It really is time to move on.

[Fantaztic7]

We're not spoiled. This is one of the winningest and proudest franchises in all of pro sports. Are some of you saying that we should just be ok with watching this franchise go downhill every year because the Browns and Cardinals suck every year? That makes no sense to me. I guess my child who is an A student should be allowed to start failing because her friends fail a lot.

There is a such thing as standards. Some people have high standards and some people have low standards. Typically people who have high standards are successful. This franchise has sold it's fanbase on high standards for decades. The current state of this team is completely unacceptable - especially since the franchise itself prides itself on being one of the best franchises in all sports.

I'm not content with shrugging my shoulders and telling myself it's all ok because the Browns are a bad franchise. We're not the Browns and I don't want to be.

Yes, we have a FEW good, young players. Unfortunately, this team has been infected with a myriad of bad draft choices, bad FA acquisitions and poor player retention. It has turned into a revolving door at coach, o-line, and QB.

I really don't understand why we should just pander to the lowest common denominator and pretend like it's alright just because other teams have been worse for longer. I really don't understand.

The Broncos have been one of the greatest franchises in all sports for a very long time. We really should not be satisfied with the current state of this team - especially since the franchise itself sells the fanbase on this very notion.

Don't be satisfied with low standards. It is not acceptable.

Well said.

If a person hired for a job performed well for three years and precipitously underperformed for three years, should they tell their manager “You’re spoiled. I did a great job for the first three years.” No, that’s not acceptable.

People aren’t spoiled because they expect the issues to be addressed. The Oakland Raiders won 3 Super Bowls. Their last trip to the Super Bowl was 2002. Their fans were spoiled and should have been content. Three Super Bowls is enough. The Broncos are fine after winning SB50.

[mozzerpete]

Well I'm sure glad you are not the GM to spend the first 4 picks on the oline.

You cannot deny that it could possibly fix our OL issues for our next QB.

But I understand your position,
allowing one of the greatest OL coaches in Munchak
to draft his own-linemen using high draft picks is not your solution.

What's your solution besides,
"I'm sure glad you're not the GM"?

[mozzerpete]

I suppose I just have a different definition of “spoiled”.

To me, being spoiled is being unaccepting of something that is actually acceptable. Perfect example is people who complained about the 2015 SB win because it wasn’t pretty enough for them. Now that’s being a spoiled fan. We won the SB and it still wasn’t good enough.

Recognizing this team is not a good team and hasn’t been for several years isn’t acting spoiled IMO. I’m simply pointing out that this is a losing team and has been for a while now.

Call it what you want. It’s simply a difference of opinion. I’m just not going to admit to being something that I truly believe is an incorrect assessment. Of course we all prefer winning over being a laughing stock. Duh. It doesn’t make me a spoiled brat to say I’m not going to accept terrible. Being spoiled is saying I won’t accept acceptable.

Looking at the definition of spoiled,
it's clear we've all taken liberties with its use and meaning.

I think you and I are more alike than different for whatever that's worth.

Losing for me is unacceptable.
Changes need to be made but who is in charge
and what can we really do
besides vent on this board?

[58Miller]

You cannot deny that it could possibly fix our OL issues for our next QB.

But I understand your position,
allowing one of the greatest OL coaches in Munchak
to draft his own-linemen using high draft picks is not your solution.

What's your solution besides,
"I'm sure glad you're not the GM"?

I doubt anyone on these boards could be a GM
Drafting 4 olineman isn’t a bad idea if we hit on them but as much as everyone thinks they know finding players in college who can play in the nfl isn’t easy.
Most college offenses don’t run schemes that translate well in the nfl.

[RocketArm006]

Looking at the definition of spoiled,
it's clear we've all taken liberties with its use and meaning.

I think you and I are more alike than different for whatever that's worth.

Losing for me is unacceptable.
Changes need to be made but who is in charge
and what can we really do
besides vent on this board?

I agree we are similar in our thinking. Message boards should be about sharing and debating ideas rather than fighting to the death about who’s opinion is correct.

You’re right that we, as fans, have no other recourse other than venting on a message board. I can’t actually do a darn thing other than share my philosophy and preferences on the crazy ol interwebz.

Cheers!

[58Miller]

I agree we are similar in our thinking. Message boards should be about sharing and debating ideas rather than fighting to the death about who’s opinion is correct.

You’re right that we, as fans, have no other recourse other than venting on a message board. I can’t actually do a darn thing other than share my philosophy and preferences on the crazy ol interwebz.

Cheers!

fans venting especially our fan base is good.

What isn’t good is when venting turns into untrue claims like:
“Flacco caused all the sacks“
“Elway is telling Fangio who to play”
“ lock would have played better “ he isn’t even a available to play
“Elway wasn’t the reason we won SB 50”
“ Elway let Wade walk” ( Wade wanted to be with his daughter in LA)
“ we need to fire Elway for (no name provided just some guy that the other 31 teams don’t know about)

I am crushed by our team right now, we’ve been bad and don’t look to be getting better anytime soon, but I refuse to state things that are not facts or aren’t backed by facts.

