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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javalon
    Just a little article on SI.com:

    Thanks for brinnging this to the forum my man. It's both exciting and encouraging to see that Cutler is taking steps forward.
    John 11: 25-27

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC
    All anyone has to do is look if how the number or running attempts widened vesrse passing attempts you can see the offense was scaled back. Shanahan DID say the offense was SCALED back WTM.
    Bingo TX, and if I could give you another contribution point I would. This is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned playing to your strengths. Glad somebody here understands.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dream
    I agree with you whole-heartedly. I didn't feel the need to go out and label Plummer a game manager because I thought that'd add unnecessary fire to this thread that wasn't needed. I know that the smart fans like you, (admire your knowledge) could already see that in the first place. I've always felt that Plummer has benefited more from the team around him that him actually being a benefit to the team. I do believe Jake is the best chance for us to win now, but I have no doubts that Jay couldn't have similar success if he were to start this year.

    I think Cutler's the kind of quarterback who can go out and win games for you. By win, I also mean put away games. If the Broncos are down 24-23, I don't feel confident in Plummer to go out and win games for us. Now, I don't think I'd feel confident with Jay being back there just yet either, but I don't think I'd feel any uneasier with him than I would Plummer.

    I'm excited to see what this can do, but until he proves that he deserves the job -- I'll continue to support Plummer as our quarterback right now, but anyone should know that Cutler is the future, and to me I hope it's sooner than later. Not because of how I feel about Jake, but how I feel about us using such a high selection on someone and my belief that if you invest that much into.

    Regardless of who is back there, I'm hoping for the best. But there is no reason why the Broncos shouldn't win the Super Bowl this year. The talent is there, people just have to play up to it. That includes Jake, and if he can't help lead the team to a Lombardi Trophy this year, let's see what the kid can do if he's ready.

    a few questions....( not geared to you specifically, but your post just brought up some thoughts )

    1. Jake gets harped on for being a manager of the game, wouldn't that be exactly what Jay would be if he was put in now with a good team around him??

    2. How does anyone know Jay could "put away games"? He won 11 in 4 years...how can anyone say he can do that??

    3. Wouldn't Jay be benifiting from the team around him also, just like Jake does? Is that a bad thing?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman
    Right on schedule for week 3....

    Yeah, now would you like comment about the topic of thread. This isn't a discussion about Cutler starting in week three of this season.
    Last edited by TXBRONC; 08-05-2006 at 07:33 PM.
    John 11: 25-27

    My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams

    http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2...iamssigwj2.jpg

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  5. #20
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    1. Jake gets harped on for being a manager of the game, wouldn't that be exactly what Jay would be if he was put in now with a good team around him??

    Yeah, but there could be a difference -- but if Jay showed the ability to win and put away games through his skills and abilities, I wouldn't give him the label of manager. You ask a fair question, but this is also why I said I don't believe that there would be much of a difference in success if Jay started now over Jake because I believe with Jay's skill set and knowledge, he'd have the ability to "manage" games in the same manner Plummer did.

    2. How does anyone know Jay could "put away games"? He won 11 in 4 years...how can anyone say he can do that??


    I'm not sure how much of Jay you saw throughout college, but football is a team game, and it's awfully hard to win games when you're playing in a tough SEC conference with a poor team Jay was on. Jay was one of the only bright stars on the Vanderbilt team. Also, Jay playing for a losing team has nothing to do with how successful he can be in the NFL. Watching numerous drives Jay had led to keep Vanderibilt in the game and the fact that he led teams to victory shows me that he has the ability to do great things with a good coaching staff and core of players around him.

    3. Wouldn't Jay be benifiting from the team around him also, just like Jake does? Is that a bad thing?


    All great players benefit from who they have around him, and no it's not a bad thing -- but there are people who would love to have a quarterback they can rely on and not feel shaky about if the game is on the line and we're looking for a win. I feel shaky when it comes to Plummer in that regard, and through the course of time -- I hope Jay can silence any doubts you, myself or anyone has about him in that regard. But to answer your question, yeah -- Jay would benefit from having this team around him, but the real kicker comes in when the question of "who can utilize this talent better" is brought up.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchthemiddle
    a few questions....( not geared to you specifically, but your post just brought up some thoughts )

    1. Jake gets harped on for being a manager of the game, wouldn't that be exactly what Jay would be if he was put in now with a good team around him??
    Well, one big difference would be that Jay is a rookie and Jake is a 10 year vet. I think there's an obvious difference in seeing a rookie "manage" a game and a seasoned veteran.

