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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Breaking down Javons value

    Well there is alot of thoughts out there about Javon Walker and whether he is worth trading for or not. Especially now that some sources are stating it may take a 2nd rd pick to get him (thanks for that infor Cugel). I just wanted to post my thoughts on this matter. In my gut I knew which way I am leading, but I thought I would put it in ink (or type), to try and think it out. See if it makes sense logically as well. So here we go....

    The Pros

    Starting with a quick check of #37 over the last ten yrs:

    2005 - Shaun Cody
    2004 - Teddy Lehman
    2003 - Jon Stinchcomb
    2002 - Jon Stinchcomb
    2001 - Idrees Bashir
    2000 - Travis Claridgeashir
    1999 - Jon Jansen
    1998 - Robert Holcombe
    1997 - Jerry Wunsch
    1996 - Kavika Pittman


    Not exactly a whose who list of HOF'ers. In that respect I think there is a MUCH higher chance of busting with #37 vs busting with Javon. He has demonstrated a pro bowl year in his last year of play prior to the injury. He has proven he can play in the NFL at star level.

    I think Javon is a great WR, and his addition would also have a ripple effect for our draft. Currently many think that Denver will have to take a WR @#15, as we have little depth, and Lelie will likely leave this season or next. Like many of you I dont want #15 to be a WR, and with Javon in tow, that will free up #15 to be used elsewhere.

    To continue that thought, I believe that there is a much higher chance of picking a bust WR @15 (Chad or Santonio), then by sticking with Javon. WR's have one of the highest bust rates of any position in the draft. The choice is between a WR who has proven he can play at a pro bowl level in the NFL vs a WR who has only proven he can play in college. I will take the guy that has already shown he can succeed at this higher level.

    In addition, Javon is much more likely to help us this yr, then say a rookie. WR is one of the more difficulty positions to adjust to in the NFL, and it typically takes years before the WR begins to be really productive.

    To really drive the point home, lets look at the 2 scenarios, assuming we take a WR with #15, which is a probablity as we have little depth, and Lelie may be leaving.

    In essence we have a choice, what would you rather have:

    Chad Jackson + #37 pick
    or
    Javon Walker + #15 pick.

    I would choose Javon and the #15.

    This post is probably longer than it needs to be. I should just include this last line as an argument for Javon

    2004: 89 receptions for 1,382 yards and 12 touchdowns.

    The Cons

    Javon had an ACL injury in 2005. The plus is that it happened early in the year, so he will have had one full yr when the season opens. Unfortunately some say that it can take 2 yrs to come back fully from the ACL injury.

    Salary is another major issue, yes maybe we are getting more of a sure thing, by selecting Javon vs selecting a random player @#37, but we will pay for that. Javon will cost head and shoulders more than a typical 2nd rd pick would cost.

    Some would list his attitude as a negative, while I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Last year he ended up reporting, and didnt cause too much trouble. He never spouted off against anyone, doesnt insult his teammates etc, is not known as being a cancer for those attempting to make the TO comparisons. He probably got some bad advice from Rosenhaus (who he later fired), and then made a bad decision by listening to him. Unfortunately the situation being what it is now, I can understand him not wanting to play. Green Bay is Brett Favre, every word form his mouth, is like the word of god. And when Brett went against Javon, thats it, the whole town was against him. He is not happy with his work environment and cant play with/for the guy who sold him out. I really dont believe him holding out now, is about the money. The smarter move money wise, is to play this year out, and then get your big payday next yr. He has to know that he will be discounted because of his injury.


    Verdict

    I think Javon is worth the price of admission. A second rd pick is costly, and I would love to get it done with a 3rd or 4th, but if thats the only way, so be it.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,936
    Quote Originally Posted by ydave77
    Well there is alot of thoughts out there about Javon Walker and whether he is worth trading for or not. Especially now that some sources are stating it may take a 2nd rd pick to get him (thanks for that infor Cugel). I just wanted to post my thoughts on this matter. In my gut I knew which way I am leading, but I thought I would put it in ink (or type), to try and think it out. See if it makes sense logically as well. So here we go....

