of gas 6-7 games later.

    Can't be a FB at less than 210 LBs.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    55
    I have to agree w/D.51. Q does not bring alot to the starting rb role. If he is starting by wk 4 like bigbones wishes for that means some real good rb's went down with a injury. At best he is a 3rd down back that may run the screen, or some kind of one back draw. He is a liability to the protection of the QB. If a screen or draw is not called and he can't get out on his check down route due to the blitz he will get run over by the lb. and our qb will get hit right in the mouth and they will be taking him off in a golf cart,or worse. On the other hand if he gets in space he is good, he makes someone miss then he gets pummled and fumbles. And to all those who may feel that I am hating on the little bug I am not. Just calling them like I see them.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrhampton
    Here is where I can agree with Big bones.

    Pray tell what is this running style, a hole opens or it does not. If there is no hole and last year after they changed RD from the blocking back to the RB and changed stuff up our running game became effective.

    Johnson became the primary FB and RD went from ineffective FB to a pretty good RB, I have always wondered how they thought a 208 RB could be an effective blocking back. Especaily when he probabaly really wanted a chance at being said RB.

    Granted Q is down the list as wfar as RB's are concerned . But if a hole does not open NO ONE can go through it.

    Q's downfall last year was
    He played against some of the best Running Defenses @ that particular time in the year.
    He had a 207-9 pound blocking back infront of him.
    The Oline was still getting to know each other.
    They tried pounding Q up the gut way to much to prove to the world that the Broncs could run on anyone. JAX game was the clincher trying to run at TWO all pro DT's stupid regardless of who was @ RB. Not with our undersized Oline. Plain stupid! Mikeys EGO ran amuck on this one.
    After Q was hurt (ankle) in his last part of the last game, they revamped, brought in different FB and changed the play calling. To his credit RD proved to be a better RB than FB, until he just ran out of gas 6-7 games later.

    Can't be a FB at less than 210 LBs.

    is this deja vu....
    ....or a broken record

    "Philosophers have hitherto merely interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it."--Karl Marx


    "And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."--Jesus Christ





  5. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    55
    BCBronco 1st of all I am not hating just want to try and clear some things up that you said. You must not know a lot about football schemes. Here is a football 101 refresher course for you. Since MS. has been the head coach they have been a zone blocking team. Two o-line work on 1 d-line to the scrape lb. some of the LM like the T.end sometimes have to block the man by themselves depending on where he lines up. on the back side..the side from where the play is called...usually end up cutting somebody to the groud,thus creating cutback lanes for the back...mix that in w/the QB on the bootleg to keep the backside DE from chasing the play down....because the Broncos send those 208lb fullbacks at first threat playside...the sam linebacker(ROMO) or the play side saftey they DO NOT NEED TO BE 245lbs. All zone blocking teams do is to try and get people moving sideways instead of downhill,stay ingaged with a man and give your back a two way out...more then 1 choice of where to go. I hope this helps you understand what the Broncos do 99.99% of the time...same scheme that won 2 SUPPERBOWLS. The thing that hurts zone blocking schemes the most is when people get to much penatration into the offensive side of the los. The broncos don't care who lines up on them they will zone them to death...as far as MS goes he didn't fumble little bug did. its easier to sit up there in your armchair and rip the coach for what happened...I to was upset with that game...not for the call but for the fumble....and you are 100% correct when RD switched to tailback theyt got better...you need a good rb in this scheme to be successful. And if I stand corrected did'nt RD block for a guy named Portis???????? And if you payed close enough attention to the play calling not much changed..zone rt or zone lft.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by txsbronco
    BCBronco 1st of all I am not hating just want to try and clear some things up that you said. You must not know a lot about football schemes. Here is a football 101 refresher course for you. Since MS. has been the head coach they have been a zone blocking team. Two o-line work on 1 d-line to the scrape lb. some of the LM like the T.end sometimes have to block the man by themselves depending on where he lines up. on the back side..the side from where the play is called...usually end up cutting somebody to the groud,thus creating cutback lanes for the back...mix that in w/the QB on the bootleg to keep the backside DE from chasing the play down....because the Broncos send those 208lb fullbacks at first threat playside...the sam linebacker(ROMO) or the play side saftey they DO NOT NEED TO BE 245lbs. All zone blocking teams do is to try and get people moving sideways instead of downhill,stay ingaged with a man and give your back a two way out...more then 1 choice of where to go. I hope this helps you understand what the Broncos do 99.99% of the time...same scheme that won 2 SUPPERBOWLS. The thing that hurts zone blocking schemes the most is when people get to much penatration into the offensive side of the los. The broncos don't care who lines up on them they will zone them to death...as far as MS goes he didn't fumble little bug did. its easier to sit up there in your armchair and rip the coach for what happened...I to was upset with that game...not for the call but for the fumble....and you are 100% correct when RD switched to tailback theyt got better...you need a good rb in this scheme to be successful. And if I stand corrected did'nt RD block for a guy named Portis???????? And if you payed close enough attention to the play calling not much changed..zone rt or zone lft.
    are you sure you meant me?
    "Philosophers have hitherto merely interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it."--Karl Marx


