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  1. #1
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    Who's Hot & Who's Not

    Well, with one week down and in the books for 2007 training camp, I thought we should give a little wrap-up as to who is turning heads, and who is making us wince (with much gratitude to Kaylore, So Cal, Mindfield, Andrew Mason and others who have been gracious enough to keep all of us updated!):

    Who's hot:

    Jay Cutler - clearly having a great camp. Sure he has some off times, but overall it sounds like there is zip on his passes, he is making good reads, is working hard and making a lot of progress

    Travis Henry - after he settled into things, I've not heard really any bad comments about him. He seems to be running with authority, getting more comfortable with his blockers, and bowling into people (just ask Lynch).

    Javon Walker - set to have an All-Pro type year. He is going to to Pro Bowl this year and looks already to be in mid-season form.

    Brandon Stokely - filling in nicely into his temporary #2 wide position. This is looking like a steal for Sundquist and Co.

    Brian Clark - sounds like with the expanded opportunity for playing time due to injuries, he has really stepped up. When you have players like Bailey, Javon, Cutler and Rod talking about him, you know he must be doing something right. I can't really see how he would ever be more than a ST contributor, but its nice to know he has something there in case.

    Tom Nalen - solid, reliable, veteran leadership on the line. Lets hope the question marks get filled around him.

    Sam Adams - even though he's a renter, what a pickup if he stays healthy! Sounds like his play so far has been dominant. He's big, quick, explodes into blocking schemes and disrupts the backfield. Awesome! He's also filling some of the leadership gap from Al's departure (whom we all miss).

    Jarvis Moss - I think aside from the little knee scare the other day, most reports are very positive from him. Reports of his burst and ability to contribute on pass situations sound completely on target, and it sounds like he is picking things up very well. It sounds like Bates has a good feeling about him.

    Tim Crowder - another impressive rookie DE. Making his mark against the run, should develop into a consistent player for us. People are now comparing him to Courtney Brown without the injuries. Lets hope they're right!

    Bly & Bailey (and the entire secondary) - Wow! Show me someone who's not salivating over the prospect of what our secondary could be with all this talent and I'll show you a Raider/Chiefs/Chargers fan. Bailey is Bailey (no surpise that he's on top of his game), but Bly sounds like everything we had hoped for. Even reports of his non-aggressive tackling seem so far to have been exaggerated. Abdullah sounds like the heir-apparent to Lynch. Crazy that we are crazy with talent here after not drafting a safety.

    Who's Not:

    Brandon Marshall - in the end, I feel bad for the guy. Lingering injuries really aren't anyone's fault. Still, there's only so many times a coach can tell a player he needs to get healthy and start practicing before he finds himself in the doghouse. He's got a TON of talent, but needs to be able to practice and show it off. For his sake it better be soon.

    Alvin McKinley - talk about getting lost in the shuffle. He went from projected starter when we signed him to 3rd/4th team behind Kennedy, Adams, and Thomas. Now it looks like he's just fighting to keep a spot on the team.

    Kenard Lang - I agree with others here on the board, its confusing that he is where he is on the depth chart. Its almost as if he was never really given a chance this time around. Regardless, he appears to be on his way out unless something dramatic happens in preseason or Shanahan and Co finally decide to quit their infatuation with Engelberger.

    Mike Bell - Again, someone who seems like they have a ton of talent, who's game seems to fit in well with the scheme here. He was very productive in his rookie year, but it may be a matter of what have you done for me lately. His inconsistency and ability to look like an all-pro one day, and a waterboy the next have slipped him in the cellar of the depth chart. Perhaps he should petition Henry to get #20 back.

    Patrick Ramsey - okay, I know he's shown improvement as of late. Still, his early performance and general inconsistency has placed him in this category. Lets just hope Jay stays healthy (c'mon O-line!)

    Too Early To Tell:

    DJ Williams - the guy is a player! I'm not doubting his talent, his level of play or anything else. Its just that he's been up and down which is to be expected of someone adapting to a new position. Only time will tell (I think he'll have a breakout year but you have to admit it could just as easily go the other way).

    The flock of LBs competing for starting SAM - who knows anymore. How can anyone get any consistency with the rotating depth chart? I don't even know who the projected starter is here and neither does anyone else. It will have to come out in the preseason games, who brings their A game and who doesn't. Those left standing will hopefully be adequate (I personally like either Webster - if he can keep his helmet on - or DD).