    The Pros

    Starting with a quick check of #37 over the last ten yrs:

    2005 - Shaun Cody
    2004 - Teddy Lehman
    2003 - Jon Stinchcomb
    2002 - Jon Stinchcomb
    2001 - Idrees Bashir
    2000 - Travis Claridgeashir
    1999 - Jon Jansen
    1998 - Robert Holcombe
    1997 - Jerry Wunsch
    1996 - Kavika Pittman


    Not exactly a whose who list of HOF'ers. In that respect I think there is a MUCH higher chance of busting with #37 vs busting with Javon. He has demonstrated a pro bowl year in his last year of play prior to the injury. He has proven he can play in the NFL at star level.

    I think Javon is a great WR, and his addition would also have a ripple effect for our draft. Currently many think that Denver will have to take a WR @#15, as we have little depth, and Lelie will likely leave this season or next. Like many of you I dont want #15 to be a WR, and with Javon in tow, that will free up #15 to be used elsewhere.

    To continue that thought, I believe that there is a much higher chance of picking a bust WR @15 (Chad or Santonio), then by sticking with Javon. WR's have one of the highest bust rates of any position in the draft. The choice is between a WR who has proven he can play at a pro bowl level in the NFL vs a WR who has only proven he can play in college. I will take the guy that has already shown he can succeed at this higher level.

    In addition, Javon is much more likely to help us this yr, then say a rookie. WR is one of the more difficulty positions to adjust to in the NFL, and it typically takes years before the WR begins to be really productive.

    To really drive the point home, lets look at the 2 scenarios, assuming we take a WR with #15, which is a probablity as we have little depth, and Lelie may be leaving.

    In essence we have a choice, what would you rather have:

    Chad Jackson + #37 pick
    or
    Javon Walker + #15 pick.

    I would choose Javon and the #15.

    This post is probably longer than it needs to be. I should just include this last line as an argument for Javon

    2004: 89 receptions for 1,382 yards and 12 touchdowns.

    The Cons

    Javon had an ACL injury in 2005. The plus is that it happened early in the year, so he will have had one full yr when the season opens. Unfortunately some say that it can take 2 yrs to come back fully from the ACL injury.

    Salary is another major issue, yes maybe we are getting more of a sure thing, by selecting Javon vs selecting a random player @#37, but we will pay for that. Javon will cost head and shoulders more than a typical 2nd rd pick would cost.

    Some would list his attitude as a negative, while I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Last year he ended up reporting, and didnt cause too much trouble. He never spouted off against anyone, doesnt insult his teammates etc, is not known as being a cancer for those attempting to make the TO comparisons. He probably got some bad advice from Rosenhaus (who he later fired), and then made a bad decision by listening to him. Unfortunately the situation being what it is now, I can understand him not wanting to play. Green Bay is Brett Favre, every word form his mouth, is like the word of god. And when Brett went against Javon, thats it, the whole town was against him. He is not happy with his work environment and cant play with/for the guy who sold him out. I really dont believe him holding out now, is about the money. The smarter move money wise, is to play this year out, and then get your big payday next yr. He has to know that he will be discounted because of his injury.


    Verdict

    I think Javon is worth the price of admission. A second rd pick is costly, and I would love to get it done with a 3rd or 4th, but if thats the only way, so be it.

    What do you guys think?

    As long as its not a first......GET HIM!!

  3. #3
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    I think it would be madness not to give up a second for Walker. Thts my take.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spice 1
    I think it would be madness not to give up a second for Walker. Thts my take.

    If wanting Walker to be a Bronco is wrong..................


    I don't wanna be right.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipes7
    If wanting Walker to be a Bronco is wrong..................


    I don't wanna be right.
    I wanna be filthy.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2005
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    1,351
    I would gladly do #37 for Javon, look for a 3rd for Lelie, and use 15 on something other than WR.

    DeAngelo at 15
    Javon for 37

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jletourneau
    I would gladly do #37 for Javon, look for a 3rd for Lelie, and use 15 on something other than WR.

    DeAngelo at 15
    Javon for 37
    Im glad youre not in charge.