    "And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."--Jesus Christ





  7. #22
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    Aug 2005
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    BCBronco I stand corrected please forgive my error. When I read it I thought it was you. I am sorry for calling the wrong person out. JRhampton was the one it was meant for.

  8. #23
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    May 2005
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    good points txsbronco

    The main argument that finishes what you were explaining is that in Denver's running game you need a strong back that makes one cut, hits the hole, and can stand up to a little beef. He needs to shed arm tackles, maybe even run over a DB. The problem, and it has been noted by the media, not just us, is YOU CAN NOT DANCE, in the Denver backfield, you can not be at all tentative. Shannhan and or RB coach have talked about these things at length. This is what is currently keeping Bell at #2 is he isn't consistently hitting the hole with authority. This is why Q is better suited to screen, swing passes, etc...we need to get him in open space. We need to get him isolated on LBs and DBs and let his skills really shine. You're right, he's probably not best suited for feature back. Amazingly enough we have three maybe 5 guys better suited (depending on Sapp's development and whether or not we move him to exclusively a FB) for the job.

  9. #24
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    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by topscribe
    I didn't either. Anyway, welcome to the boards!

    (Better late than never, even though I did join after you did.)

    -----
    you can remeber that many posts ago??? lol

    are you coming up for a game tops?

  10. #25
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    Jul 2005
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    Breckenridge
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    Dayne?

    I hope the guy does well. Hell, i hope they all do well. We need some trading power!

    You know he looked really good last preseason and ended up doing nothing.

    I just hope it was because of his situation in NY. He's always said he should be a feature back.....

  11. #26
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    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiehardinAlaska
    The main argument that finishes what you were explaining is that in Denver's running game you need a strong back that makes one cut, hits the hole, and can stand up to a little beef. He needs to shed arm tackles, maybe even run over a DB. The problem, and it has been noted by the media, not just us, is YOU CAN NOT DANCE, in the Denver backfield, you can not be at all tentative. Shannhan and or RB coach have talked about these things at length. This is what is currently keeping Bell at #2 is he isn't consistently hitting the hole with authority. This is why Q is better suited to screen, swing passes, etc...we need to get him in open space. We need to get him isolated on LBs and DBs and let his skills really shine. You're right, he's probably not best suited for feature back. Amazingly enough we have three maybe 5 guys better suited (depending on Sapp's development and whether or not we move him to exclusively a FB) for the job.
    Hitting the hole takes experience. That's why I think he'll do better after this season.

