Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 158
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Physbo
    Now, i did read every post made in this topic, but i read most. There was a argument about how Plummer has a terrible touchdown to interception ratio. Well, if we compare that to John Elway, who did not have a break out season till 1993. Now then, in Jakes nine year carrer, mostly playing with a terrible terrible team. He has 132 TDs and 141 Ints. Now you cant have an excuse for all those, but still. Yes that is a bad ration. Then lets look at John Elway, he had 300 tds to his 226 ints. That ratio only improve after 93. Now he was drafted in 83, so that made him a 10 year vet. See where im coming from? Jake played some what similar to John, but John had a better team. I could sit here and break down how john didnt look well stat wise early in his carrer, but he still won games. Jake has been winning games. Isnt that what its about?

    And sorry if there are some misspelled words, its early and im kind of tired.

    Good logical post.

    But there are a bunch 15 or so Elway worshippers that will take on any one that uses Jakes name in the same paragraph and the revered one John.

    Be prepared for this drivel.

    Now John is a HOF QB, but the shrine they have built for him in their minds will not allow them to see that he was a mere mortal in his earlier years.

    Someone stated in anothe thread that Dan R brought John to his true potential. I started to comment at the time but was to tired to think straight.

    Dan did nothing but hamstring John and his talents until such time as Mikey was brought on board to be the buffer between them and give him coaching John languished in the 2 runs and a pass offense that the EX RB Dan Reeves believed in. John trying to make up for the pathetic running game we had over most of those years.

    Between Mikey and Fassel, they were what made John Elways career in DEN. Dan was merely an speed bump in the career of John on his to his eventual HOF induction.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Madison,WI
    Posts
    18,632
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanahanaramjam
    Message to Jake: Get your Fu**ing game up and pull the string out of your a**! Lets go!
    Wow.......... your just dumb.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    18,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Physbo
    Now, i did read every post made in this topic, but i read most. There was a argument about how Plummer has a terrible touchdown to interception ratio. Well, if we compare that to John Elway, who did not have a break out season till 1993. Now then, in Jakes nine year carrer, mostly playing with a terrible terrible team. He has 132 TDs and 141 Ints. Now you cant have an excuse for all those, but still. Yes that is a bad ration. Then lets look at John Elway, he had 300 tds to his 226 ints. That ratio only improve after 93. Now he was drafted in 83, so that made him a 10 year vet. See where im coming from? Jake played some what similar to John, but John had a better team. I could sit here and break down how john didnt look well stat wise early in his carrer, but he still won games. Jake has been winning games. Isnt that what its about?

    And sorry if there are some misspelled words, its early and im kind of tired.
    I'm going to do exactly what JRhampton suggested some will. If you DON'T want Jake to be compared to HoF QBs, then DON'T compare their stats! There is NOOOOO reason to try and compare Jake Plummer to John Elway. There isn't even a comparison. Jake will NEVER be in the same class, or EVER have his name mentioned as one of the all time greats.

    And I'll state this again, because I was talking about this in another thread, about another player. There are some players that just RAISE the level of ability on the players around them. There is just SOMETHING some players have, that can't be measured with stupid stats. Stats are stats and should be used to compare talent ONLY in baseball. Because baseball is an indiviual sport. They just all happen to be on the field at one time. Football is a complete TEAM sport. So simple stats can't be used when comparing talent. The IDEA of someone trying to compare Jake to John is stupid. Jake doesn't have anywhere NEAR the talent that John Elway had.

    John was never the 'stat' guy. He was the guy that won you games. HE was the ONE GUY that the entire defense on the other team had to game plan against. Do you see the difference? Defenses game planned to try and stop JOHN ELWAY only. They weren't worried about anyone else on the team. Yet John STILL won games. Still took us to the Super Bowl.

    Its NOT FAIR to Jake to compare him to John. Yet..when people bring up the OBVIOUS factors when comparing, then its "John is on the pedestal and can't be used to compare to Jake."

    Jake is NOT John and will never come close. John won 5 division titles, 3 conference titles, was 6-1 in the playoffs, had started in 4 Pro-bowls, and took his team to THREE Super Bowls while winning a League MVP in the same amount of time that Plummer has been in the league. To try and tell me that Jake is "basically the same type of QB" is... pathetic.

    Compare Jake to players that have won that are close to his talent level...and it would make a better arguement. It would hold more water.. and wouldn't look so ridiculous.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!!
    I'm going to do exactly what JRhampton suggested some will. If you DON'T want Jake to be compared to HoF QBs, then DON'T compare their stats! There is NOOOOO reason to try and compare Jake Plummer to John Elway. There isn't even a comparison. Jake will NEVER be in the same class, or EVER have his name mentioned as one of the all time greats.