    Scheffler - just coming back from a foot fracture. With that and the weight issue lets hope that too many variables haven't been changed from last year and that he can regain his prior chemistry in the passing game with Cutler.

    Rod Smith - boy, you just want him to come back strong and finish and go out on top don't you? I don't see it happening, and I think he'll move into coaching at some point or another. But I'm all for him trying to come back. Still, I wouldn't want to lose a Stokely, Hixon or even Marshall for that matter to keep Rod if he's realistically not going to play.

    Marcus Thomas - the only questions here (for me anyway) are about how quickly he is able to adapt to the NFL game of DT and get back in football shape. I think eventually he'll make his mark but its just a matter of time.

    The rest of the O-lineman not named Tom Nalen - lets face it, there are four big question marks here. Lepsis pretty much just in terms of how he comes back from injury (and can he stay healthy), Hamilton would be solid if he weren't dinged up right now. On the other side, is is Kuper or Holland? Kuper looked to be the deal until his 3 sack performance the other day that got him yanked. Finally on the end Pears hopefully will be okay in his natural position. If not, the pickings are slim as Meadows is just a place filler.

    Daniel Graham - its hard with him to put him somewhere. You almost want to break him up and put his blocking in the Hot category and his receiving in the ? category. I think he'll definitely help the run game, and has been showing this in practice. The issue is his seperation speed and quickness. I think his effectiveness in the passing game will be directly related to the quality of receiving talent on the field with him that the defense has to pay attention to. If he can slip out under the radar he could be a big target (much like the pats used him).

    Well, let me know if you agree, disagree, or think others should be on the list. Looking forward to your thoughts.....
    Maybe we should resign Rahim Moore so he could finally get the chance to knock down a Joe Flacco pass?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humberg View Post
    Well, with one week down and in the books for 2007 training camp, I thought we should give a little wrap-up as to who is turning heads, and who is making us wince (with much gratitude to Kaylore, So Cal, Mindfield, Andrew Mason and others who have been gracious enough to keep all of us updated!):

    Who's hot:

    Jay Cutler - clearly having a great camp. Sure he has some off times, but overall it sounds like there is zip on his passes, he is making good reads, is working hard and making a lot of progress

    Travis Henry - after he settled into things, I've not heard really any bad comments about him. He seems to be running with authority, getting more comfortable with his blockers, and bowling into people (just ask Lynch).

    Javon Walker - set to have an All-Pro type year. He is going to to Pro Bowl this year and looks already to be in mid-season form.

    Brandon Stokely - filling in nicely into his temporary #2 wide position. This is looking like a steal for Sundquist and Co.

    Brian Clark - sounds like with the expanded opportunity for playing time due to injuries, he has really stepped up. When you have players like Bailey, Javon, Cutler and Rod talking about him, you know he must be doing something right. I can't really see how he would ever be more than a ST contributor, but its nice to know he has something there in case.

    Tom Nalen - solid, reliable, veteran leadership on the line. Lets hope the question marks get filled around him.

    Sam Adams - even though he's a renter, what a pickup if he stays healthy! Sounds like his play so far has been dominant. He's big, quick, explodes into blocking schemes and disrupts the backfield. Awesome! He's also filling some of the leadership gap from Al's departure (whom we all miss).

    Jarvis Moss - I think aside from the little knee scare the other day, most reports are very positive from him. Reports of his burst and ability to contribute on pass situations sound completely on target, and it sounds like he is picking things up very well. It sounds like Bates has a good feeling about him.

    Tim Crowder - another impressive rookie DE. Making his mark against the run, should develop into a consistent player for us. People are now comparing him to Courtney Brown without the injuries. Lets hope they're right!

    Bly & Bailey (and the entire secondary) - Wow! Show me someone who's not salivating over the prospect of what our secondary could be with all this talent and I'll show you a Raider/Chiefs/Chargers fan. Bailey is Bailey (no surpise that he's on top of his game), but Bly sounds like everything we had hoped for. Even reports of his non-aggressive tackling seem so far to have been exaggerated. Abdullah sounds like the heir-apparent to Lynch. Crazy that we are crazy with talent here after not drafting a safety.

    Who's Not:

    Brandon Marshall - in the end, I feel bad for the guy. Lingering injuries really aren't anyone's fault. Still, there's only so many times a coach can tell a player he needs to get healthy and start practicing before he finds himself in the doghouse. He's got a TON of talent, but needs to be able to practice and show it off. For his sake it better be soon.