  8. #8
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by jletourneau
    I would gladly do #37 for Javon, look for a 3rd for Lelie, and use 15 on something other than WR.

    DeAngelo at 15
    Javon for 37
    Excatly how I am thinking right about now.

    Javon for #37!

  9. #9
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    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by ydave77
    Some would list his attitude as a negative, while I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Last year he ended up reporting, and didnt cause too much trouble. He never spouted off against anyone, doesnt insult his teammates etc, is not known as being a cancer for those attempting to make the TO comparisons. He probably got some bad advice from Rosenhaus (who he later fired), and then made a bad decision by listening to him. Unfortunately the situation being what it is now, I can understand him not wanting to play. Green Bay is Brett Favre, every word form his mouth, is like the word of god. And when Brett went against Javon, thats it, the whole town was against him. He is not happy with his work environment and cant play with/for the guy who sold him out. I really dont believe him holding out now, is about the money. The smarter move money wise, is to play this year out, and then get your big payday next yr. He has to know that he will be discounted because of his injury.
    1. Doesn't "spout off" against anyone.

    2. Doesn't insult his teammates.

    3. Fired Rosenhaus.

    GO GET HIM!!

    -----

  10. #10
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    27 29 S / 153 8 E
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    Quote Originally Posted by ydave77
    Well there is alot of thoughts out there about Javon Walker and whether he is worth trading for or not. Especially now that some sources are stating it may take a 2nd rd pick to get him (thanks for that infor Cugel). I just wanted to post my thoughts on this matter. In my gut I knew which way I am leading, but I thought I would put it in ink (or type), to try and think it out. See if it makes sense logically as well. So here we go....

    The Pros

    Starting with a quick check of #37 over the last ten yrs:

    2005 - Shaun Cody
    2004 - Teddy Lehman
    2003 - Jon Stinchcomb
    2002 - Jon Stinchcomb

    2001 - Idrees Bashir
    2000 - Travis Claridgeashir
    1999 - Jon Jansen
    1998 - Robert Holcombe
    1997 - Jerry Wunsch
    1996 - Kavika Pittman


    Not exactly a whose who list of HOF'ers. In that respect I think there is a MUCH higher chance of busting with #37 vs busting with Javon. He has demonstrated a pro bowl year in his last year of play prior to the injury. He has proven he can play in the NFL at star level.

    I think Javon is a great WR, and his addition would also have a ripple effect for our draft. Currently many think that Denver will have to take a WR @#15, as we have little depth, and Lelie will likely leave this season or next. Like many of you I dont want #15 to be a WR, and with Javon in tow, that will free up #15 to be used elsewhere.

    To continue that thought, I believe that there is a much higher chance of picking a bust WR @15 (Chad or Santonio), then by sticking with Javon. WR's have one of the highest bust rates of any position in the draft. The choice is between a WR who has proven he can play at a pro bowl level in the NFL vs a WR who has only proven he can play in college. I will take the guy that has already shown he can succeed at this higher level.

    In addition, Javon is much more likely to help us this yr, then say a rookie. WR is one of the more difficulty positions to adjust to in the NFL, and it typically takes years before the WR begins to be really productive.

    To really drive the point home, lets look at the 2 scenarios, assuming we take a WR with #15, which is a probablity as we have little depth, and Lelie may be leaving.

    In essence we have a choice, what would you rather have:

    Chad Jackson + #37 pick
    or
    Javon Walker + #15 pick.

    I would choose Javon and the #15.

    This post is probably longer than it needs to be. I should just include this last line as an argument for Javon

    2004: 89 receptions for 1,382 yards and 12 touchdowns.

    The Cons

    Javon had an ACL injury in 2005. The plus is that it happened early in the year, so he will have had one full yr when the season opens. Unfortunately some say that it can take 2 yrs to come back fully from the ACL injury.

    Salary is another major issue, yes maybe we are getting more of a sure thing, by selecting Javon vs selecting a random player @#37, but we will pay for that. Javon will cost head and shoulders more than a typical 2nd rd pick would cost.