    And I'll state this again, because I was talking about this in another thread, about another player. There are some players that just RAISE the level of ability on the players around them. There is just SOMETHING some players have, that can't be measured with stupid stats. Stats are stats and should be used to compare talent ONLY in baseball. Because baseball is an indiviual sport. They just all happen to be on the field at one time. Football is a complete TEAM sport. So simple stats can't be used when comparing talent. The IDEA of someone trying to compare Jake to John is stupid. Jake doesn't have anywhere NEAR the talent that John Elway had.

    John was never the 'stat' guy. He was the guy that won you games. HE was the ONE GUY that the entire defense on the other team had to game plan against. Do you see the difference? Defenses game planned to try and stop JOHN ELWAY only. They weren't worried about anyone else on the team. Yet John STILL won games. Still took us to the Super Bowl.

    Its NOT FAIR to Jake to compare him to John. Yet..when people bring up the OBVIOUS factors when comparing, then its "John is on the pedestal and can't be used to compare to Jake."

    Jake is NOT John and will never come close. John won 5 division titles, 3 conference titles, was 6-1 in the playoffs, had started in 4 Pro-bowls, and took his team to THREE Super Bowls while winning a League MVP in the same amount of time that Plummer has been in the league. To try and tell me that Jake is "basically the same type of QB" is... pathetic.

    Compare Jake to players that have won that are close to his talent level...and it would make a better arguement. It would hold more water.. and wouldn't look so ridiculous.


    You and differ in this area. Only because in EVERYONE elses eyes except yours and a dozen or so other fans on this board John is not the QB God that you think he is.



    There is nothing wrong with that but be advised, that you are the small minority here.

    Jake may not ever be in your eyes worthy of being compared to John, but get used to the idea that he will be the longer he is in DEN. It is only natural and logical.

    Now should we compare him to his contemporaries yes of course.

    John will be the best in DEN til Jake or someone else takes his place, but it will happen, just as Marinos record are being broken most of Johns will be also.

    Sad but true.

    Did John bring the Broncos to another level yes indeed and he will always be remembered by me and I'm sure thousands of others in the vein.

    But now Ravage it is time to move on for most of us. Join us if you wish or continue to rail against Jake and John comparsions, as they are enevitable. Because afterall they both have indeed been on the Broncos.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Frisco, CO
    Posts
    8,150
    Quote Originally Posted by Jrhampton
    You and differ in this area. Only because in EVERYONE elses eyes except yours and a dozen or so other fans on this board John is not the QB God that you think he is.
    JR,

    Just when I think we can begin to agree on things, you say something like this. I guarantee you that there are more than a "dozen or so fans" that understand how good Elway was.

    Get Real!!
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?u=4223&type=sigpic&dateline=1244089821

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    247
    oh please pull your head out of your ass, enough is enough....... move on people, mentioning jake in the same sentence, let alone paragraph, or even article as John Elway is ridiculous, if you think plummer is nearly as good as John Elway we all know you do not watch football, you read stats.. end of story. get with it.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,462
    Quote Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman
    JR,

    Just when I think we can begin to agree on things, you say something like this. I guarantee you that there are more than a "dozen or so fans" that understand how good Elway was.

    Get Real!!

    There are only a few on this forum that idolize him to a irrational point of not mentioning him in the same sentence as John. Or going ballistic if someone does.

    John is HOF and will always hold a special spot in my heart. He our Moses that lead the Broncos to the promised land.

    It was 37 odd years of me watching them to get there. It was sweet!

    But for anyone to say we can't compare Jake to him is not normal.

    Jake is our QB now for better or worse it was Mikeys and Pats decision to option him for the next year/s.

    Some need to move on and accept this fact.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    13,489
    Quote Originally Posted by txsbronco
    once again Jr i have to call you out on football stupidity....you are telling the whole board that JP throw all those INT'S. last year because his RB sucked??? tell the board one thing the RB's did to contribute to the WR's droping balls into the hands of the other team...hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, NOT A F#$$&*5 THANG

    Hey board I guess Jr think the Broncos are surrounded by a bunch of slaps...Jr that means sucky players...my bad didn't mean to hate on you...and I really hate this but JR is right about the tips, but notice he didn't talk about the protection breakdowns, causing at least 5-6 int's...that is because the little bug was not in there....Jr thinks he is the best in protection...even though he was on the IR...
    Now, did you notice how I have your exact post replicated right above here so I am forced to accurately represent what you said? I accomplished that by using the "Quote" button. That''s that button at the lower right of a post. If you use it, then your reader can tell precisely to what post you are alluding when you point out how stupid the poster is. For instance, I cannot find where JR said Jake threw INTs last year because "his RB sucked."

