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  1. #18511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapping Turtle View Post
    Well, I hate to change th subject....but Larry Walker didn't make the HOF. No surprise there if you ask me. I wish he would have made it, but maybe next time. He got 20.3% percent of the vote, so...it could go either way for him really.

    I want a Rockies player in the Hall dangit. Well, Todd better get there but that won't be for awhile.
    looks like we'll have to wait until next year. Walker will get in someday. mark my words.

    I'm 100% Todd will eventually too

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  2. #18512
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    Quote Originally Posted by #1snake_fan View Post
    If it were only the rich teams that make it to the post season every year then why has Tampa Bay made it twice in the last three ? years including to he World Series in 2008.

    By a lot of fans standards it always comes down to the same teams meaning Boston and New York ... Sadly Boston wasn't in the playoffs this year and that has happened twice also in 2006. So the team that has the third highest payroll didn't even make it to the playoffs this season.

    Third Highest ? ... Who has the second ? ... I'll tell you (sorry big Craig Ferguson fan)

    The Chicago Cubs ... WHAT ?!?!?!?!!!

    Thats right the Chicago Cubs have more money then the Boston Red Sox and they are a terrible team.

    In fact the Cubs (second highest payoll) haven't made the post season since 2007. and lasted all of three games.

    Not to mention they haven't won the World Series since 1908. Let that sink in over 100 years

    So Again

    MONEY DOES NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
    i don't think you read my post clearly.
    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
    it can help, but yes, I do agree.
    I even said in my last post you still gotta be smart with money and personal. the sox and yankees are. cubs and mariners aren't

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  3. #18513
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
    looks like we'll have to wait until next year. Walker will get in someday. mark my words.

    I'm 100% Todd will eventually too
    Larry Walker in the HOF? I'm not sure if that is going to happen because he played OF. He never hit the 400 HR mark and he's nearly 800 hits shy of 3,000. Awesome stats, but because he is an OF, I think the writers will hold him to higher statistical standards than someone like Roberto Alomar or Barry Larkin (who many think gets in next year). Alomar and Larkin played middle IF and thus they didn't have to put up as big of numbers as the writers attach to OFs.

    Helton won't be banging on the HOF doors either. He doesn't have 400 HRs or 3000 hits and he plays the most offensive oriented position in the game.

    Both Walker and Helton compare, stat wise, to guys like Fred McGriff and Will Clark; those guys aren't in the HOF.

    Baseball writers are quirky about who they let into the HOF, and at this point, I don't see Walker or Helton getting into the HOF on the writer's vote.

    One big thing they do have going for them is that their names have both been kept out of the roid talk.

    I like Walker's chances over Helton because Walker has an MVP. These two guys are probably the greatest Rockies of all time, but they aren't MLB HOF players.

  4. #18514
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    Quote Originally Posted by #1snake_fan View Post
    If it were only the rich teams that make it to the post season every year then why has Tampa Bay made it twice in the last three ? years including to the World Series in 2008.

    By a lot of fans standards it always comes down to the same teams meaning Boston and New York ... Sadly Boston wasn't in the playoffs this year and that has happened twice also in 2006. So the team that has the third highest payroll didn't even make it to the playoffs this season.

    Third Highest ? ... Who has the second ? ... I'll tell you (sorry big Craig Ferguson fan)

    The Chicago Cubs ... WHAT ?!?!?!?!!!

    Thats right the Chicago Cubs have more money then the Boston Red Sox and they are a terrible team.

    In fact the Cubs (second highest payoll) haven't made the post season since 2007. and lasted all of three games.

    Not to mention they haven't won the World Series since 1908. Let that sink in over 100 years

    So Again

    MONEY DOES NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS
    Boston 2010 payroll: ~$162 mil
    Cubs 2010 payroll: ~$147 mil
    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries/teams
    http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

    Regardless, you are right that money doesn't buy championships, but it can help.