    Alvin McKinley - talk about getting lost in the shuffle. He went from projected starter when we signed him to 3rd/4th team behind Kennedy, Adams, and Thomas. Now it looks like he's just fighting to keep a spot on the team.

    Kenard Lang - I agree with others here on the board, its confusing that he is where he is on the depth chart. Its almost as if he was never really given a chance this time around. Regardless, he appears to be on his way out unless something dramatic happens in preseason or Shanahan and Co finally decide to quit their infatuation with Engelberger.

    Mike Bell - Again, someone who seems like they have a ton of talent, who's game seems to fit in well with the scheme here. He was very productive in his rookie year, but it may be a matter of what have you done for me lately. His inconsistency and ability to look like an all-pro one day, and a waterboy the next have slipped him in the cellar of the depth chart. Perhaps he should petition Henry to get #20 back.

    Patrick Ramsey - okay, I know he's shown improvement as of late. Still, his early performance and general inconsistency has placed him in this category. Lets just hope Jay stays healthy (c'mon O-line!)

    Too Early To Tell:

    DJ Williams - the guy is a player! I'm not doubting his talent, his level of play or anything else. Its just that he's been up and down which is to be expected of someone adapting to a new position. Only time will tell (I think he'll have a breakout year but you have to admit it could just as easily go the other way).

    The flock of LBs competing for starting SAM - who knows anymore. How can anyone get any consistency with the rotating depth chart? I don't even know who the projected starter is here and neither does anyone else. It will have to come out in the preseason games, who brings their A game and who doesn't. Those left standing will hopefully be adequate (I personally like either Webster - if he can keep his helmet on - or DD).

    Scheffler - just coming back from a foot fracture. With that and the weight issue lets hope that too many variables haven't been changed from last year and that he can regain his prior chemistry in the passing game with Cutler.

    Rod Smith - boy, you just want him to come back strong and finish and go out on top don't you? I don't see it happening, and I think he'll move into coaching at some point or another. But I'm all for him trying to come back. Still, I wouldn't want to lose a Stokely, Hixon or even Marshall for that matter to keep Rod if he's realistically not going to play.

    Marcus Thomas - the only questions here (for me anyway) are about how quickly he is able to adapt to the NFL game of DT and get back in football shape. I think eventually he'll make his mark but its just a matter of time.

    The rest of the O-lineman not named Tom Nalen - lets face it, there are four big question marks here. Lepsis pretty much just in terms of how he comes back from injury (and can he stay healthy), Hamilton would be solid if he weren't dinged up right now. On the other side, is is Kuper or Holland? Kuper looked to be the deal until his 3 sack performance the other day that got him yanked. Finally on the end Pears hopefully will be okay in his natural position. If not, the pickings are slim as Meadows is just a place filler.

    Daniel Graham - its hard with him to put him somewhere. You almost want to break him up and put his blocking in the Hot category and his receiving in the ? category. I think he'll definitely help the run game, and has been showing this in practice. The issue is his seperation speed and quickness. I think his effectiveness in the passing game will be directly related to the quality of receiving talent on the field with him that the defense has to pay attention to. If he can slip out under the radar he could be a big target (much like the pats used him).

    Well, let me know if you agree, disagree, or think others should be on the list. Looking forward to your thoughts.....
    I think for Marcus Thomas to be #2 on the depth chart shows that he has proven to Bates he will be a contributor. It surprised me to see him as one of the top 4 since he's a rookie, so I think he's been HOT even though it may not jump out at our observers--it's jumped out at Bates.

  3. #3
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    I think Andre Hall deserves to be under Hot. He's made quite a bit of noise. I also don't think many people expected Cecil Sapp to be our #2 running back at this point.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humberg View Post

    Patrick Ramsey - okay, I know he's shown improvement as of late. Still, his early performance and general inconsistency has placed him in this category. Lets just hope Jay stays healthy (c'mon O-line!)
    Ramsey needs tons of credit. I love him as a back up!

    What people do not realize he has had to learn a new playbook every single year. Redskins turn over on the coaching side made him have to start from scratch every year. Then a year with the Jets...

    Now with the Broncos.

    That is a lot of different players throwing to.

    I think he has been doing excellent in training camp and has exceeded my expectations thus far.

    He is a soldier!

