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  1. #1
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    Angry Pro Football Talk doesn't like Shannahan much...

    POSTED 11:18 p.m. EDT, May 29, 2007

    KIRCUS CIRCUS STINKS TO US

    We wrote earlier in the day about the lie detector test that was imposed (supposedly) on Broncos receiver David Kircus. We've now had a chance to eyeball some quotes from Coach Kevlar on the subject, and we're more skeptical than before about the whole thing.

    Here's what Coach K had to say:

    "To address the situation that we had last week: We talked about David Kircus, and we talked about the scenario that existed with him," Shanahan said. "David came to me and said, 'Hey, Coach, I guarantee you that I did not take the first swing. I defended myself. I probably used poor judgment being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    "I said, 'Well, David, I'll give you a chance to take a lie-detector test,' and he wanted to do that, and he passed it with flying colors, so he will be on our football team.

    "Obviously it was somebody that does it for a living -- an FBI agent -- who (administered) it. They're experienced in that area. He gave us the results. They asked the tough questions -- did you defend yourself, did you take the first swing, or who took the first swing. There were three or four questions that were asked different ways, and according to the person who took it, it was 100 percent.

    "If he flunked the test, he would not be with us. He wanted to take the test. He said, 'Coach, if I flunk it, I won't be on this football team. If I do pass it, I'll be on this team.' I said, 'Hey, that's fair enough for me.' Anybody that wants to go in there and take a lie detector test where his career is based on whether it comes out positive or negative, I've got a good feeling."

    We're not as conversant in the nuances of the laws of the State of Colorado, but we don't think that the whole concept of self-defense when a punch is thrown contemplates jacking the person who threw the punch in the face with a fist (or, as the case may be, a sock full of pennies). The guy needed surgery to repair broken bones in his face; in our view, then, the question of who threw the first punch isn't relevant to the question of whether Kircus beat the crap out of the guy.

    Then again, the whole concept of self-defense is applied a little loosely in Colorado, where it's okay to shoot a guy who is sitting in his car outside your house because he might try to come back inside and hit you with a sock full of pennies.

    Still, the questions that supposedly were posed to Kircus aren't in any way controlling on whether the elements of the defense are met. It's now fairly obvious that Kircus beat the guy up -- the question is whether Kircus can prove that the specific outcome was necessary under the circumstances.

    The other thing that continues to trouble us is the willingness of the Broncos to use a lie-detector test on players. There's a certain federal law known as the Employee Polygraph Protection Act of 1988, and it's a violation of this law if an employee is disciplined or discharged for failing to submit to a test or based on the results of a lie-detector test.

    And while the Collective Bargaining Agreement precludes most potential player lawsuits, employee rights created by statute in some cases survive the grievance process contained in a CBA. In English, the Broncos could have been sued if Kircus had failed the test, and had been cut.

    Also, we think that the NFLPA has standing to do something to force the Broncos to abandon this practice, which Coach Kevlar admits that he has used with other players.

    "I've done it a number of times," he said. "It's been very good for us over the years -- at least my experience with it."

    Finally, why in the hell does Coach Kevlar think that passing a lie detector test means anything? There's a reason why the results of polygraph tests aren't admissible in a court of law. But in Coach Kevlar's world, passing a lie-detector test in conclusive proof of innocence.

    People have asked us in the past why we don't like Coach Kevlar very much. We never had concrete proof to support of general sense of disdain for the guy. Until now.

  2. #2
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    Did anyone catch the local Denver Fox news last night? The dumb sportscaster and his little opinion filled rant, followed by the Blog with me crap. I could give a crap less what some football reporter has to say about the Broncos or our coach. I could give another crap less what some writer has to say about the Broncos or our coach.

    The man is one of the winningest coaches of his timespan, and these peons want to question him. Take the microphone out of your yap, the pen out of your finger and you go out and complete the same job he has with the same success. Until you can do that....sit down at your measely little desk and have a nice fat cup of ****!