  12. #27
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    Mar 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by txsbronco
    I have to agree w/D.51. Q does not bring alot to the starting rb role. If he is starting by wk 4 like bigbones wishes for that means some real good rb's went down with a injury. At best he is a 3rd down back that may run the screen, or some kind of one back draw. He is a liability to the protection of the QB. If a screen or draw is not called and he can't get out on his check down route due to the blitz he will get run over by the lb. and our qb will get hit right in the mouth and they will be taking him off in a golf cart,or worse. On the other hand if he gets in space he is good, he makes someone miss then he gets pummled and fumbles. And to all those who may feel that I am hating on the little bug I am not. Just calling them like I see them.

    First of all please do all us old timers a favor and break your comments into smaller paragraphs. Really hard to read the way it is.. Thanks.

    Q is perhap the top blocker in pass protection we have, ranks next to MA in his blocking so I don't think that to be an issue.

    With the caliber of the backs we have in camp Q's chances of starting are slim, but as a running back is alot more exciting than MA ever will be.

    Will he recover from his devistating knee injury? I don't know. But given the same BLOCKERs that the other backs have or have had, there is NO reason he could not start if healed for this team. Might not have the same blazing speed that tater has or the same bullishness that MA or Big MO might have but given the same circumstances with blocking and play calling as the others there is not reason he could not be as good if not better than the others.

    Time will tell whether he is fully healed or when he will be fully healed from the ACL and meniscus tear. I'd guess not till mid year, if ever. I'll leave that for MIkey and the doctors to decide.

  13. #28
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    Mar 2004
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    8,462
    Quote Originally Posted by DiehardinAlaska
    The main argument that finishes what you were explaining is that in Denver's running game you need a strong back that makes one cut, hits the hole, and can stand up to a little beef. He needs to shed arm tackles, maybe even run over a DB. The problem, and it has been noted by the media, not just us, is YOU CAN NOT DANCE, in the Denver backfield, you can not be at all tentative. Shannhan and or RB coach have talked about these things at length. This is what is currently keeping Bell at #2 is he isn't consistently hitting the hole with authority. This is why Q is better suited to screen, swing passes, etc...we need to get him in open space. We need to get him isolated on LBs and DBs and let his skills really shine. You're right, he's probably not best suited for feature back. Amazingly enough we have three maybe 5 guys better suited (depending on Sapp's development and whether or not we move him to exclusively a FB) for the job.


    I agree about everthing you said, but last year it was not Q that was at fault.

    The holes were not there for him to hit.

    THey tried running at I repeat AT the strong point of in JAX defense their TWO ALLPRO DT's not smart. Especailly with a Oline still trying to remember the persons name that is next to them.

    You never ever run AT the defenses strongest point. That is football 101.

    Look at what we did playing the packers in the SB got fatass gilbert brown running sidleines to sidleines by the 3 qrter he was about to die. Would have taken 4 guys to haul his fat gut off the field.

    We did not have the horsepower at the point of attack to move these guys. Sure there was dancing behind the LOS when you are staring at the backsides of you own Oline with no hole he had nothing to do but dance. COupled with playing a 207 pound RB as a full back or blocking back whatever you wish to call RD is stupid. I watched thse tape a thousand times when Q tried to run he was in most cases trying to follow a FB that was getting blown back intop the hole by a LB or DE. Mikey in his arrogance decided to prove his point. He kept trying to run up the gut ( if I remember correctly over 60% at the DT's) when the only plays that were remotely working were the off tackle, around end wide stuff. The mix was not good and if you want to look at it is well documented on this sight. When they went wide the results were considerably better than at the DT.

    This same issue has been argued to death since last year.

    There is no reason that given the same blockers and scheme that Q can't run just as effecetively than the others. This he did not have last year.

    However I will say if Big MO gets started he will be a force to reckon with, while I like MA just don't think he is a long term solution and think and always have thought that tater is a flake. Dane, time will tell if he starts ok by me I just don't really care because it is the team I'm routing for. Would Q bring somemore excitment to the running game you bet it would.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrhampton
    I agree about everthing you said, but last year it was not Q that was at fault.

    The holes were not there for him to hit.

    THey tried running at I repeat AT the strong point of in JAX defense their TWO ALLPRO DT's not smart. Especailly with a Oline still trying to remember the persons name that is next to them.

    You never ever run AT the defenses strongest point. That is football 101.

    Look at what we did playing the packers in the SB got fatass gilbert brown running sidleines to sidleines by the 3 qrter he was about to die. Would have taken 4 guys to haul his fat gut off the field.

    We did not have the horsepower at the point of attack to move these guys. Sure there was dancing behind the LOS when you are staring at the backsides of you own Oline with no hole he had nothing to do but dance. COupled with playing a 207 pound RB as a full back or blocking back whatever you wish to call RD is stupid. I watched thse tape a thousand times when Q tried to run he was in most cases trying to follow a FB that was getting blown back intop the hole by a LB or DE. Mikey in his arrogance decided to prove his point.
    He kept trying to run up the gut ( if I remember correctly over 60% at the DT's) when the only plays that were remotely working were the off tackle, around end wide stuff. The mix was not good and if you want to look at it is well documented on this sight. When they went wide the results were considerably better than at the DT.
    This same issue has been argued to death since last year.

    There is no reason that given the same blockers and scheme that Q can't run just as effecetively than the others. This he did not have last year.

    However I will say if Big MO gets started he will be a force to reckon with, while I like MA just don't think he is a long term solution and think and always have thought that tater is a flake. Dane, time will tell if he starts ok by me I just don't really care because it is the team I'm routing for. Would Q bring somemore excitment to the running game you bet it would.
    That's why I want them to run more pitches, tosses and sweeps like the days with TD.
    The three Keys to football
    1. Turnovers
    2. Field Position
    3. Red Zone Play

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    55
    Jr I Hope This Is Big Enough For You To Read. Sorry For Not Double Spacing My Reply, But I Am Not Writing A Term Paper. Lol....you Got Part Of It Right With Gilbert Brown Same Thing Applies To Whoever You Play...as A Coach You Do Not Go Away From What You Do Best, If That Was The Case They Never Would Of Had G. Brown Sideline To Sideline.


    I Recall G.brown Dominated 16 Plus Games That Year Till The S.bowl. You Need To Have Faith In You Scheme And The Men Who Are Running It. As Far As Your Analogy Of Football 101 You Still Do Not Get The Big Picture (scheme) And Once Again I Am Not Hating On You...



    Let Me Ask You This...if You Think Little Bug Is The Best The Broncos Have In Protection That Means He Is Taking On 245lb Lbs. And Winning..yet All You Have To Do Is Get A Hand On Him And He Goes Down..the Two Do Not Equate. As Far As Your Statement About The Dancing In The Backfield...a Back Is Only As Good As His O-line Is Till He Gets To The Second Level....(thats Where The Lb.s Play) Then Thats What Seperates Them...not Talking About Payton Or Sanders.


    As Far As The Same Blockers (that Would Be The O-line) And The Plays They Were The Same. A Coach Is Not Going To Put Plays In For One Back Then Change The Scheme For Another. And I Hate To Tell You This But In The Nfl Their Players Are As Good As Our Players If They Were Not Then It Would Not Be The Nfl

    Bronco Plays Are Not Going To Work All Of The Time..just Like Their Def. Is Not Going To Stop The Broncos All The Time ...and For Your Info When A Fb Can't Get Through The Los Don't Say He Is To Small...the O-line Just Had Its A@# Handed To It. 240lb Fullbacks Have A Hard Time Blocking A 300lb Man. I Do Agree It Is All About The Team...and Believe Me Coaches Don't Call Plays Because Of Their Arrogance You Get Fired To Fast..you Call It Because You Have Faith.


    Sorry To All For The Term Paper Folks Just Trying To Educate So, So Many Hate For No Reason. If You Think You Can Do A Better Job Then Ms Get Your Teaching Degree,go Into Coaching, Don't See Your Kids For A Period Of Time And Try And Fill His Shoes...good Luck

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