    He is very strong and always had a great arm. The biggest problem he has always had is holding on the ball to long and not the most accurate of the QB's.

    I also feel a little bad for him... He really has taken a pounding in the NFL while he played. When they first gave him a shot... he got injured and benched for the season. It was not his fault... The LB from the bears went right through that line and think it was like the first play.

    Wow though... 5 play books so far for him

  5. #5
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    Patrick Ramsey is bum and was a terrible pick up. The guy has zero upside.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humberg View Post
    Who's Not:

    Brandon Marshall - in the end, I feel bad for the guy. Lingering injuries really aren't anyone's fault. Still, there's only so many times a coach can tell a player he needs to get healthy and start practicing before he finds himself in the doghouse. He's got a TON of talent, but needs to be able to practice and show it off. For his sake it better be soon.



    Mike Bell - Again, someone who seems like they have a ton of talent, who's game seems to fit in well with the scheme here. He was very productive in his rookie year, but it may be a matter of what have you done for me lately. His inconsistency and ability to look like an all-pro one day, and a waterboy the next have slipped him in the cellar of the depth chart. Perhaps he should petition Henry to get #20 back.

    For the sake of Denver's success, Marshall better get healthy soon. Without Marshall, our WR position doesn't scare anybody.

    And I don't believe Mike Bell ever had alot of talent. IMHO he was a hard working player who made the absolute most of his ability last year, and will never be more than he already is. There is a reason why he went undrafted, but unfortunately for him he's in the one system that could make him an descent NFL player.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chukardog View Post
    Patrick Ramsey is bum and was a terrible pick up. The guy has zero upside.
    You're right. Denver should have gone after Bradley Van Pelt again.

  8. #8
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    i think Domenik Hixon should be listed under HOT.....i've read nothing but great things about him....and Bailey gave him props(which i read is a hard thing to do)
    [IMG]http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7518/bmarsh01siggf4.png[/IMG]
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    thanks Skywalker

  9. #9
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    How about young Hamza Abdullah.I've been a fan of this guy ever since we signed him to the practice team two years back.He's having an amazing camp so far.He is our answer at safety when Lynch retires.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
    For the sake of Denver's success, Marshall better get healthy soon. Without Marshall, our WR position doesn't scare anybody.

    And I don't believe Mike Bell ever had alot of talent. IMHO he was a hard working player who made the absolute most of his ability last year, and will never be more than he already is. There is a reason why he went undrafted, but unfortunately for him he's in the one system that could make him an descent NFL player.
    Marshall is not the key to the team's success. Henry is the key. Who cares if the talent on the WR corps doesn't scare anybody? As long as they do their job, it doesn't matter. Marshall is a second year player who hasn't even proven himself yet. It makes no sense that people keep touting him as the key to the passing game or the team's success. With the upgrades to the running game and tight ends, the offense should do just fine regardless of who the #2 WR is. When defenses are stacking the box to stop Henry, it's not going to matter if it's Stokley, Hixon, or Marshall, Javon Walker is going to get the ball and take it to the house. I have know idea why people seem to think Marshall is a superstar that the team can't do without. What has he done to earn that kind of status? I want Marshall to get healthy and return because I think he has a lot of potential, but I think we will be just fine with Stokley. We might be just fine, if not better, with Hixon in there if he keeps going the way he's going. The way people keep hyping Marshall is as bad as all the Mike Bell lovers who thought he even stood a chance at being the starting RB after Henry was signed. Even before Henry was signed, I was desperately hoping the Broncos would draft Marshawn Lynch because I didn't want to put my faith in an undrafted RB. Once Henry was signed, I was fine with whatever the team decided to do in the first round of the draft. Marshall isn't in the same boat as Mike Bell but he doesn't deserve all the hype he's getting by many on these boards. Marshall does stand a chance to be a starter but only if he can get healthy, stay healthy, and then go out and prove it on the field. Some people seem to think that he will be handed the starting job once he's healthy, but I think Stokley is going to push hard for it and Hixon just might surprise some people. In the end, I think the starting job will be between Stokley and Marshall and I'm fine with either one.
    Last edited by broncolee; 08-09-2007 at 09:22 AM.
    Negs are Cowardly Acts of Nonsense. I wont Back Down.
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  11. #11
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    Marshall had a amazing 20 receptions, behind a injured Rod Smith.

    Mike Bell had a amazing 20 recptions as a #2 RB.