    2. How does anyone know Jay could "put away games"? He won 11 in 4 years...how can anyone say he can do that??
    We don't know. What we do know is that Jake isn't doing it either. After 10 years in the league (three of them with us), you would like to see the QB have the ability to "put away games."

    I know he had a record in AZ as a comeback QB. We haven't seen it here in Denver. Alot of the time (especially this past season) we had a lead. But when you look at his stats when playing from behind, it's not that strong.

    130 att / 71 comp / 54.6% / 2 TD / 3 INT / 71.9 rating

    3. Wouldn't Jay be benifiting from the team around him also, just like Jake does? Is that a bad thing?
    Not at all, but even when John benefited from the talent around him, there were times when he had to be the man. With the most 4th qtr comebacks in NFL history, he developed a reputation that a game was NEVER over.

    Jake clearly doesn't have that rep.

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dream
    1. Jake gets harped on for being a manager of the game, wouldn't that be exactly what Jay would be if he was put in now with a good team around him??

    Yeah, but there could be a difference -- but if Jay showed the ability to win and put away games through his skills and abilities, I wouldn't give him the label of manager. You ask a fair question, but this is also why I said I don't believe that there would be much of a difference in success if Jay started now over Jake because I believe with Jay's skill set and knowledge, he'd have the ability to "manage" games in the same manner Plummer did.

    2. How does anyone know Jay could "put away games"? He won 11 in 4 years...how can anyone say he can do that??


    I'm not sure how much of Jay you saw throughout college, but football is a team game, and it's awfully hard to win games when you're playing in a tough SEC conference with a poor team Jay was on. Jay was one of the only bright stars on the Vanderbilt team. Also, Jay playing for a losing team has nothing to do with how successful he can be in the NFL. Watching numerous drives Jay had led to keep Vanderibilt in the game and the fact that he led teams to victory shows me that he has the ability to do great things with a good coaching staff and core of players around him.

    3. Wouldn't Jay be benifiting from the team around him also, just like Jake does? Is that a bad thing?


    All great players benefit from who they have around him, and no it's not a bad thing -- but there are people who would love to have a quarterback they can rely on and not feel shaky about if the game is on the line and we're looking for a win. I feel shaky when it comes to Plummer in that regard, and through the course of time -- I hope Jay can silence any doubts you, myself or anyone has about him in that regard. But to answer your question, yeah -- Jay would benefit from having this team around him, but the real kicker comes in when the question of "who can utilize this talent better" is brought up.
    Those are all fair and reasonable answers.

    2. I like your second answer about it being a TEAM game.

    3. Me too


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchthemiddle
    Those are all fair and reasonable answers.

    2. I like your second answer about it being a TEAM game.

    3. Me too

    I'd like to thank everyone for keeping things civil. I was just waiting for things to get out of hand again.

    Anyway, I actually like Jake. I think he's a solid QB and we can obviously win with him. It appears that our offensive weapons should be beefed up for him this year and I'm hoping he can take full advantage. Of course, he can't do anything about the defense so they need to step up as well.

    While I'm looking forward to seeing Cutler play in the future, this isn't the time, IMO. In a perfect world, Jake helps the Broncos win the Super Bowl this year and Cutler looks like a Pro Bowler in camp next year giving the Shanny an impossible dilemma next season.

    Judging by the articles I cited and various camp reports, Cutler is progressing very well but is obviously still a rookie. He's doing his part to be ready for next season so now it's up to Plummer to help us win the Super Bowl this year.

    Man, I'm ready for some FOOTBALL!
    "You can't take the sky from me..."
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman
    We don't know. What we do know is that Jake isn't doing it either. After 10 years in the league (three of them with us), you would like to see the QB have the ability to "put away games."

    I know he had a record in AZ as a comeback QB. We haven't seen it here in Denver. Alot of the time (especially this past season) we had a lead. But when you look at his stats when playing from behind, it's not that strong.

    130 att / 71 comp / 54.6% / 2 TD / 3 INT / 71.9 rating
    That's one of the great things about the way this preseason is shaping up. The Broncos appear to have the deepest WR group in years. STill have a solid line. Have questions at RB, but hopefully one of the Bells will step up, and are ok at TE, and better than ok if Scheffler can win the job.