    Tired of the media and all of their bs.
    Last edited by Archimedes Owl; 05-31-2007 at 05:05 AM.
    Ready for the friggen season already!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giveemlove
    Did anyone catch the local Denver Fox news last night? The dumb sportscaster and his little opinion filled rant, followed by the Blog with me crap. I could give a crap less what some football reporter has to say about the Broncos or our coach. I could give another crap less what some writer has to say about the Broncos or our coach.

    The man is one of the winningest coaches of his timespan, and these peons want to question him. Take the microphone out of your yap, the pen out of your finger and you go out and complete the same job he has with the same success. Until you can do that....sit down at your measely little desk and have a nice fat cup of S T F U!

    Tired of the media and all of their bs.
    I understand bein upset with the media as a bronco fan, but lets face it, and kircus said it himself... maybe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Look, as a raider fan i definitely dont care very much for the media either.... however, kircus is the only one that can control his own actions. Maybe he'll learn from this, and learn to keep out of certain situations.
    "Chillez was right Brock is best champ in the UFC, I Jump on Mir bandwagon and he got crushed."

    Chillez won the sig bet. Congrats. Up next for brock? Fedor... stay tuned.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by OaklandxxRaider
    I understand bein upset with the media as a bronco fan, but lets face it, and kircus said it himself... maybe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Look, as a raider fan i definitely dont care very much for the media either.... however, kircus is the only one that can control his own actions. Maybe he'll learn from this, and learn to keep out of certain situations.

    So, should football players sit home and not go out? Because anywhere they go some Joe Schmoe can come up with a plan to hit their pockets within seconds. The media and half of the fans already had him guilty. I agree with what Shanny did, he difused the situation in order to move on to more important things. His whole camp and the next 2 months shouldn't be focused on a #5-7 WR. It's done in his eyes and he can move on to what's really important.
    Ready for the friggen season already!

  5. #5
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    I read this article too and they just like to cause trouble and get rumours and talk going, they are called "pro football talk" and I doubt a positive opinion on the matter would be very interesting. I don't know what the hell's up with this Kircus situation I've been following it from the start and I can't help thinking how stupid the whole thing is. I've been to parties that have gotten out of hand and fights have gone down but nothing happened after the fight. I don't know what exactly happened I don't know if we ever will but this guy regardless of the outcome of a criminal investigation will be starting a lawsuit for sure against a pro athlete. Who's to say he didn't have that in mind and baited David into a fight knowing the outcome and what he had to gain, or maybe even he just didn't like David and wanted to ruin his career. Even if it was Kircus's fault how can he possibly be facing 2-6 years in prison? I'm from Canada so maybe our legal system is a little different up here but I doubt had it been me I'd get more then probation or community service. Anyways my point is this issue is ridiculous and it's just a case of someone making a mistake(Kircus) by putting himself in such a bad position and if he truly did defend himself which I think is more likely although it's so hard to prove these things especially when words are being hurled back and forth. I'll tell you this much, if he gets off with no charges or at worst I think probation I think he almost helped himself. This is all the media has talked about for weeks now besides our good friend MV and as I learned when I took my marketing degree at University no publicity is bad publicity and his name is that much more known for his next contract even more so if he's found innocent. By the way since when has Shanny been called coach Kevlar I don't get it?

  6. #6
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    Here's my problem with the outrage: it was NOT REQUIRED! Kircus was in hot water, and, from the sounds of Shanahan's statements, he voluntarily submitted to the polygraph with his employment determined by the results: that's a far, FAR cry from requiring one. This would be a disturbing trend if all players were "requested" to take one, but one isolated (and, noted again, voluntary) test does not represent a egomaniacal dictatorship.

    And does anyone doubt that, if Kircus is found guilty, he will remain with the team? This is (IMO) a temporary reprieve until the legal process comes to a firm conclusion.

    Oh, and the little rant on how you can shoot someone in a car outside your house in Colorado is complete, 100% Grade A BS. You do have the right to defend yourself in your own home, but if it is determined that your actions were not on scale with the threat, you're in some serious trouble. Shooting someone in a car outside your home would get you locked away.