    Tatum Bell managed a amamzing 24 recptions, with hands like blocks of wood.

    Stephen Alexander had 18 receptions, and he cant catch, jsut a blocker according to many.

    Marshall is not the be all end all, and personaly I dont see what a large group seem to see in the kid.

    For the doubters, Rod will be back, and be a part of the offense. Why? Simple enough, there just isnt anyone else on the list that is going to out perform him. (opinion is mine)

  12. #12
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    I basically agree with you here. Good thought-out post!

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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    Marshall is not the key to the team's success. Henry is the key. Who cares if the talent on the WR corps doesn't scare anybody? As long as they do their job, it doesn't matter. Marshall is a second year player who hasn't even proven himself yet.
    Did they do their job last year? Outside of Walker, no. Brandon Marshall is the only WR that can take pressure off of him.

    As far as Henry being the key, Portis was the key too, and he couldn't even help Denver win a playoff game. Portis > Henry. It has been proven, over the years, that Denver needs more then just their running game to win.



    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    It makes no sense that people keep touting him as the key to the passing game or the team's success. With the upgrades to the running game and tight ends, the offense should do just fine regardless of who the #2 WR is.
    Nobody's touting him as the "savior", but we do need him to help open up the passing game. Back 5-7ears ago when Denver had a far superior RB's, and TE's then what they have now, it certainly wasn't enough. And let's face it, Henry and Graham are no Portis and Sharpe. It's quite clear that Denver needs a well balenced offense to get the success they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    When defenses are stacking the box to stop Henry, it's not going to matter if it's Stokley, Hixon, or Marshall, Javon Walker is going to get the ball and take it to the house. I have know idea why people seem to think Marshall is a superstar that the team can't do without. What has he done to earn that kind of status?
    Nothing. Nobody's garning him a Superstar. Out of the WR's you listed, Stokley isn't going to draw any double teams or help away from javon, and Hixon likely won't even see the field much there. He'll likely be a return guy and thatis it. Remember, Darius Watts was the teams best WR in camp last year and we all know what happened to him. I won't expect anything from Hixon until he actually shows it. For anyone who saw the last 5 games of the year last season could clearly see that Marshall has the ability to do great things.



    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    way people keep hyping Marshall is as bad as all the Mike Bell lovers who thought he even stood a chance at being the starting RB after Henry was signed. Even before Henry was signed, I was desperately hoping the Broncos would draft Marshawn Lynch because I didn't want to put my faith in an undrafted RB. Once Henry was signed, I was fine with whatever the team decided to do in the first round of the draft. Marshall isn't in the same boat as Mike Bell but he doesn't deserve all the hype he's getting by many on these boards. Marshall does stand a chance to be a starter but only if he can get healthy, stay healthy, and then go out and prove it on the field. Some people seem to think that he will be handed the starting job once he's healthy, but I think Stokley is going to push hard for it and Hixon just might surprise some people. In the end, I think the starting job will be between Stokley and Marshall and I'm fine with either one.
    I find it ironic that you keep stating you see nothing in Marshall, but Hixon will "surprise". Hixon hasn't played a down in the NFL, and as far as training camp goes, it's pretty easy for a WR to line up and run his route without having to actually read the defense. Hixon might do some good things on the return game, but I don't see him even seeing the field on offense.

    Stokley, again, ytou have basically Rod Smith. A very good possession WR who isn't going to take the doubled up and Safety help away from Walker, which is a concern.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugan View Post
    For the doubters, Rod will be back, and be a part of the offense. Why? Simple enough, there just isnt anyone else on the list that is going to out perform him. (opinion is mine)

    Man I hope you're wrong. I love Rod Smith just as much as the next guy, but the guy is a mere shell of what he used to be, and is an average WR at best in the NFL today. Linebackers did a great job of covering him 1 on 1 last season.

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    He was injured, I dont think that can be understated.

    Yea age is taking its toll as well, but saying he was a shell with out taking into consideration his injury is a mistake.

    That being said, I just listed 4 of the top 6 recievers on the team. Road had 52 I think and Javon had 69.

    So its pretty hard to say Rod was much more than another cog in a broken offense.

    The offense was awful last year, we could have had Chad Johnson and whosyourdaddy with Javon and the offense wouldnt have been much better.

    (opinion)


    Again why all the support for Marshall? What is it that makes people think he is going to amount to anything more than a Watts or a Lelie?

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