    Some would list his attitude as a negative, while I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Last year he ended up reporting, and didnt cause too much trouble. He never spouted off against anyone, doesnt insult his teammates etc, is not known as being a cancer for those attempting to make the TO comparisons. He probably got some bad advice from Rosenhaus (who he later fired), and then made a bad decision by listening to him. Unfortunately the situation being what it is now, I can understand him not wanting to play. Green Bay is Brett Favre, every word form his mouth, is like the word of god. And when Brett went against Javon, thats it, the whole town was against him. He is not happy with his work environment and cant play with/for the guy who sold him out. I really dont believe him holding out now, is about the money. The smarter move money wise, is to play this year out, and then get your big payday next yr. He has to know that he will be discounted because of his injury.


    Verdict

    I think Javon is worth the price of admission. A second rd pick is costly, and I would love to get it done with a 3rd or 4th, but if thats the only way, so be it.

    What do you guys think?
    I don't know...

    But it must be awesome to be named Jon Stinchcomb.... drafted at the same position in the draft TWO YEARS IN A ROW!!!!!

    I wanna be named Jon Stinchcomb!!!!
    Last edited by BroncoFanCam; 04-20-2006 at 08:59 PM.

  11. #11

    interesting. . .

    i just posted this in another thread a few minutes ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish
    i feel i've been pretty vocal about wanting to trade for walker. . . . i sure like that move head and shoulders better than drafting some rookie WR who hasn't proven anything, and will likely take 2-3 years learning to play before contributing anything serious. . . .

    i'm curious how others feel about giving #37 for him though. . . given my choice between that and spending #15 on a WR, i'll take it, but i can't help feeling that it's a pretty steep price considering he's coming off and injury and demanding a trade. . . . damn the stinkin' punk eagles for driving his price up!! if not them, i suppose it would have been someone else anyways. . .


    looks like you're on top of it! awesome post man, i owe ya a CP as soon as i have some more. . . .


    and no, the post wasn't too long, there's nothing wrong with providing as much info as possible to make an accurate analysis, and i think you pretty much covered the bases. . . it's always nice to read objective, well thought-out posts instead of "ashley sux, we nede javon" or some meaningless junk like that. . .

    Officially Objectified by the GPA

    rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    135
    Quote Originally Posted by ydave77
    Verdict

    I think Javon is worth the price of admission. A second rd pick is costly, and I would love to get it done with a 3rd or 4th, but if thats the only way, so be it.

    What do you guys think?

    I like your logic. It makes sense to me. The only thing that worries me is just how much he can contribute effectively in this coming year. I understand that it takes two years to fully recover from an ACL. If he can adequately replace Lelie, then I say do it, otherwise it's back to the drawing board(or is it "draft" board?).
    "I've always thought that Raider fans in Oakland were not so much fans as they were 50,000 people out on a work-release program." - John Elway.

  13. #13
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    The only way Im in favor of acquiring this troubled young man (lol i had to say it) is if Lelie in fact pulls a Walker and demands a trade immediately and threatens to retire.

    My best offer to the Packers would be an early third, that is if they even want to trade Walker at this point.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcrobins
    I like your logic. It makes sense to me. The only thing that worries me is just how much he can contribute effectively in this coming year. I understand that it takes two years to fully recover from an ACL. If he can adequately replace Lelie, then I say do it, otherwise it's back to the drawing board(or is it "draft" board?).
    At any rate the area of most concern with Lelie is intermediate routes and hanging on to the ball.

    Well.... if Javon takes time to "get back to normal", he may not be able to run far or fast, but maybe he can do something about the intermmediate routes, and we know he has good hands.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    135
    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanCam
    At any rate the area of most concern with Lelie is intermediate routes and hanging on to the ball.

    Well.... if Javon takes time to "get back to normal", he may not be able to run far or fast, but maybe he can do something about the intermmediate routes, and we know he has good hands.

    But you still have to get seperation in the intermediate routes. That's the part that I am not sure about.

    By the way, can anyone think of another receiver in the last couple of years that had a similar injury and came back in one year without too much problems?
    "I've always thought that Raider fans in Oakland were not so much fans as they were 50,000 people out on a work-release program." - John Elway.

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