    BTW, does your "m" key occasionally stick on you? Oh yes, your bypassing the filter and starting a "funny key" expletive with the letter "F" just may get you dropped (check the spelling of that word) from the board for a while. FYI.



    -----

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    13,489
    Quote Originally Posted by txsbronco
    jr read your own post, 4th # and from what else I am reading their are others on this board who think you DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!

    sorry if the caps hurt your eyes... when you start speewing statements that sound half way like you know what the @#$$ you are talking about...I will quit pointing them out to you and the board...I hope all my funny letters are not a COC violation...god forbid
    And "there" are others on this board to do think JR knows what he is talking about. There are others on this board besides you and mtnmn. In other words, there are others, while not presuming to say Jake has been an All-Pro, who realize Jake did a good job last year and the year before. In this, we're siding with the coaches . . . . you know, those people who know almost as much as you?

    -----

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    13,489
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!!
    I'm going to do exactly what JRhampton suggested some will. If you DON'T want Jake to be compared to HoF QBs, then DON'T compare their stats! There is NOOOOO reason to try and compare Jake Plummer to John Elway. There isn't even a comparison. Jake will NEVER be in the same class, or EVER have his name mentioned as one of the all time greats.

    And I'll state this again, because I was talking about this in another thread, about another player. There are some players that just RAISE the level of ability on the players around them. There is just SOMETHING some players have, that can't be measured with stupid stats. Stats are stats and should be used to compare talent ONLY in baseball. Because baseball is an indiviual sport. They just all happen to be on the field at one time. Football is a complete TEAM sport. So simple stats can't be used when comparing talent. The IDEA of someone trying to compare Jake to John is stupid. Jake doesn't have anywhere NEAR the talent that John Elway had.

    John was never the 'stat' guy. He was the guy that won you games. HE was the ONE GUY that the entire defense on the other team had to game plan against. Do you see the difference? Defenses game planned to try and stop JOHN ELWAY only. They weren't worried about anyone else on the team. Yet John STILL won games. Still took us to the Super Bowl.

    Its NOT FAIR to Jake to compare him to John. Yet..when people bring up the OBVIOUS factors when comparing, then its "John is on the pedestal and can't be used to compare to Jake."

    Jake is NOT John and will never come close. John won 5 division titles, 3 conference titles, was 6-1 in the playoffs, had started in 4 Pro-bowls, and took his team to THREE Super Bowls while winning a League MVP in the same amount of time that Plummer has been in the league. To try and tell me that Jake is "basically the same type of QB" is... pathetic.

    Compare Jake to players that have won that are close to his talent level...and it would make a better arguement. It would hold more water.. and wouldn't look so ridiculous.
    Rav, Jake's 4,089 yards last season was unmatched my Elway. Jake's 27 TDs tied Elway's best year. Now, did I look ridiculous? If I did, then sometimes facts must make a person revealing them look ridiculous, I guess. Did I say Jake is Elway's equal? Looking back on this post, I cannot see where. I pointed out a couple areas in which Jake excelled, that's all. To NOT provide such comparisons is not fair to Jake . . . . unless you believe it is fair that Jake can never emerge from Elway's shadow.

    No, Jake will never be among the all-time greats. However, to say he cannot lead us to the Super Bowl is not fair. (This is a generic statement, not applied to anything you have said.) A few here (again, not you) harbor an agenda against Jake, and if he does end up in the Super Bowl, I believe some of these people will be saying the Broncos got there despite him.

    Nonetheless, I find myself on one side and them on the other. You seem to be in the middle, somewhere between us. Thanks for being there. Points to you for your attempt at balance.

    EDIT: "You must spread some Contributor Status around before giving it to Ravage!!! again." IOU.

    -----

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Ft. Carson, CO
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by B4Bronco16
    Wow.......... your just dumb.

    Classic quote here folks!

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    18,970
    Quote Originally Posted by Jrhampton
    ...
    But now Ravage it is time to move on for most of us. Join us if you wish or continue to rail against Jake and John comparsions, as they are enevitable. Because afterall they both have indeed been on the Broncos.
    No. I can respect what you are saying.. but completely disagree. I know Elway isnt' a god. I know he was only human.

