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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    87
    WR Rod Smith- Undrafted FA
    WR Ashley Lelie - Draft
    LT Matt Lepsis- undrafted
    LG Ben Hamilton- Draft
    C Tom Nalen- undrafted
    RG Cooper Carlisle- draft
    RT George Foster- Darft
    TE Stephen Alexander-FA
    QB Jake Plummer- FA
    RB Tatum Bell- Draft
    FB Kyle Johnson- Draft

    LDE Courtney Brown FA
    LDT Michael Myers FA
    RDT Gerard Warren FA
    RDE John Engelberger Trade for middlebrooks-draft
    SLB D.J. Williams Draft
    MLB Al Wilson Draft
    WLB Ian Gold Draft
    LCB Champ Bailey Trade for portis-draft
    RCB Darrent Williams Draft
    FS John Lynch FA
    SS Nick Ferguson FA

    Good thing we have no draft picks starting for our team. This just proves that shanahan can't draft. What a looser, get shanahan out........

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Amarillo, TX
    Posts
    4,460
    That's some good info...

    Do you lurk around Patriots board alot?
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    2003, 2009 Fantasy League Champion!
    2006, 2010 Fantasy League Runner-up

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,351
    There is a fine line between fiscal responsibility with building through the draft and taking care of your own.

    Is there a chance the Pats have gotten a little full of themselves in the thinking that they can do what Denver does at RB at almost ANY position, thus they often force players to take below market value to STAY and let them go if they do not accept below market.

    This is not 100% true with them of course, and they have had no doubt a tremendous amount of success with how they have ran business. But, their "chemistry" that won them 3 Championships will fade about as fast as "original contracts."

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    427
    If its true I would understand it to some degree. I mean when you see the pats let guys like Vinateri, McGinest, etc walk without putting up much of a fight, it tells you something. Difft people value things difftly, we all may think every athlete's only gola is to win a championship, but thats not true. Think about where you work, some of the people there may be interested in making the company the best in its field, others are only interested in how much they get paid, others want a comfortable work environment where they feel appreciated, and still others care most about job security. Athletes, though we tend to glorify or villify them based on the situation, are only human. To some I am sure feeling appreciated, and having job security is more impt than having the best chance of a title. And I dont think I can judge that.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    218
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimedes Owl
    It's funny because I've noticed you complain about us not paying big money for free agents in the past.
    So is the way you are refuting his argument. I agree with Crugel if the Patriots think the price tag is too high and want some fiscal discipline that is fine. The Nalen article is bunk. I bet the Patriots sign a few free agents this off-season. One could argue that we did the same thing to our guys (Trevor, Mike, and Jeb) or Ian Gold 2 years ago. However, the truth be told was they weren't willing to compromise with the Broncos or they would still be here. Vinateri wanted to be the highest paid kicker and the Patriots didn't want spend that much probably because they trying to give Richard Seymour a new contract (he will be a FA next year). I hear all these applauds for the Colts in signing Vinateri but why didn't they put their money to their own free agents E. James and D. Thorton? I guess they weren't loyal either. I am not a Patriot fan but to say that the Patriots aren't loyal to their players and no one wants to go there is ridiculous. What I see is the Patriots are loyal to their fans by not overspending on a kicker.
    Broncos fans since age 6.
    Fanatical Broncos fan since 1991.
    Favorite Player: John Elway
    Favorite Coach: Mike Shanahan

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,473
    Quote Originally Posted by Loyalty
    So is the way you are refuting his argument. I agree with Crugel if the Patriots think the price tag is too high and want some fiscal discipline that is fine. The Nalen article is bunk. I bet the Patriots sign a few free agents this off-season. One could argue that we did the same thing to our guys (Trevor, Mike, and Jeb) or Ian Gold 2 years ago. However, the truth be told was they weren't willing to compromise with the Broncos or they would still be here. Vinateri wanted to be the highest paid kicker and the Patriots didn't want spend that much probably because they trying to give Richard Seymour a new contract (he will be a FA next year). I hear all these applauds for the Colts in signing Vinateri but why didn't they put their money to their own free agents E. James and D. Thorton? I guess they weren't loyal either. I am not a Patriot fan but to say that the Patriots aren't loyal to their players and no one wants to go there is ridiculous. What I see is the Patriots are loyal to their fans by not overspending on a kicker.
    I agree with alot of you post but I don't agree with one thing. Vinatieri isn't just a kicker. He's arguably one of the greatest kickers of all time. He's one of the four faces of the franchise. When you think of the Pats and their 3 out of 4 super bowls you think of Bellichick - Brady - Bruschi - Vinatieri. And probably in that order. Hell, a couple years ago the Pats weren't going to resign Bruschi. He didn't go with the money he stayed with the Pats. He showed loyalty to the Pats, not the other way around. The Pats stick to their guns, but sometimes there's exceptions to the rule. Vinatieri is one of those exceptions.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    PHX
    Posts
    225
    Hahahah Patriots Are Gonna Suck!

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Medford, MA
    Posts
    6,354
    It is no shock that the Pats undervalue almost everyone. Evenutually it will catch up to them and blow up in their face.

    Last year they started to slip and their FA pickups were horrendous. Starks, Beisel and Chad Brown.

    I think Bellichek and Pioli have been reading their press clipping too much and should worry about keeping some of their good players.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    3,156
    Quote Originally Posted by Loyalty
    So is the way you are refuting his argument. I agree with Crugel if the Patriots think the price tag is too high and want some fiscal discipline that is fine. The Nalen article is bunk. I bet the Patriots sign a few free agents this off-season. One could argue that we did the same thing to our guys (Trevor, Mike, and Jeb) or Ian Gold 2 years ago. However, the truth be told was they weren't willing to compromise with the Broncos or they would still be here. Vinateri wanted to be the highest paid kicker and the Patriots didn't want spend that much probably because they trying to give Richard Seymour a new contract (he will be a FA next year). I hear all these applauds for the Colts in signing Vinateri but why didn't they put their money to their own free agents E. James and D. Thorton? I guess they weren't loyal either. I am not a Patriot fan but to say that the Patriots aren't loyal to their players and no one wants to go there is ridiculous. What I see is the Patriots are loyal to their fans by not overspending on a kicker.
    Of course, any responsible team won't fall into the trap of spending big money on guys that don't deserve it, but when the time comes for our quality players to become free agents, we pay them what they are actually worth. The Patriots seem willing to pass on giving any of their deserving players good contracts. And that works fine if you can be successful enough in the draft and free agency to maintain that endeavor, but sooner or later, you will have some bad luck in the draft and free agency and you will wish that you had retained some of your talent.

    I agree with what you say regarding Vinateri. The guy is overrated. I mean, he's considered an elite kicker for making just a couple of kicks that happened to win Superbowls. Now, he is a good kicker, but the Patriots offered him a good kicker contract and he refused it, so I don't blame them for Vinateri, but overall, I consider them too quick to get rid of their best players unless their best players are willing to be undervalued.

    Now, as for my favorite Broncos team, I prefer them to be fiscally responsible, but I also prefer that they pay guys like Rod Smith and Al Wilson and our best players what their worth. This helps attract other guys to the team that would prefer to have a chance to earn the types of contracts that they deserve. People that sign with us know that they can earn some good money if they show results on the field and I think that's how it should be.
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