    Otherwise, I completely agree with the author...
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -Yogi Berra

    "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OaklandxxRaider
    I understand bein upset with the media as a bronco fan, but lets face it, and kircus said it himself... maybe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Look, as a raider fan i definitely dont care very much for the media either.... however, kircus is the only one that can control his own actions. Maybe he'll learn from this, and learn to keep out of certain situations.
    Well, it seems to me that Kircus certainly bit the bullet here.

    I'm with you: I hope he learns by this, and the rest of the team, too, for that matter.

    -----

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giveemlove
    Did anyone catch the local Denver Fox news last night? The dumb sportscaster and his little opinion filled rant, followed by the Blog with me crap. I could give a crap less what some football reporter has to say about the Broncos or our coach. I could give another crap less what some writer has to say about the Broncos or our coach.

    The man is one of the winningest coaches of his timespan, and these peons want to question him. Take the microphone out of your yap, the pen out of your finger and you go out and complete the same job he has with the same success. Until you can do that....sit down at your measely little desk and have a nice fat cup of S T F U!

    Tired of the media and all of their bs.
    Here Here bro!!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giveemlove
    So, should football players sit home and not go out? Because anywhere they go some Joe Schmoe can come up with a plan to hit their pockets within seconds. The media and half of the fans already had him guilty. I agree with what Shanny did, he difused the situation in order to move on to more important things. His whole camp and the next 2 months shouldn't be focused on a #5-7 WR. It's done in his eyes and he can move on to what's really important.
    No, im not saying the players should just sit at home and do nothing. What im sayin is, learn from this extreme example, and try not to involve yourself in situations that could possibly hurt your career. I agree that camp shouldnt be focused on a #5-7 WR, however, even with his minimal role, what he does affects the whole organization. Basically, as long as he can live and learn from this experience, then so be it.
    "Chillez was right Brock is best champ in the UFC, I Jump on Mir bandwagon and he got crushed."

    Chillez won the sig bet. Congrats. Up next for brock? Fedor... stay tuned.

  10. #10
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    Wow, I actually agree with Pro Football Talk--not about Shanny, but about the whole thing seeming strange and unrealistic. It doesn't make sense at all.

  11. #11
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    People point to the inconsistencies with a lie detector but you can find just as many inconsistencies with the legal system. Justice and the truth don't always coincide. I applaud Shanny for taking action. How many other teams would give their players this chance and have the player take it? I don't see other more troubled teams taking this route.

    Whether you like it or not, we have entered a new age in the NFL under the leagues subjective discipline policy. I'm waiting for the day when a player is suspended for misconduct and then later cleared by a court of law. Then what???

    The league wanted a subjective policy and now they have it. Shanny should be applauded for being proactive and using the tools available to him to make a decision.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronx4me
    Here Here bro!!
    Actually Giveemlove is woman and an attractive one at that in my opinion.
    John 11: 25-27

    My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams

    http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2...iamssigwj2.jpg

    Thanks Snk16

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OaklandxxRaider
    No, im not saying the players should just sit at home and do nothing. What im sayin is, learn from this extreme example, and try not to involve yourself in situations that could possibly hurt your career. I agree that camp shouldnt be focused on a #5-7 WR, however, even with his minimal role, what he does affects the whole organization. Basically, as long as he can live and learn from this experience, then so be it.
    I totally agree on learning a lesson from the whole thing, I'm just sick of the media creating a monster and then having a fit when someone does something to shut down their monster.

    Player made a bad decision.
    Media blows it up completely prior to even knowing what the situation was.
    Media can't let it lie until the court date.
    Coach took measures to end the speculation.
    Media takes pot shots at said coach.

    Get over it, go find another story.

    This little rant that the guy went on lasted a full 2 minutes. Previously in the broadcast they took 30 seconds to note that a man had been found not guilty of killing 2 teenagers even after the guy admitted to shooting the gun at the scene. Pathetic much?
    Ready for the friggen season already!

  14. #14
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    Classic example of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC
    Actually Giveemlove is woman and an attractive one at that in my opinion.
    I've never been so happy to be wrong lol...

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