    It is kind of the same idea of money doesn't buy happiness, but it can get rid of obstacles on your way to happiness. In regards to baseball, paying someone like Derrek Lee $160 mil (or whatever the Yanks offered) would not have made him a better pitcher, nor would it have guaranteed against the unforeseen such as injuries or illness. If he plays like he is supposed to, does a player like Lee make most teams better? Absolutely. But that is why the game is played.

    I think that is one of the great things about baseball. The better team on paper doesn't always win. Giants for example had an offense that didn't scare anyone on paper, but players stepped up to the challenge.


    On topic of the Rockies, just because they spent $134 on 7 years for Tulo and $80 mil on 7 years on Cargo does not make them a big spender. The Rockies always have spent according to income, which put us about a mid market team. Problem is, the past years a LOT of money was going to players that either are past their prime (Helton) or players that were no longer with the team (Mike Hampton, signed an 8 year $120 deal for the 2001 season and Danny Neagle for 5 years $51 million). Hampton was the big one that crippled the payroll with dead money and scared the crap out of the Monforts into spending that kind of money on free-agents, preferring to give it to farm players who had proven they could play in Colorado with success.

    Fact is, the Rox are paying Tulo about 19 mil a year when his extension hits in 2013 and Cargo 11 mil. If they were making that money this year, that would put Tulo at #7 highest paid, and Cargo wouldn't crack the top 25 (paid under players like Hiroki Kuroda and Vernon Wells). It is a chunk of change, but Helton deferring $13 of his $19 mil salary over the next 10 years also helped and I think the Hampton deal is finally done (or close to it, depending on what they settled).

  5. #18515
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    I have my doubts about Todd making the HOF. I think "the other shoe will drop" and he wont get in.

  6. #18516
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    Quote Originally Posted by TecmoElway View Post
    Larry Walker in the HOF? I'm not sure if that is going to happen because he played OF. He never hit the 400 HR mark and he's nearly 800 hits shy of 3,000. Awesome stats, but because he is an OF, I think the writers will hold him to higher statistical standards than someone like Roberto Alomar or Barry Larkin (who many think gets in next year). Alomar and Larkin played middle IF and thus they didn't have to put up as big of numbers as the writers attach to OFs.

    Helton won't be banging on the HOF doors either. He doesn't have 400 HRs or 3000 hits and he plays the most offensive oriented position in the game.

    Both Walker and Helton compare, stat wise, to guys like Fred McGriff and Will Clark; those guys aren't in the HOF.

    Baseball writers are quirky about who they let into the HOF, and at this point, I don't see Walker or Helton getting into the HOF on the writer's vote.

    One big thing they do have going for them is that their names have both been kept out of the roid talk.

    I like Walker's chances over Helton because Walker has an MVP. These two guys are probably the greatest Rockies of all time, but they aren't MLB HOF players.
    Todd is 92nd all time with 333 career dingers. He has a career .324 average. (That's a very good average for a career)

    He's also one of the best fielding first basemen of all time as well. Lou Gehrig is considered the best of all time. Helton has a career .996 fielding percentage (which is better than gehrig's .991) and has saved the rockies a LOT of errors. He has lot a step or two in recent years, but he still has a great eye and doesn't strike out too much.

    As for Walker, he was 17 short. He did have some injury problems during his career and he didn't always play for Colorado. AND this was his FIRST YEAR ON THE BALLOT and got 20% of votes. Players usually don't make it first time around.

    They'll both be in the hall of fame someday.
    Last edited by BroncoFanBoy; 01-06-2011 at 09:34 PM.

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  7. #18517
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    Sorry dude, but I gotta respectfully disagree on both Walker and Helton. 20% isn't that good for a first time vote. Guys like Barry Larkin who get 40 - 50% for the first time have the best chances.

    As for Helton, yes, his career average is impressive, but I still say the writers will look at the awards such as MVP, and compare his numbers power wise to someone like a Pujols and not let him in. If a guy like Fred McGriff isn't in, Helton can forget it.

    Anyhow, we agree to disagree. Let's keep tabs on it for the next 10 years.

    So, let's get a topic going. What's the 2011 lineup and batting order going to look like this season?