    But if you are going to compare John Elway to other QBs.. at least compare him to other QBs that can be compared to him. Favre, Marino, Young, Montana...

    But QBs that are at the level of Jake Plummer... the only thing Jake and John will EVER share in common is the uniform. Jake will NEVER EVER be listed with those considered to be amongst the greatest of all time. Jake will never be in the HoF.

    That being said. I've said. Its not fair to JAKE to compare him to John Elway. I've said that EVERY time. Why? Because people can constantly show that Jake is NOT to that level of play. If you want to compare him to another player.. compare him to someone near his kind of ability and success. If you do NOT want people to put Elway UP in comparison to Jake.. then do NOT try to compare Jake to John, then expect others not to counter that comparison.

    We can win with Jake on how he is..but do NOT try to suggest that Jake is anywhere near the kind of player that John Elway was..because thats just puttig him on a level where he does NOT belong, and to be honest.. it isn't fair to Jake to try and put him there, becaue he will only have a LONG ways to fall when pushed off that pedestal.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    18,970
    Quote Originally Posted by topscribe
    Rav, Jake's 4,089 yards last season was unmatched my Elway. Jake's 27 TDs tied Elway's best year. Now, did I look ridiculous? If I did, then sometimes facts must make a person revealing them look ridiculous, I guess. Did I say Jake is Elway's equal? Looking back on this post, I cannot see where. I pointed out a couple areas in which Jake excelled, that's all. To NOT provide such comparisons is not fair to Jake . . . . unless you believe it is fair that Jake can never emerge from Elway's shadow.

    No, Jake will never be among the all-time greats. However, to say he cannot lead us to the Super Bowl is not fair. (This is a generic statement, not applied to anything you have said.) A few here (again, not you) harbor an agenda against Jake, and if he does end up in the Super Bowl, I believe some of these people will be saying the Broncos got there despite him.

    Nonetheless, I find myself on one side and them on the other. You seem to be in the middle, somewhere between us. Thanks for being there. Points to you for your attempt at balance.

    EDIT: "You must spread some Contributor Status around before giving it to Ravage!!! again." IOU.

    -----
    Top. I don't think I was responding to your post with mine. But I see your point. If we go to the Super Bowl.. I personally don't think it was BECAUSE of Jake. I am sure he would be a very intricate cog to the wheel however (thats an obvious statement).

    I guess my ears perk up when people try to point out the the stats compared to Elway's in DEFENSE of Jake. To me, that doesn't hold water. There are just somethings that stats don't show. If people want to use the 4000 yrd marker as a comparison to how he did for the year.. compared to the rest of the league, compared to the average QB, or compared to the others in the division, fine. But if you are going to use his 4000 yrds in comparison to a HoF QB and say that Jake is 'basically the same type of QB' (I'm not saying it was you that said this)...then I'm going to RUN to make a rebuttle. Stats are just stats and don't prove anything. If that were the case, you would read Marino's stats and assume he won more Championships than any other QB alive. I know you know this.

    My main point is simple. If you DON'T want people to compare Jake to John Elway.. then DON'T use the 'stats' and state that Jake has more yardage than John in a single season. Because I will counter than with ten other "stats." If you are going to point out Jake's 27 TD passes, GREAT. But if you compare those 27 TD passes to John... then again, I'm going to point out 27 other stats that Jake can't hold up to. If you DON'T want Jake to constantly be compared to John Elway..then PLEASE don't compare his stats to John Elway! Thats simple, right?

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3,102
    I think the whole stat arguement is brought up, because people are bashing on Plummer way too harshly. Does it imply Jake is better? Of course not. Fans are outraged over our performance and are demanding heads. We dont want to get rid of a potentially good qb because we got hot tempered and went on a scapegoat spree.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Live in Iowa
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

    We can win with Jake on how he is..but do NOT try to suggest that Jake is anywhere near the kind of player that John Elway was..because thats just puttig him on a level where he does NOT belong, and to be honest.. it isn't fair to Jake to try and put him there, becaue he will only have a LONG ways to fall when pushed off that pedestal.
    We can win with Jake as long as there is a good solid team around him. He is just not going to elevate an entire team the way Elway did in the 80s.
    [FONT=Lucida Console][SIZE=2][COLOR=DarkOrange]Proud Bronco fan since 1975. I just wish every football player out there today was more like my man Rod Smith. Knowing we will never see him on the field again is very hard. He gave everything he had and left his guts on the field. I will miss him.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •