Will Peyton Be the Next Marino?

[str8jacket]

I should have said RINGS ALONE, don't define a career. Look back at my posts, I said I look at the TOTAL picutre.


And to your post above, you are right, this is not challenging fight, I'm mopping the floor with you.

mopping the floor with me?

South, you cant mop something with just a stick and not the moptop

Rings alone? They shouldnt be used in the argument mainly because ITS A TEAM GAME which is something you cant seem to grasp

I have at least based my argument on stats instead of beliefs

[str8jacket]

The reality is that stats don't really mean a whole lot in the big picture. Manning has amazing stats, Favre has amazing stats, Young had amazing stats and even Plummer has promising looking stats....

the truth is that the stats you read on a sheet of paper or the back of a playing card or a web-page at year's end don't tell the whole truth about the greatness or weakness of a player.

The game itself shows that Marino was amazing, but he was never as good as Elway and Elway was never the caliber or championship winner that Montana was.

Like it or not, the players don't care about their own stats, so why should we? They only care about how many games they win and how many Superbowls they make it to and win. If that's not the point then why even play the game? Why do the players make such a big deal out of losing or not making the playoffs or not winning the Conference Championship games....why? because they all know that the only game that really defines their careers is that on big one played at the end of the year.

So don't come at us with stats, because even your stats tell me that Marino didn't come close to Elway. And if you want to argue stats, then many say the only stat that matters is the one in the 'W' column and according to your stats Elway is the greatest (and you can do the math on that taking into account the number of games played by each QB)....but we all know Montana stands alone.

Stats alone mean enough to me, because once again, as i have stated, one man cant win a Super Bowl alone, therefore rings are just a moot point

[RealBronco]

Stats alone mean enough to me, because once again, as i have stated, one man cant win a Super Bowl alone, therefore rings are just a moot point

I've seen plenty of "teams" win because of only one man. Think about how it was for Elway before Davis and McCaffrey etc arrived. Sure those previous three Superbowl teams were amazing but in the end, the only offense they had was Elway....

And look at the Colts... If they don't have Peyton Manning, they're just another okay team with some good receivers who probably don't win as much.

And the ONLY reason the New England Patriots have three Superbowl rings is because of one man. Adam Viniatieri. If he misses those three game winning kicks, the Patriots are 3 time Superbowl losers...and no one cares about them.

So yeah ONE man can win games.... and that #4 is the perfect example. All three of New England's Superbowls were decided by three points. And who made sure they got them? You know it. Dont' be surprised if the Colts beat the Bears by three points...and then I'll come back and remind you that ONE man can have all the talent needed to get an entire "TEAM" their precious rings....

And since it's a team game then this whole argument is really moot because it shouldn't matter if your quarterback sucks or is the greatest thing ever to hit the field....if the team plays well together they should win right?

So why even make room for standouts? Then there's no greatest running back argument or receiver argument or defensive player argument or kicker argument or coach argument....

Just admit it. Marino doesn't hold a candle to Elway and Montana.

[str8jacket]

I've seen plenty of "teams" win because of only one man. Think about how it was for Elway before Davis and McCaffrey etc arrived. Sure those previous three Superbowl teams were amazing but in the end, the only offense they had was Elway....

And look at the Colts... If they don't have Peyton Manning, they're just another okay team with some good receivers who probably don't win as much.

And the ONLY reason the New England Patriots have three Superbowl rings is because of one man. Adam Viniatieri. If he misses those three game winning kicks, the Patriots are 3 time Superbowl losers...and no one cares about them.

So yeah ONE man can win games.... and that #4 is the perfect example. All three of New England's Superbowls were decided by three points. And who made sure they got them? You know it.

And since it's a team game then this whole argument is really moot because it shouldn't matter if your quarterback sucks or is the greatest thing ever to hit the field....if the team plays well together they should win right?

So why even make room for standouts? Then there's no greatest running back argument or receiver argument or defensive player argument or kicker argument or coach argument....

Just admit it. Marino doesn't hold a candle to Elway and Montana.

You could argue though, (while i agree on the Viniatieri) Brady did indeed put them into position for the field goal to actually happen

It all comes down to how well your team executes and unfortunatly skill plays a factor as well.

Could you honestly name Marino's Offensive weapons at the prime of his career off the top of your head?

How about Montana?

And finally Elway?

[RealBronco]

You could argue though, (while i agree on the Viniatieri) Brady did indeed put them into position for the field goal to actually happen

It all comes down to how well your team executes and unfortunatly skill plays a factor as well.

Could you honestly name Marino's Offensive weapons at the prime of his career off the top of your head?

How about Montana?

And finally Elway?

Well Montana's are easy. He had Jerry Rice, a decent running game, J.J. Stokes, and the rest of a talented receiving corps.

Marino sadly no. I can't name any off the top of my head....perhaps because he was never really surrounded with talent.

And even Elway, he wasn't either until really Davis, McCaffrey and Sharpe came along. I mean sure there were great receivers throughout all of those great games (like the two AFC Championship games against Cleveland). And there was always a running game, maybe not what we have now but there was the beginning of one.

I see your points. I just believe that Marino (while great, don't get me wrong, I haven't yet said he doesn't deserve to be up there) wasn't as great as Montana or Elway. I also would say he got shafted in who he played for. Look at how many championships Barry Sanders would have won if he played for a decent team. Or LaDanian Tomlinson. And there are plenty others.

I just don't think Marino had it. And unless Manning up and wins 3 or 4 Superbowls before he retires, he'll be in the same boat. You can have all the stats in the world but they won't mean a thing if he doesn't win any sort of game that matters.

[omac]

Well, everyone has their own opinions, and that's cool, but honestly ....

Do you think Marino wouldn't win one or two superbowls with the Shanahan Broncos Elway had?

and

Do you think Elway could win one superbowl with the Miami teams Marino's had?

Tough to think that even Montana could win with those Dolphin teams.

[RealBronco]

Well, everyone has their own opinions, and that's cool, but honestly ....

Do you think Marino wouldn't win one or two superbowls with the Shanahan Broncos Elway had?

and

Do you think Elway could win one superbowl with the Miami teams Marino's had?

Tough to think that even Montana could win with those Dolphin teams.

if only we could go back and switch things up like that.

[omac]

if only we could go back and switch things up like that.

Yeah, I always wanted Marino to win one. Too bad he didn't keep the laces out on the field goal attempt ...

[str8jacket]

Well Montana's are easy. He had Jerry Rice, a decent running game, J.J. Stokes, and the rest of a talented receiving corps.

Marino sadly no. I can't name any off the top of my head....perhaps because he was never really surrounded with talent.

And even Elway, he wasn't either until really Davis, McCaffrey and Sharpe came along. I mean sure there were great receivers throughout all of those great games (like the two AFC Championship games against Cleveland). And there was always a running game, maybe not what we have now but there was the beginning of one.

I see your points. I just believe that Marino (while great, don't get me wrong, I haven't yet said he doesn't deserve to be up there) wasn't as great as Montana or Elway. I also would say he got shafted in who he played for. Look at how many championships Barry Sanders would have won if he played for a decent team. Or LaDanian Tomlinson. And there are plenty others.

I just don't think Marino had it. And unless Manning up and wins 3 or 4 Superbowls before he retires, he'll be in the same boat. You can have all the stats in the world but they won't mean a thing if he doesn't win any sort of game that matters.

Thank you!

unlike SOME people here you actually listened, I just honestly think that Marino didnt have the kind of talent around him Elway had, and would have been just as effective i think with the same team

[tommy1986]

Greatest of all time is too subjective. It begs questions like: "Well, this guy had more passing yards, TDs etc." or "He couldn't win the big one." That said, statistically in most of the major categories, Manning will be #1 by the time he's done.

[RealBronco]

Yeah, I always wanted Marino to win one. Too bad he didn't keep the laces out on the field goal attempt ...

hahahahahahahahahaha.... "laces out dan!!! what do you know about...PRESSURE!"

[Snk16]

Ask me after the Super Bowl.

[theshiverman]

Payton has a better chance of winning a SB then Dan had, Marino never had a running back or running game worth a damn when he played, Payton has had Marshall Faulk, Edgerrin James and now Joseph Addai, im thinking Marino may have gotten at least one super bowl title if he had a runner like Edgerrin James for 5 or 6 years making people respect the run , because Marino always had to deal with defenses that didnt respect the run and he still made the Hall of Fame (Elways still better then them both...hehe)

[omac]

hahahahahahahahahaha.... "laces out dan!!! what do you know about...PRESSURE!"

hehehe, you saw that too, huh? Marino's hillarious!

[BarkdogRX7]

This thread closes itself now right? lol...

I suppose not, is my answer