[GiddyupGetEm]

fans venting especially our fan base is good.

What isn’t good is when venting turns into untrue claims like:
“Flacco caused all the sacks“
“Elway is telling Fangio who to play”
“ lock would have played better “ he isn’t even a available to play
“Elway wasn’t the reason we won SB 50”
“ Elway let Wade walk” ( Wade wanted to be with his daughter in LA)
“ we need to fire Elway for (no name provided just some guy that the other 31 teams don’t know about)

I am crushed by our team right now, we’ve been bad and don’t look to be getting better anytime soon, but I refuse to state things that are not facts or aren’t backed by facts.

That is a reasonable position. But the obvious retort is: what facts must be present to conclude Elway needs to go?

[58Miller]

That is a reasonable position. But the obvious retort is: what facts must be present to conclude Elway needs to go?

I don’t have any facts. I would keep him as the face of the organization out of respect but make it clear Peters with the help of a staff he hires is going to provide Fangio and Scangerello the pieces they need to improve their sides of the ball.

We have one of the smaller scouting departments in the NFL.

Elway has drafted players in some cases on guys his coaches wanted. Example Bill Killarney loved Adam Gotsis, Mike McCoy pounder the table for Garrett Bolles.
Makes sense for a GM to give his coaches or chefs the ingredients that they ask for, unfortunately for him he gets all the blame when they don’t workout.

The team has done better by drafting leaders the last couple drafts.

[GiddyupGetEm]

I don’t have any facts. I would keep him as the face of the organization out of respect but make it clear Peters with the help of a staff he hires is going to provide Fangio and Scangerello the pieces they need to improve their sides of the ball.

We have one of the smaller scouting departments in the NFL.

Elway has drafted players in some cases on guys his coaches wanted. Example Bill Killarney loved Adam Gotsis, Mike McCoy pounder the table for Garrett Bolles.
Makes sense for a GM to give his coaches or chefs the ingredients that they ask for, unfortunately for him he gets all the blame when they don’t workout.

The team has done better by drafting leaders the last couple drafts.

I still don’t understand why fans think the 2019 draft class was good. Dalton Risner looks good. The others are underperforming. But what facts you basing that comment on?

[58Miller]

I still don’t understand why fans think the 2019 draft class was good. Dalton Risner looks good. The others are underperforming. But what facts you basing that comment on?

So draft classes are now graded after 7 games?
Your right the draft cannot be called a success yet.
Fant has struggled, I see the talent, if he can fix the drops he’s getting open.

Dremont Jones is contributing enough he has benched Gotsis.
Justin Hollins has got playing time as well.

Lock is on IR so we still don’t know.

Winfree has been disappointing

I can see Lock, Risner, Fant, and Dremont all being future starters on this team by the end of next year. Winfree and Hollins giving us depth.

Guess we won’t know for a couple years.

[JvDub95]

I still don’t understand why fans think the 2019 draft class was good. Dalton Risner looks good. The others are underperforming. But what facts you basing that comment on?

Maybe some fans like Fant and Lock and the upside of Hollins and Winfree?? So many other fans want every rookie to be great right out of the gate and don't understand it takes TIME to get to that pro bowl level. CHJ wasn't as good as he is without having time and tutelage. Offensive players require a longer learning curve, that's not just opinion that's fact.

[58Miller]

Maybe some fans like Fant and Lock and the upside of Hollins and Winfree?? So many other fans want every rookie to be great right out of the gate and don't understand it takes TIME to get to that pro bowl level. CHJ wasn't as good as he is without having time and tutelage. Offensive players require a longer learning curve, that's not just opinion that's fact.

John Elway got benched as a rookie,
Shannon Sharpe took a couple years to develop
TD was gonna get cut until his ST play in Japan in the preseason.

Look at the Chargers they gave up on Brees and drafted Rivers instead of building around Brees. If you draft a player you gotta give them time to develop.

[beastlyskronk]

I still don’t understand why fans think the 2019 draft class was good. Dalton Risner looks good. The others are underperforming. But what facts you basing that comment on?

How can you say it’s bad before they get time to develop?

[JvDub95]

John Elway got benched as a rookie,
Shannon Sharpe took a couple years to develop
TD was gonna get cut until his ST play in Japan in the preseason.

Look at the Chargers they gave up on Brees and drafted Rivers instead of building around Brees. If you draft a player you gotta give them time to develop.

Perfect examples

[GiddyupGetEm]

How can you say it’s bad before they get time to develop?

I am not saying it is bad. I am responding to others who say it was a strong draft class. I have always said you can’t get a full grade for two seasons. But so far people claiming 2019 is a good draft class are basing it entirely on Dalton Risner starting (which is good for a second rounder). Everything else has been expected performance or underperformance.

My point, there isn’t enough performance yet to say it is a successful draft class.