  8. #18518
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    Quote Originally Posted by CinnaMunMun View Post
    Boston 2010 payroll: ~$162 mil
    Cubs 2010 payroll: ~$147 mil
    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries/teams
    http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

    Regardless, you are right that money doesn't buy championships, but it can help.

    It is kind of the same idea of money doesn't buy happiness, but it can get rid of obstacles on your way to happiness. In regards to baseball, paying someone like Derrek Lee $160 mil (or whatever the Yanks offered) would not have made him a better pitcher, nor would it have guaranteed against the unforeseen such as injuries or illness. If he plays like he is supposed to, does a player like Lee make most teams better? Absolutely. But that is why the game is played.

    I think that is one of the great things about baseball. The better team on paper doesn't always win. Giants for example had an offense that didn't scare anyone on paper, but players stepped up to the challenge.


    On topic of the Rockies, just because they spent $134 on 7 years for Tulo and $80 mil on 7 years on Cargo does not make them a big spender. The Rockies always have spent according to income, which put us about a mid market team. Problem is, the past years a LOT of money was going to players that either are past their prime (Helton) or players that were no longer with the team (Mike Hampton, signed an 8 year $120 deal for the 2001 season and Danny Neagle for 5 years $51 million). Hampton was the big one that crippled the payroll with dead money and scared the crap out of the Monforts into spending that kind of money on free-agents, preferring to give it to farm players who had proven they could play in Colorado with success.

    Fact is, the Rox are paying Tulo about 19 mil a year when his extension hits in 2013 and Cargo 11 mil. If they were making that money this year, that would put Tulo at #7 highest paid, and Cargo wouldn't crack the top 25 (paid under players like Hiroki Kuroda and Vernon Wells). It is a chunk of change, but Helton deferring $13 of his $19 mil salary over the next 10 years also helped and I think the Hampton deal is finally done (or close to it, depending on what they settled).
    The Yankees offered a Firstbase man $160 million to pitch ? wow that's brave lol You were thinking of Cliff Lee ... just giving you a hard time lol

    I agree that teams have to be smart with their money unlike Boston with Daisuke Matsuzaka who with the exception of one year has been a complete BUST.

    The point i was making was teams that have money and choose not to spend it have no right to cry about teams that will spend the cash they have. Just because you're a "small" market team doesn't mean you won't win.

    Would Colorado like to have Mark Texieria of course they would ... who wouldn't but the have a damn good first baseman and they have a hell of a shortstop (better than Jeter by a lot) they have a better pitching staff then given credit for having (Ubaldo is a freak and should have won the Cy Young award this season) so on paper the Yankees apear to have the better team than a lot of other major league teams when they don't.

    And money can buy happiness ... Money pays for my tattoos ... tattooing myself makes me happy so therefore money bought me happiness

  9. #18519
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    Quote Originally Posted by #1snake_fan View Post
    The Yankees offered a Firstbase man $160 million to pitch ? wow that's brave lol You were thinking of Cliff Lee ... just giving you a hard time lol

    I agree that teams have to be smart with their money unlike Boston with Daisuke Matsuzaka who with the exception of one year has been a complete BUST.

    The point i was making was teams that have money and choose not to spend it have no right to cry about teams that will spend the cash they have. Just because you're a "small" market team doesn't mean you won't win.

    Would Colorado like to have Mark Texieria of course they would ... who wouldn't but the have a damn good first baseman and they have a hell of a shortstop (better than Jeter by a lot) they have a better pitching staff then given credit for having (Ubaldo is a freak and should have won the Cy Young award this season) so on paper the Yankees apear to have the better team than a lot of other major league teams when they don't.

    And money can buy happiness ... Money pays for my tattoos ... tattooing myself makes me happy so therefore money bought me happiness
    Oops, thanks for catching that Although watching Derrek Lee pitch would be hilarious!

    but I agree with your point like the others.