    So, while there are still questions, Jake should have the a good group of talent around him and we will see if it was Jake holding the team back or the team holding Jake back.
    The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt


  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnedator
    That's one of the great things about the way this preseason is shaping up. The Broncos appear to have the deepest WR group in years. STill have a solid line. Have questions at RB, but hopefully one of the Bells will step up, and are ok at TE, and better than ok if Scheffler can win the job.

    So, while there are still questions, Jake should have the a good group of talent around him and we will see if it was Jake holding the team back or the team holding Jake back.
    OK, not to start an arguement here, but why would there be a question about the team "holding" Jake back?

    Are you implying that Jake's better stats (with the team in the lead) might not be due to Jake, but rather his supporting staff?

    I'm happy about the WR position, but if Jake "earned" his overall stats last season, then he earned the bad stuff too.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnedator
    That's one of the great things about the way this preseason is shaping up. The Broncos appear to have the deepest WR group in years. STill have a solid line. Have questions at RB, but hopefully one of the Bells will step up, and are ok at TE, and better than ok if Scheffler can win the job.

    So, while there are still questions, Jake should have the a good group of talent around him and we will see if it was Jake holding the team back or the team holding Jake back.
    Thinking back I can't think of a time where we have ever had a WR corp as deep as this one potentially is. Even in the Super Bowl runs of '97 and '98 who did we have outside of McCaffery and Smith? We had Willie Anderson and but he didn't make many plays from what I remember.
    John 11: 25-27

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC
    Thinking back I can't think of a time where we have ever had a WR corp as deep as this one potentially is. Even in the Super Bowl runs of '97 and '98 who did we have outside of McCaffery and Smith? We had Willie Anderson and but he didn't make many plays from what I remember.

    We do look deep and its without Lelie. THis whole Lelie thing could be a blessing in disguise. Give guys like Watts a 3rd chance...LOL...and Marshall a chance to shine.

    This team needs more play makers and other targets for Jake to look for besides Rod and an occasional deep route.

    Its kind of hard to excel at the QB position if you are limited with the talent around you. Maybe this year it will be different.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman
    OK, not to start an arguement here, but why would there be a question about the team "holding" Jake back?

    Are you implying that Jake's better stats (with the team in the lead) might not be due to Jake, but rather his supporting staff?

    I'm happy about the WR position, but if Jake "earned" his overall stats last season, then he earned the bad stuff too.
    I am implying nothing, I am stating that if this WR group is as deep as it looks, it will no longer be an issue of discussion. As it stands, the last few years we have had mediocre talent on offense.

    The last couple years it has been run, run, pass to rod, run, pass to rod, run, run, pass impcomplete to someone other than rod.

    Now there is Walker as the number one or two receiver to go with Rod, and hopefully a reliable third WR. We have not had a reliable second and third wide out for a while.

    We have not had a Macaffrey like receiver that always made the third down catches.

    I am not interested in an argument, because I AM NOT SAYING THAT IT WASN'T JAKE'S FAULT. What I said and am saying, is that if the WR group is as deep and talented as it looks, then if Jake can't get it done this year, than it would be hard to argue that it is the team holding him back.
    The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt


  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchthemiddle
    We do look deep and its without Lelie. THis whole Lelie thing could be a blessing in disguise. Give guys like Watts a 3rd chance...LOL...and Marshall a chance to shine.

    This team needs more play makers and other targets for Jake to look for besides Rod and an occasional deep route.

    Its kind of hard to excel at the QB position if you are limited with the talent around you. Maybe this year it will be different.
    Exactly. It isn't to say that Jake hasn't made any mistakes, but even a great QB would be limited if he doesn't have consistant threats to throw to.
    The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchthemiddle
    We do look deep and its without Lelie. THis whole Lelie thing could be a blessing in disguise. Give guys like Watts a 3rd chance...LOL...and Marshall a chance to shine.

    This team needs more play makers and other targets for Jake to look for besides Rod and an occasional deep route.

    Its kind of hard to excel at the QB position if you are limited with the talent around you. Maybe this year it will be different.

    I agree. Even though I like Lelie (but I can't stand how he is acting right now) I believe you're rigth. This could be a blessing in disguise.
    John 11: 25-27

    My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams

    http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2...iamssigwj2.jpg

    Thanks Snk16

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