  10. #18520
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    Quote Originally Posted by CinnaMunMun View Post
    Oops, thanks for catching that Although watching Derrek Lee pitch would be hilarious!
    but I agree with your point like the others.
    just like watching him play firstbase lol

  11. #18521
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    Quote Originally Posted by TecmoElway View Post
    Sorry dude, but I gotta respectfully disagree on both Walker and Helton. 20% isn't that good for a first time vote. Guys like Barry Larkin who get 40 - 50% for the first time have the best chances.

    As for Helton, yes, his career average is impressive, but I still say the writers will look at the awards such as MVP, and compare his numbers power wise to someone like a Pujols and not let him in. If a guy like Fred McGriff isn't in, Helton can forget it.

    Anyhow, we agree to disagree. Let's keep tabs on it for the next 10 years.

    So, let's get a topic going. What's the 2011 lineup and batting order going to look like this season?
    First, Walker still has many years to try and get in. Most of the time, players don't get elected on their first try unless they play for the Yankees or something. It took Floyd Little 35 years to get in. next year will give walker an advantage because mark mcgwire and rafael palmero are on the ballot and we know what they did. Steroids.

    We'll see what happens next year.

    Now as for the lineup: Not sure about the exact order in the lineup, but I'm sure the following will be our starters: Helton at first, Eric Young Jr at 2nd(I'm gonna predict he will be our starter. either him or Jose Lopez) Tulo at SS, Ian Stewart at 3rd (im sure he and Wigginton will share) Cargo in left, Dexter Fowler in CF, and probably Ryan Spilborghs

    can't wait for the season and to go to some rockies games again!

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  12. #18522
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    Quote Originally Posted by CinnaMunMun View Post
    Oops, thanks for catching that Although watching Derrek Lee pitch would be hilarious!

    but I agree with your point like the others.
    Well, Derek Lee does play for the Orioles now. He'd be a better pitcher than some of their guys, I'm sure of that

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  13. #18523
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post

    Now as for the lineup: Not sure about the exact order in the lineup, but I'm sure the following will be our starters: Helton at first, Eric Young Jr at 2nd(I'm gonna predict he will be our starter. either him or Jose Lopez) Tulo at SS, Ian Stewart at 3rd (im sure he and Wigginton will share) Cargo in left, Dexter Fowler in CF, and probably Ryan Spilborghs

    can't wait for the season and to go to some rockies games again!
    EY Jr better start at second, he is the only person I can accept starting there with my boy gone. I'm wondering if Stew will start or not, I'm not really familiar with Wigginton...I'll be interested to see how competitive that spot gets in Spring Training.

    I'm also curious to see if Seth Smith might not start over Spilly.

    Only 83 days until opening day!
    ...capture it...remember it...

  14. #18524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snapping Turtle View Post
    EY Jr better start at second, he is the only person I can accept starting there with my boy gone. I'm wondering if Stew will start or not, I'm not really familiar with Wigginton...I'll be interested to see how competitive that spot gets in Spring Training.

    I'm also curious to see if Seth Smith might not start over Spilly.

    Only 83 days until opening day!
    you gonna start following the Astros?

    We've been after Wigginton for a while. We tried trading for him last July. He's got power, (22 homers in 2010) which should improve since he will now play home games at Coors Field, but his average sucked. He did strike out 116 times in 2010, and he used to be a good fielder, but sucked at it in 2010 (had 21 errors and .902 percentage at third base)

    I expect Stewart to start at 3B next year

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  15. #18525
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoFanBoy View Post
    you gonna start following the Astros?

    We've been after Wigginton for a while. We tried trading for him last July. He's got power, (22 homers in 2010) which should improve since he will now play home games at Coors Field, but his average sucked. He did strike out 116 times in 2010, and he used to be a good fielder, but sucked at it in 2010 (had 21 errors and .902 percentage at third base)

    I expect Stewart to start at 3B next year
    Of course I am. I'm just waiting for him to get a number then I'm getting a tshirt jersey.

    21 errors? Puke. Thanks for the info on him, I was so busy when we got him that I never really looked him up. I'm being a failure at learning about our new guys. Once Spring Training starts though I'll be on top of it. I'm sooo excited for baseball season!
    ...capture it...remember it...

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